Sweden’s prime minister on Thursday said that he’s summoned the head of the military to discuss how the armed forces can help police deal with an unprecedented crime wave that has shocked the country with almost daily shootings and bombings.
Getting the military involved in crime-fighting would be a highly unusual step for Sweden, underscoring the severity of the gang violence that has claimed a dozen lives across the country this month, including teenagers and innocent bystanders.
Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson said that he would meet with the armed forces’ supreme commander and the national police commissioner on Friday to explore “how the armed forces can help police in their work against the criminal gangs.”
Law enforcement should not be militarized. Sweden just copying America’s mistakes.
Bear with me for a second. I am going to agree and disagree with you a bit.
While our law enforcement has more than its share of problems, I can’t really think of any instances where it was militarized. Believe me, I am absolutely not a fan of police overreach or some of the idiot, power hungry cops that are out there.
There were some cases where different police agencies did receive surplus military equipment, for whatever reason. Weird, sure. Militarized, not quite. One or two armored personnel carriers does not make a military out of a police department.
We do have the national guard, and they have come in handy a few times. When the US has riots, we tend to have them on a fairly grand scale. It takes some serious manpower to manage them and local police simply don’t have the resources. (1967: 12th Street riots; 82nd and 101st Airborne had to be called in after the National Guard)
Personally, I have been in ordered to shelter in place a couple of times when I lived in the D.C. area when SWAT had to lock down a block or two. Honestly, given the circumstances, I am quite glad that they had the equipment they had. The US has some really nasty places, for sure.
Should the a military be deployed because of rampant gang violence? Sure, if the manpower is needed and it’s for a short time. However, it absolutely should bring laser focus on the fact that these gangs weren’t disolved properly to begin with. If the government is being forced to apply controls to the entire population, there is something seriously wrong.
So, in short, the police shouldn’t be militarized themselves, but sometimes having additional manpower on standby can be a good thing.
It can go absolutely overboard and I think we can look at the instability in Africa right now to prove that.
Bear with me for a second. I am going to agree and disagree with you a bit.
Have an upvote for excellent Netiquette.
In Germany, the military cannot be deployed to use force inside Germany’s borders in peacetime. This is part of the constitution. The military must not be used as a domestic instrument of power. You can guess where this is coming from. As such I always view it quite critically when other countries do this, because there is definitely a danger to it.
Agreed, this is how you stop the police from militarizing themselves.
Police in America: Poopy Diaper Police in other developed countries: Fresh Diaper
As ACAB as I am, at least the units they seem they will deploy have more than a daycamps worth of training. The problem with militarized forces in these situations is it can aggravate it further if not handled properly.
I’m looking at you 1985 Phillidalphia MOVE standoff. Even though they weren’t a ‘gang’ but just defying the law together in a non-threatening way; the police took to just bombing the whole city block.
When you say they should focus on the dissolving of the gangs is exactly correct. Bringing force en masse to combat situational instances won’t stop the problem from growing, you need to strategically remove the kingpins quickly to have the lower echelon fall apart. This also in turn with leaneancy on potential criminal whistleblowers, so those associated already have a ‘scapegoat’ to get out of that environment.
I could be totally wrong though, this is all based off my perceptions as a Midwest American. I just assume the offenders are members of the same community.
All of this applies to the US. US law enforcement hasn’t been militarised since Reconstruction in the 1870s. When people say “militarised police”, they mean armored cars that can stop up to .308 rounds and carrying .223 rifles, both things that civilians can legally purchase. There is no police department in the US that has actual military equipment (outside of Coast Guard and DOD).
Agreed, this is how you stop the police from militarizing themselves.
Meh, this military stuff is such an exaggeration. It’s mainly about politicians wanting to look like they are strong and doing stuff.
The military are by law allowed to carry out some tasks the police force can. The main example that has been brought up, is to guard buildings of importance. They also have other skills when it comes to technology, and could help the police with knowledge there. That’s the gist of it.
Would not call that copy anyone’s mistakes at all to be honest.
Why not? Why shouldn’t they bring in all of the necessary equipment to ensure success and to protect themselves?
