• danielbln@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    I think burkinis are dumb, personally, but I don’t give a damn what people wear. This is just typical ingroup-outgroup postering fueled by a proto fascist government, standard stuff really. Also, hygiene? Bro, it’s the ocean, a layer of clothing extra ain’t gonna make a difference.

    • starlinguk@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Burkinis are great for anyone wanting to protect their skin without reapplying SPF 50 every 2 hours.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Exactly, they are really practical and they allow more people to enjoy the beach.

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Great marketing argument to sell freedom suppressing items. What’s next? Winter is cold and burkas are great at keeping you warm?

          • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Are scarfs “freedom suppressing items” too? Beanies? A burkini is literally just a wet suit with an overskirt & hijab (although most diving suits also have head coverings). Comparing that to a burka is bonkers and you know it. The idea of something suppressing freedom that is worn out of their own free notion is completely ridiculous. Telling others what to wear is exactly the problem here, and that goes in both directions.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              No religion is demanding that women specifically wear scarfs or beanies. Denying that this mandate (burkinis and other items) is a religious one, wose ultimate purpose is to separate women from men is at least a denial, at most a support for totalitarian propaganda

              • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                What do you think a hijab is? The whole point of it is to be covered, not to be pedantic about it, like you are right now. The difference is whether someone dictates you to cover up, or whether you cover up on your own free will. And guess which one is freedom of choice?

                • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  A hidjab serves the same purpose as the burkini, to artificially differentiate women from men and create a segregated society where women have fewer rights. Individual choice or not, the end result is the same.

                • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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                  1 year ago

                  I’ve seen freedom of choice when a social group pushes their norm on everyone. Either you carve or you leave. This is a very powerful tool to impose norms on people, women particularly. What freedom of choice do you have when you are a 15 yo girl with parents, brothers, cousins, etc who tell you that you have to wear “modest” clothing (fuck that phrase by the way, are men modest with their shorts and t-shirts?)? Either you carve or you break with your social group.

            • livus@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              It’s not neoprene, it’s made of the same stuff swimsuits are made of. It just keeps the sun off more parts of you.

                • livus@kbin.social
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                  1 year ago

                  Oh okay sorry. I am thinking about getting a burkini or rash shirt/shorts now that the hole in the ozone is getting worse again, so I’m kind of focused on its practical properties.

          • CaptFeather@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Lmao. How is it freedom suppressing if they choose to wear it? Look, in my opinion all religions are made up nonsense anyway (especially Christianity) but people are allowed to believe what they want and as long as they’re not harming others then what the fuck does it matter? You make it sound they’re trying to force nonmuslims to wear their outfits, which they are not. Meanwhile, at least in the US, God is thrown in our faces every which way. It’s in our fucking pledge of allegiance. I’d say that’s much more freedom suppressing than some women wearing burkinis at a beach. Plus most muslims I’ve met are wonderfully open and lovely people compared to nasty bigots in Christianity.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              I am not going to argue which religious group is better than the others. In my view, they all support fairy tales and want others to respect or even support these tales.

          • livus@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            I’m sorry but it’s silly to suggest that someone who chooses to buy an item of clothing is magically having their freedom suppressed by it. That’s not how any of this works.

            If we get a hot summer this year I will most likely wear a rash shirt or burkini. New Zealand and Australia have the highest skin cancer rates in the world, because we live next to the hole in the ozone.

            The hole opened early this year, it will be bigger than usual.

              • livus@kbin.social
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                1 year ago

                The burkini was invented in Australia to help people integrate into Australian culture. Interesting article here.

                The male equivalent is the rash shirt and pants. All these things are becoming more common for people to wear because of melanoma.

                If I choose to cover up for whatever reason, that’s my choice and it isn’t anyone else’s business.

                I don’t even know where you’re going with this.

          • Ooops@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            As these things were invented and trademarked in Australia and nearly half of them are bought by non-muslims for exact that reason, it is indeed great marketing.

