I’m glad there were emojis in the headline so I knew how to feel about it 🥴
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“I know there’s a ton of skepticism about Meta entering the fediverse — it’s completely understandable,” Cottle says. “I do want to kind of make a plea that I think everyone on the team has really good intentions. We really want to be a good member of the community and give people the ability to experience what the fediverse is.”
If I wanted Facebook shitposts and forwards from KlanMa, I’d’ve joined Facebook. And I don’t believe Meta has good intentions, I believe they want to overwhelm the fediverse, and I believe they want to make money. Middle-manager Cottle and their team may have good intentions, but corporate certainly doesn’t, and I certainly don’t trust their users.
If I wanted Facebook shitposts and forwards from KlanMa, I’d’ve joined Facebook.
I want to connect and talk to people from the Metaverse (Facebook and Threads, is it called like that?) without using their account and applications. Meta connecting to Fediverse is a good move in my opinion and what the world needs (I’m not sarcastic at the moment). In fact, I wish every company in the world offering social media would connect to the Fediverse. We have builtin ways to block other instances if we don’t like them. Hell even Reddit should do it…
I can’t see anything good coming from a company that actively spreads hatred and racism. Most of came here to get away from reddit and I keep everyone saying fuck spez, fuck reddit but hey let’s invite someone who 100 worse than spez to the fediverse. Someone who has no morals at all, someone who admits he doesn’t care about privacy. Why? Just so that fediverse can grow? Is it really worth it? So you can speak with friends on threads? Make a threads account and use an ad blocker to talk to them.
I don’t mind bridging with other protocols like bluesky but I don’t not see any value in federsting with threads it will only fil the the fediverse with so much crap that we will not able to block it.
Well that is my opinion anyway(hi ya!) Yes, totally understandable. The thing is, I am not inviting spez or suckerburg, but the users. They don’t take control over Fediverse and we have the ability to block any instance or person we want. It’s not just that Fediverse can grow, but so that it becomes the standard protocol to communicate with others. Fediverse isn’t a specific platform.
( Edit: This paragraph is just an analogy in other areas, where bringing them together benefits the users, just so they can communicate and interact with each other. ) It’s basically asking for every game company open to cross play games or that Windows users can write with Linux users through web technology, with their favorite applications, accounts and servers.
Finally we have an universal protocol that can be adapted by anyone, similar to what HTML became for websites. I understand the concerns, and there is also a reason why I left Facebook over 10 years ago, don’t use Twitter and Reddit.
I get what you say but Facebook is full of toxic users it’s not suckerberg the problem. And defederating will not help because you will have to defenderate also with instances that want to federate with Facebook or else the messages will eventually come through. At least that how I
understand federation works. So eventually you would have to fediverses.
I would love to have a unifiying protocol but I really don’t think it will work. It will split people eventually someone will fork the protocol so that it can not federate with Facebook, splitting it.Yeah, that would zuck, if it works like this and we cannot de-federate effectively. This problem needs to be solved off course, but that is something that can be integrated later. The important part is, let the users federate if they want, let them decide. That off course should only happen if the system is working correctly (such as entirely federating, like you suggested). Edit: Too many But(t)s removed.
And if someone truly creates a fork of the protocol, then it would most probably be compatible. And you could switch to it if you truly want to. That’s the point of it, which people and we don’t get with Facebook. I do not want to use their spyware and not be part of it, but I want to talk to people using it (like family).
I am not sure it can be fixed because that is just how federation works else the activity pub would have to rewriten from scratch.
I don’t see the fork being compatible because that is the reason to fork it in the first place, people not agreeing with what should be federated or not.
I don’t think isolationism is going to help the Fediverse thrive, or that there are no worthwhile users on Facebook platforms that could be persuaded to come this way if they get to see what it’s like.
Having to deal with toxicity from that would suck, but it’s not as if the Fediverse is this pure untainted land either. Worst comes to worst, instances can defederate them.
I am not saying we should completely isolate us. As I said I open with bridging with other protocols. But I am against fedeting with Facebook because yes we are not a pure land but in comparison to the hell that is Facebook it’s better here.
Defederating with other instances can only do so much if not everyone does itI think in this discussion people aren’t putting in perspective that Facebook as a platform can suck but that doesn’t mean all their userbase is terrible and ill-intentioned. There’s a lot of different people there that could become good contributors in the Fediverse.
I don’t think we should invite Mark Zuckerberg to get the reins of Lemmy, but if some of the artists at Instagram and Threads decide that Mastodon is worthwhile, that’d be pretty good.
No we take that into perspective but the good does not outweigh the damage that all the toxic people will do.
The Fediverse has no lack of toxic people, entire toxic instances, and we can handle them just fine.
Its a double edged sword. On one hand, what you mentioned. On the other, if any other instance moderated the way Meta does they’d be siloed on the Fedi.
Agreed.
Yes. I will never trust anything that Meta or anyone associated with it say. They can try to spin whatever bullshit they like with their PR speak, but fundamentally they are out to make money.
I’m not particularly worried about it. I can block them if they annoy me. And on the bright side, their large user base may help make the Fediverse mainstream enough to topple the tech giants.
You can’t topple a tech giant with tech giant tech users. The fuck?
