- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
You must log in or register to comment.
aren’t those “killed by communists” lists tend to include the Nazis killed in ww2? kind of dishonest.
The author of the black book of communism tended to write include even people who stubbed their toe as “victims of communism” yea.
kicks nightstand “curse you Marx”
That author was so dubious that even two other co-authors of the book later denounced it.
That is one of the more honest examples of what they do.
You want dishonest?
They count the difference between expected birthrate and actual birthrate.
War causes people to have less babies? Each baby not born = 1 death caused by communism.
Worse then dead, they never were.
it’s interesting how anyone who dies in a communist country (even not being born there counts) is considered “death by communism”, but then ignore the same from non communist counties.
kind of dishonest on their part…
Better sex education, access to contraception/abortion, and generally women having more control over when they have children/how many children they want to have under socialism was claimed to have taken “victims” too. Because if you’re not accidentally getting pregnant at 19 with no recourse other than giving birth to children you didn’t want, that’s oppression by a totalitarian dictator.
Also the people killed by the Nazis
Honest question: where does the 1,6 billion figure come from?
Every death by Dutch capitalism (death from the slave trade, Colonialism/Colonial wars (Oceania, Africa, …), …)
plus
Every death by British empire’s capitalism (Irish genocide, Bengal famine, Slave trade, Colonialism/Colonial wars (India, Africa, North America, South east Asia, Oceania, Middle east, …) , Opium wars, Massacres against independence movements (India, …), …)
plus
Every death by French capitalism (Colonialism/colonial wars (North America, Caribbeans, Africa, South east Asia, …), Slave trade, Massacres against independence movements (Algeria, Haiti, …), …)
plus
Every death by Belgian capitalism (Colonialism/Colonial wars (Congo, …), Slave trade, Massacres against independence movements, …)
plus
Every death by United States’ capitalism (Colonialism/Colonial wars (Cuba, Hawaii, Philipines, North America, …), Massacres against independence movements (South east Asia, Oceania, Cuba, …), Slave trade, …)
plus
Every death by German capitalism (Nama and Herero genocide, Holocaust, Slave trade, …)
plus
Every death caused by preventable starvation, lack of access to water, healthcare.
List very much non-exhaustive.
If you add it all up you easily get over 1 Billion.
The Chinese communism revolution killed a shit lot of peoples. I hate capitalism but you have to be objective .also there were less comunism countries to begin with so yeah you can do what you want with statistics but its worth nothing more than a cry/Chad wojack
Meanwhile in the real world
Between 1950 and 1980, China experienced the most rapid sustained increase in life expectancy of any population in documented global history. We know of no study that has quantitatively assessed the relative importance of the various explanations proposed for this gain in survival. We have created and analysed a new, province-level panel data set spanning the decades between 1950 and 1980 by combining historical information from China’s public health archives, official provincial yearbooks, and infant and child mortality records contained in the 1988 National Survey of Fertility and Contraception. Although exploratory, our results suggest that gains in school enrolment and public health campaigns together are associated with 55-70 per cent of China’s dramatic reductions in infant and under-5 mortality during our study period. These results underscore the importance of non-medical determinants of population health, and suggest that, in some circumstances, general education of the population may amplify the effectiveness of public health interventions.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25495509/
Should do an AMA on what it’s like to put those clown shoes on every morning.
Wow calm down you know you can talk normally to people , you dont need to insult them. Also I dont know if I m a clown but at least I know that when you tell to every peoples who make food : go make iron , it dont go very well at least on the moment. Also this does not contradict the fact that this graphic is based on data that is not worth comparing because the number of country /time spend under Communism and capitalism are completely different .
Edit: Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine so yeah 30MILLION DEATH ,more than WW2 , so I wasnt even wrong
I love how when faced with an actual paper showing how life expectancy increased, you counter with wikipedia further highlighting your intellectual prowess. The idiocy of your “argument” is to ignore what life expectancy was like BEFORE the revolution, and the fact that famines were already a common occurrence. If you spend a bit of time actually understanding the subject before opining on it, then you’ll be able to avoid making a clown of yourself in public in the future. Maybe start by actually reading the paper I linked.