These fascist fucks love to pretend that gang violence and poverty just appear out of nowhere, and their immediate recourse is always escalation of very same state violence that generated the unrest.
It was the Social Democrats (Swedens’ biggest socialist party) who suggested the use of the military.
But of course, you have no goddamn clue as to what the hell you’re talking about and your ignorance shows.
And anyone up voting these sentiments: the issue is more complex, and please read up on the issue and build a complete picture.
“Socialists” can be fascists too, if they’re using government violence to quell dissent caused by government failure.
Yeah ok but these aren’t fascists numbnut
“Socialists” can be fascists too, if they’re using government violence to quell dissent caused by government failure.
Are you suggesting that Socialdemokraterna is a fascists organization!?
Lmao, get out if here just stfu.
Are they using violence to quell dissent generated from their failure to adequately represent their population? Your answer is the same as mine, if you’re honest.
No. So what in the goddamn hell are you talking about?
I mean the “venstre” party in Denmark are also teetering close to far right idealisms as well? The vitriol in your comment seems wildly misplaced for something that could have been otherwise politely explained.
What is causing this rise in Sweden? I’m not really up to speed on Swedish news or politics.
The most recent increase is from one of the largest gangs splintering. Different groupings and gangs are attacking each other and each others families, trying to gain power. Is what the news seems to say.
On the larger scale, if you look to scientists, criminologists, and not politicians, there are a lot of contributing factors. Hardest anti-drugs laws in Europe, more or less, failing school systems, failing integration, gentrification. All contribute to create a high risk high reward enviornment that seem worth it to a lot of people compared to a more ordinary life.
I think your comment has been the most helpful so far. I had no clue that Sweden had strict drug laws. Thanks for the reply!
I wonder why the headlines seem to focus on Sweden right now when the other countries of western Europe seem to have similar issues right now.
Highest anti-drug laws? In Sweden??
The entire shtick of this story is that Sweden is one of the most lenient when it comes to policing, and one of the most generous when it comes to social safety net, and it still won’t stop crime from escalating year over year
Well it’s not just that they are shooting at each other. They often force kids below the age of 15 to do the killing and they aren’t any sniper elite so to say. What I’m trying to say is that people outside of the gang world also die since the executioner some times shoots up the wrong door, or throws a grenade too close to another house so that their neighbor dies.
Sweden has accepted a LOT of refugees over the last eight years. Now 20% of the entire country is foreign born. Much higher when you include second and third generation migrants.
Unfortunately, migrants in Sweden are far over-represented in crime. Especially violent crime: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/338563093_Migrants_…
All of the bombings, for example, are gang related, and gang members in Sweden have a disproportionately foreign background.
Almost all gang members in Sweden are either 1st- or 2nd-generation migrants: https://www.gulf-insider.com/almost-all-gang-members-in-sweden-are-either-1st-or-2nd-generation-migrants/amp/
What’s clear from the data is that not all refugees commit crime at the same rate. Refugees from Vietnam, for example, committed very low crime. Ditto for Ukrainian refugees. Syrian and Somali refugees, on the other hand, have sky high crime. Sweden has accepted a lot of refugees from these regions, among others.
Over-representation in crime has a lot of reasons. Yes, one of them is the cultural dimension, but every single time these statistics are normalized for socioeconomic status, it drops immediately to levels extremely close to those of Swedes born to Swedish parents. Time and time again these statistics come to the same old boring conclusion we all know: poverty, lack of integration, having no way to enter the job market, discrimination. These are the reasons we see the results we see today.
“Immigrants” is not the reason for crime. This is flawed logic. What is the reason immigrants are overrepresented in statiscis? That’s the real question. You comment ignores what immigrants have brought to Sweden which has been extremely positive.