            And you are just spouting none-sense…

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Winter is cold and burkas are great at keeping you warm?

            I mean if someone wears a burka for that reason who are you to tell them no?

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              Of course, then why don’ men wear them, if burkas are not a tool to separate people based on their genders and establish a segregated society where people of different gendes have diferents rights?

              • rbhfd@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Why don’ men wear skirts or dresses?

                If you are arguing that anyone should be able to wear whatever they want, regardless of gender or religion, I agree with you. But I know that’s not what you’re saying.

      • DessertStorms@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        This.
        Also, these men trying to dictate what women wear never seem to consider just how uncomfortable they make us in public spaces and that many (of all, if any religion) choose to cover up to avoid their gaze (as well as other reasons). They also never seem to have an issue with nuns… 🤔🤔🤔

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Catholicism had its fair share of totalitarian rules. Europeans fought back for 200 years in order to free themselves from their freedom suppressing ideology. Nuns attire serves the same purpose of oppressing women and I holdbthemnin the same contempt.

            • eltimablo@kbin.social
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              1 year ago

              Of course it doesn’t, because that would involve @henrivolney, a man throwing a tantrum over women choosing to wear a bathing suit, being capable of critical thinking.

            • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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              1 year ago

              In a way they do. Their costume is a way to say that they put their life under the authority of a fictional character. The difference is that monks, Christians, Buddhists or Muslims, live apart from society in monasteries. Hidjabs and burkinis are a way to separate women on a daily basis among their secular peers, inside their social fabric.

    • DarkThoughts@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      They look like derpy wet suits. Although some are definitely worse looking than others.
      Hygiene is indeed a weird argument when you swim in a giant fish toilet.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        The hygiene part made me laugh, given the photo. That beach is full of children most likely peeing in the water and there’s a container ship in the distance, discharging god knows what into the sea.

        Someone whose swimsuit has a bit more material in it is not a threat.

          • livus@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            Now that you mention it, I do myself, but not if there are people nearby.

            That beach looks like a hellscape to be honest, there are just way too many people there. I bet the water has things like sticking plasters floating in it.

    • Ataraxia@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I just stay out of the sun. As an ignorant Italian in my youth I already caused who knows how much damage being taken to the beach by my parents all the time. I will cover up and wear a very large brimmed hat but mostly just stay indoors. Fuck cancer.

  • livus@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    “How dare muslims tell women what to wear, we want to be the ones who tell them what to wear.”

    • Fazoo@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Pretty much my thoughts. Who the hell is gate keeping a public beach? Europeans are whacked out. Banning burkinis was beyond moronic, and now this?

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        I don’t think this is about “Europeans” so much as it’s about ignorance.

        Europeans actually working in the space of migrant women’s human rights have pointed out that mainstream society imposing restrictions on their clothes just makes it harder for them to participate in social spaces and be part of the wider society.

    • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      Europeans have every right to fight a totalitarian ideology that is actively trying to destroy their chore values. Also, a majority of Muslims don’t wear burkinis.

      • livus@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        This is not how you do that.

        Being authoritarian about other people’s clothing is not a modern European core value.

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          That’s why I am not advocating for a ban, simply pointing that it is a tool to spread a totalitarian ideoligy

          • livus@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            It’s different things to different people. Banning it is authoritarian.

        • kayjay@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          The one Islamic tenet I can get behind. No more washing dishes! Death to the act of taking out the trash!

        • HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          Not sure if you are joking, not sure if people who were run over in Nice or blown up in Madrid would find it funny either

      • Ooops@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Europeans have every right to fight a totalitarian ideology that is actively trying to destroy their chore values.

        Which I will do by blocking you for that piece of right-wing totalitarian idiological propaganda bullshit…

  • dan1101@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    This is just prejudice mixed with ridiculousness. Yes covering head to toe seems weird based on western culture. But it doesn’t hurt anything at all, there are certainly no hygiene issues. Do these people know what’s in the ocean? Everything, that’s what, you name it, it’s in there. A bit of cloth isn’t going to affect the ocean .00000000000001%.