Yes and whats your point 16-30million death is ok if life expectancy increase drastically? The post compare the number of death and I was talking about that . . I linked a wikipedia link just because I dont have more time to take for you but this famine is documented , its not something that is not verified . also again you are clearly arrogant so the clown that I am will not respond to your next taunt .
No, my point is that less people died overall compared to the way things were previously. It’s incredible that you’re struggling so hard to understand this. You linked wikipedia because skimming through wiki links is peak intellectual engagement for you. I’m glad to see that I won’t have to read more of your drivel going forward. Bye.
As expected this made libs here seething. Spectre haunts again lmao.
I’m getting a bit tired of seeing the communism/capitalism dichotomy. Guys let’s be pluralistic or at least see these two as a scale. There are a lot of solutions in between. Government failures exist just as much as market failures. Let’s focus on the actual root causes of our problems: externalities, rent seeking, private land ownership, too long patents, public good provision, overly complex legal system, information asymmetries in labor markets. We need unions, free health care, cheaper education, carbon taxes, land value taxes, simplified legal system that can’t be taken advantage of. Stop this capitalism vs communism bullshit. That’s not the cause of all this. Your real enemy is “rentier capitalism”.
Yeah. Historic communism has the same problem as capitalism. People in unchecked power at the top. Doesn’t matter what ideology we follow if we refuse to fix root problems.
It’s also a problem that people love to gather around either worshipping or hating a certain individual, party or political direction. I wish people would focus more on the politics beneath, facts, statistics and causality
whatever your ideology is, i don’t like it
Provided you say that russia / china are in fact not communist, what would be a real existing (or past) communist country in which a large amount of people have lived?
Provided you say that russia / china are in fact not communist
The capitalist Russian Federation was formed in the 90s (leading to the economic disaster and the desperation that allowed Putin to rise to power). Russia is literally not, in any way, a socialist state for 35 years now.
The former Soviet Union, similarly to China today, was ruled by a communist party. This means the government is trying to move towards socialism, but it does not imply they’ve established a socialist mode of production - the goal of the socialist movement. This is a big source of ambiguity and confusion when people try to argue if countries “are/aren’t socialist”, that’s too vague, and even then you can’t just tell by the current situation - a government or society can follow a school or thought or ideology (socialist theory) before it achieves its goals (a socialist mode of production). “Communist” can refer to either the social movement (SU and PRC were obviously that) or the politico-economic reality (obviously neither has achieved that, let alone a socialist MoP),
Economies like China’s are a big source of debates among socialist theorists about whether it’s state capitalist, communist, or some mixed hybrid economy. Their economy has departed from capitalism-as-we-know-it, but still have the core features (capital, private property). But, regardless of their economy, they’re clearly a party trying to achieve communism, and therefore the PRC is a communist state that hasn’t achieved a communist mode of production.
TL;DR: Until we ask more specific questions, someone can say these countries are communist, someone else can say they’re not, and both are correct answers.
There are pre-industrial societies (including some like Zapatista territory in Chiapas, Mexico with 300,000 people) which some would call socialist or even communist, but I don’t think they’re worth bringing up when discussing whole modern countries - their situations aren’t as applicable to our conditions.
Didn’t communist China have that bad habit of genocide for a while?
Man Communism needs to step those numbers up.
Maybe if they just made some kind of Great Leap Forward, they too could kill hundreds of millions.
In countries led by capitalism, you have a higher probability of documentation. With the communist nothing may be written down… even the dead Wagner soldiers in front of you in the grave may not be documented and never pay as killed. Fuck off with your filthy propaganda… Visit the mass graves in Africa etc caused by Russia!
Russia is not communist, though?
Not officially. How many of Lenin’s statutes, for example, are still standing? Where is there an effort to distance oneself from the past? Oh wait… Putin wants the former status of the USSR with Russia… what else was there, oh yes, communism.
Really funny but when Russia then accuses other countries of “Nazis Nazis Nazis” this double standard of the Russians
The most disgusting thing is the attempt to distract. Away from the facts that communism is also responsible for millions of deaths, it is just not documented there but hushed up.
there is literally nothing about current russia that could be described as communist
I think what this shows is that the idea of communism attracts the worst type of people as leaders. They enjoy being in charge of everything about a country, and/or can’t believe people don’t act the way communist theory says they would act under communism, so kill them for being corrupt traitors in order to fix the system.