Immigrants in Sweden have higher education and yet only end up in low-paying jobs. . Despite these difficulties, they have in finding jobs that fit their qualification level, and as of 2020, “34 per cent of all practising medical doctors and 12 per cent of all nurses in Sweden are immigrants. Sweden’s most common profession is personal care worker or assistant nurse (undersköterska). Of all 183,000 assistant nurses, 48,329 or 26 per cent were born abroad. The most common region of origin of assistant nurses was Asia, which includes the Middle East.” (source). I work in tech and we constantly have a “shortage of talent”, and a large portion of programmers I know are non-Swedish. We could go on about this for days.
Basically, if “immigrants” in Sweden (however you may like to define it and however many people you can lump into that term) were to not go to work tomorrow, Sweden would stand still and the clinics won’t function.
Over-representation in crime has a lot of reasons. Yes, one of them is the cultural dimension, but every single time these statistics are normalized for socioeconomic status, it drops immediately to levels extremely close to those of Swedes born to Swedish parents.
Sweden studied this: https://bra.se/publikationer/arkiv/publikationer/2023-03-01-socioekonomisk-bakgrund-och-brott.html
Most people who come from a socio-economically less favourable background do not commit more crime than people who come from a more favourable background, and it also happens that people from a more favourable background do commit crime. This means that even if there is a connection between socio-economic background and involvement in crime, that connection is weak. It is not possible to appreciably predict who will commit crimes based on knowledge of people’s socio-economic background.
Instead, other risk factors have a stronger relationship with criminal behaviour. When compared with factors that research has identified as risk factors for crime, such as parenting competence, the presence of conflicts in the family, school problems or association with criminal peers, the research shows that these have a stronger connection with criminal behaviour than socio-economic background factors. The same applies to risk factors linked to the individual himself, for example permissive attitudes or impulsivity.
In other words, the cultural component is far more important than the socio-economic component. Over the decades, Europe has accepted migrants of many different cultures, and despite also being poor, many of these communities commit far less crime.
“Immigrants” is not the reason for crime. This is flawed logic. What is the reason immigrants are overrepresented in statiscis? That’s the real question. You comment ignores what immigrants have brought to Sweden which has been extremely positive.
No one is blaming all immigrants for crime. As per the data, some specific immigrants are responsible for the majority of crime, per capita.
Basically, if “immigrants” in Sweden (however you may like to define it and however many people you can lump into that term) were to not go to work tomorrow, Sweden would stand still and the clinics won’t function.
Some immigrants are doctors, and as above, no one is complaining about them. The immigrants people are complaining about are the ones committing horrific crimes. [alternative Swedish source] This is one story of thousands and thousands and thousands. That nine year old girl was left brain damaged after suffering brutal rape by a man who had recently been granted asylum.
This is the conclusion from the study you linked.
One thing I’ve seen often is that people who claim “certain types of immigrants” are problematic don’t read studies properly or cherry pick what they like.
no one is complaining about them
No, they just complain about people who look like them, have the same skin color as them, and sometimes them (by mistake, I suppose?). “No one” is a huge generalizing in this time when even the highly-skilled “right” type of immigrants are now having problems thanks to this SD rhetoric, and some are even considering leaving the country.
Unfortunately a lot of those committing those crimes now are teenagers who have lost touch with society and they are most likely Swedish citizens by now. So how do we go from here?
One thing I’ve seen often is that people who claim “certain types of immigrants” are problematic don’t read studies properly or cherry pick what they like.
I encourage you to read that paragraph again if you think it says anything other when what I have already claimed. Please pay particular attention this part: “The correlation between socioeconomic background and crime is weak”.
No, they just complain about people who look like them, have the same skin color as them, and sometimes them (by mistake, I suppose?). “No one” is a huge generalizing in this time when even the highly-skilled “right” type of immigrants are now having problems thanks to this SD rhetoric, and some are even considering leaving the country.
Well you’ll have to take it up with those alleged people. Myself and those in this post are not making that argument.
Unfortunately a lot of those committing those crimes now are teenagers who have lost touch with society and they are most likely Swedish citizens by now. So how do we go from here?