    • zephyreks@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      Except… That’s not how the ocean works? There are localized effects to pollution. You can test this by spilling oil in your nearest ocean. Watch how it disperses, and watch how it doesn’t actually disperse that far away from you because of currents and whatnot.

      Not justifying the OP, but your statement is really inaccurate.

      • RickyRigatoni@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        You can test this by spilling oil in your nearest ocean.

        Okay, but I’m telling the authorities it was your idea.

  • argv_minus_one@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    Funny. Normally right-wingers are trying to force women to wear more clothing. These same knuckle draggers were no doubt beside themselves in outrage when the bikini was first invented.

  • emptyother@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    When did beachwear rules become more than “if you are of age, cover your private parts (unless its a nudist beach)”? What the age is and what “private parts” mean changes from culture to culture, of course.

  • Imp3riaLL@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Hey guys, hey, guys, guys hey.

    Maybe, hear me out guys.

    Maybe we should, guys, maybe we should stop fighting amongst ourselves and all turn our hatred and frustrations to the ones actually making our lives harder?

  • Chipthemonk@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Burkas need to go. Women should have equal rights to men. Modern Islam interpretations don’t believe in equal rights and many women are forced to cover up. Fuck that. As more people come into the west seeking something better, they need to abandon some of their culture that is retrogressive. Burkas as retrogressive. It’s weird how many in the west, particularly on the far left, think it’s important to maintain burkas. I think a person should be able to wear whatever they want, fundamentally, but I’m confident that many of these women didn’t choose to cover up their whole life.

    • lukzak@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I know it’s just an anecdote, but I’ve know quite a few Muslim women that prefer to wear it. I’ve also met many who don’t like to wear them. Is it really fair to ban it for the ones that actually choose to wear it?

      Women choosing to dress conservatively isn’t exactly something foreign to Italians. Let’s not forget that nuns also wear very similar clothing and cover their hair. That’s not so different from a hijab.

      • hydroptic@sopuli.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Banning the burqa is limiting agency just as much as mandating it. Yeah, I think veiling etc. is honestly a stupid and ridiculously misogynistic custom, but I don’t think the fix is just another rule to limit women’s autonomy, but in a different way than before.

      • Chipthemonk@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        I’m happy to ban religious veils like nun hats (whatever they are called) and burkas/burqas as problematic religious symbols of misogyny. These religious relics are embedded deep into a culture and that part of the culture is misogynistic and discriminatory.

        I don’t know, but I would bet many of the women that “prefer” wearing them prefer it because they believe they would be shunned otherwise from their support system. They “prefer” it in part because they don’t know anything different, and their own community has enforced it as soon as they went through puberty. What does it even mean to prefer something when you haven’t ever experienced not wearing it for an extended time without all your local support group shunning you? Is that really a preference?

        But you can’t tell me these things are always comfortable. They look miserably uncomfortable in many situations and must cause a lot of undue heat and such. But the culture that forced these women to wear them runs deep. That part of culture needs to be eradicated.

        • ricecake@beehaw.org
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          1 year ago

          We should also ban long hair.

          I’m sure plenty of women only prefer to have long hair because they think they would be shunned or stan out if they cut it short.

          I’m all for people getting to wear their hair like they want, but I’m confident that many women would actually prefer to wear their hair short, and so can’t be trusted to make that choice for themselves or express an honest opinion about it.

          The first step in women’s liberation is making it clear that they lack agency and that other people know what’s best for them.

  • Riskable@programming.dev
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    1 year ago

    Wisdom: If you’re the only one wearing a burkini you’re the immodest extremist in the mix drawing attention to yourself.

    The definition of “modest” changes over time and is highly cultural and situational.

    • EnderWi99in@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Harassing a woman to dress like everyone else as to avoid attention is no better than telling a woman what she has to wear. You’re literally just doing the exact same thing as is done to these women but in the reverse. Just let people wear what they want to wear.