The solutions are complex, and Sweden is beginning to look to Denmark. The first step is to prevent the problem getting worse. This means halting all migration from regions where immigrants demonstrate a higher per capita rate of crime. Clearly their cultural values are incompatible with Sweden. Secondly, ghettos are causing major issues in Sweden. Denmark prevents the formation of ghettos by limiting the proportion of refugees by region in any single area. Refugees are encouraged to integrate by being placed into Danish neighbourhoods. This encourages refugees to learn the language and adopt Danish values. This is crucial for integration. Finally, more demands must be placed on refugees. In Denmark, refugees must complete gates, including learning Danish, and finding a job. There are consequences for failure to comply. Sweden has no such obligations on refugees. Or at least, they did not until recently.
Despite Sweden investing more into integration than arguably any other country on Earth, their outcomes are poor. So the issue isn’t about resources. It’s about compliance. Their method isn’t working and it’s time they start imposing obligations on refugees.
You and I read the same conclusion. You took out the single part that supports your claim and ignored the rest. The whole study is about how socioeconomic status related to crime and that the factors and explanatory models are varied with no consensus among researchers. The idea of the correlation being weak is that you cannot predict criminality risk with only socioeconomic. Instead, the chain of cause and effect is much more inderect and nuanced. Look at this paragraph:
However, a shared feature of all these explanatory models is that socioeconomic background is not in itself viewed as having a direct causal effect on the risk for criminal behaviour, but that this risk is rather affected by a chain of other factors, whose strength varies more or less systematically between individuals located at different positions along the socioeconomic scale.
You are misreading it and possibly misinterpreting what a correlation entails. If I wanted to predict the criminal risk for a person, I cannot rely on socioeconomic alone. That, however, does not mean that socioeconomic reasons don’t contribute to this, and if that was part of your conclusion then I think you are seriously misinterpreting this meta study…
Much higher when you include second and third generation migrants
Uhhh those are no longer foreign.
I didn’t call them foreign. I explicitly excluded that group from the first statement, and added the qualifier so that readers would understand the distinction. Which you appear to have.
Right now it’s an internal gang conflict that has escalated to killing relatives, and at least one mom. It’s become brutal enough to happen in the open streets in some cases, and there’s been a few unrelated innocents caught in the cross fire as well. The split seems to partly be over the use of younger and younger kids for the deeds, and the escalating brutality.
The gang in question is the Foxtrot Network led by Rawa Majid, who is funnily enough hiding in Turkey and has apparently had help by a high up turkey police official.
That’s the very quick version, but there should be quite a bit of info if you google “Rawa Majid Foxtrot”.
the swedes.
just one example: out of all european countries sweden is the least integrative with the lowest number of migrants finding a job within 15 years of living in sweden. nationalisms way got paved by the laziness of the swede who rather throws money at a problem than brains.
This was re-posted to the same community, 13 hours later, by the same person.
I prefer actual cross-posts over detached reposts, but still hope this was a mistake. It splits the comment sections.
Thanks for spotting this. Looks like the article changed its title and updated the text after I posted it the first time.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
STOCKHOLM (AP) — Three people were killed overnight in separate incidents in Sweden as deadly violence linked to a feud between criminal gangs escalated.
Hours later, one man was killed and another was wounded in a shooting in Jordbro, south of the Swedish capital.
Two gangs — one led by a Swedish-Turkish dual national who lives in Turkey, the other by his former lieutenant — are reportedly fighting over drugs and weapons.
Earlier this week, two powerful explosions ripped through dwellings in central Sweden, injuring at least three people and damaging buildings, with bricks and window sections left spread outside.
On Thursday, Anders Thornberg, the police chief, said the feud “is a serious threat to the safety and security of the country” of 10 million people that is often considered a safe place with a low crime rate.
Strömmer said that it was “not relevant to deploy the military,” but that he was prepared to listen to all parties when it comes to solving the wave of violence.
The original article contains 479 words, the summary contains 168 words. Saved 65%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Well, here comes violence against people who look brown…
Poor bastards.
Okay who the fuck downvoted you?
About twenty years ago, a black and female coworker moved to Sweden, because the culture was more accepting and offered her better work and wages. No place is safe. I’m very sorry to think of how she might be faring.
I see the Swedish experiment is going just fine