Network effect. Users need the ability to connect to most other users, in order for them to start leaving the tech giant.
Users need the ability to connect to most other users
They can leave meta and do that right now.
Are you sure? How does one connect to users on WhatsApp and Messenger from outside of Meta?
How does one connect to users on WhatsApp and Messenger from outside of Meta?
You mail them a fucking letter saying, “Leave meta.”
You call them on the phone and say, “Leave meta.”
You visit them in person and say, “Leave meta.”
Hack into a defunct spy satellite and carve “LEAVE META” in the countryside using its lasers.
People exist outside of meta. They breath, they eat, they shit. Find that pile of meat that exists outside of zuck’s servers and get a message to it.
Shit, how did people communicate before facebook?how did people communicate before facebook?
Depending on how far we go, they’d have a scribe write down what they wanted to say.
We don’t live in those times anymore, and a good chunk of people would sooner not talk to you, rather than move a finger to change their ways.
Hence, the network effect.
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My concern with this (and other attempts like it) is that the initial integration will of course be done with good intentions by a team who shares the values of the community. And then they will get promotions or move to other jobs within two years and leave the technology to whims of revenue-generating part of the organization who will be merciless with it.
In terms of damage to the community, it’ll be impossible to talk to the people you want to with ten thousand spamming robots separating you.
Is there a real problem there? One can always find an instance not federated with Meta.
My concern is that the toxic culture from Meta’s platforms will be imported here, and the only way to get away from it would be to not only defederate from Meta but to defederate from anything federated to Meta (essentially creating two fediverses). I hope it doesn’t come to that, but that’s my worry.
In which case you essentially return to the status quo right now, where the Fediverse is a small group of somewhat-ideological tech enthusiasts.
There’s a good argument for keeping it small and focused. Massive all-encompassing social networks are relatively new and not a good thing in my opinion.
Replace “Meta” with “Hexbear”, “Lemmygrad”, “Lemmy World”, etc., and see how the multiple fediverses are working right now.
It’s definitely a nicer experience around here if you block certain instances, I won’t mention names myself. The difference is that Meta’s instance is big enough to completely drown out everyone else which can’t be said about the above.
Can’t drown out anyone who doesn’t federate. The names are examples of shards of the current state of the fediverse; there was a website with a federation graph, that made it more visually clear; we are experiencing a “fragmented” fediverse right now, and it’s a feature not a bug.
Yeah but, we did already. Right here. I’m assuming that if you’re already a fediverse user, it’s because you left behind facebook, twitter, and the rest. They’re following us and the expectation is just that we’ll keep moving as they make the next thing shitty?
Yup, me on the fedi running away from big tech platforms, now meta stalking us even here bro wtf
Right now, sure. Will that always be the case?
Well, at least we’ve moved from “Meta is Satan! Defederate!!1!” to “They may mean well now but they’ll turn evil later.”
Well, at least we’ve moved from “Meta is Satan! Defederate!!1!”
No we haven’t. I never stopped screaming that.
I scream it now. Fuck Meta.
We who? Speak for yourself please
I think it will be very easy to find a host that federated from them, making it easy to mitigate the damage.
By moving to fediverse, we already left them behind. We’re being followed.
Meta is a shitbag company and I hope we can block their shitbag posts in our feeds.
Lemmy users be like „I fucking love decentralized freedom“, until someone joins they don’t like.
Lemmy users be like „I fucking love decentralized freedom“, until someone joins they don’t like.
No, especially when someone joins that we don’t like. The ability to defederate is the freedom that comes with decentralisation. If there were no bad actors decentralisation wouldn’t be so important.
This.
There’s no “fediverse” to join. It’s not an actual place with boundaries and codified rules, beyond those imposed by the communication protocol.
It’s a free association content sharing network, and free association includes the freedom to not associate.
free association includes the freedom to not associate.
Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the aliens campaign for the US presidency, and can’t figure out why “abortions for all” and “abortions for none” are both unpopular opinions.
In other words, it’s about freedom of choice, not mandatory association.
Absolutely. The Fediverse has some gross ass places I don’t want to touch with a 10-foot pole.
It ain’t about people they don’t like, it’s about a powerful corporation known to be abusive, psychologically manipulative and unafraid to break laws so long as it benefits them.
You wouldn’t want such an entity under your roof either
No, but I would like to bring some of my friends and family members who use Facebook over to the Fediverse, and I believe it’s easier if they can already see what it’s like.
Then give them a URL link to a good instance.
Do you really expect Threads to provide a fair, uncompromised experience of the Fediverse when it’s actively against their interests to do so?
If you think just linking an URL is enough to persuade people to join, either you are surrounded by exceptionally tech savvy people, or you never actually tried. Getting some people to make a Mastodon account is harder than pulling teeth.
But if they were already peeking from the window, maybe they just might.
You have a point Threads will definitely try to skew the experience in some way, but if they make it too bad, they will be the ones looking bad for it, because the average Meta user doesn’t even know what the Fediverse is. So they need to show some good stuff too.
And really, I don’t know who is it that y’all are imagining that dropped Facebook and Twitter for ActivityPub, but they’ll jump back in as soon as they get a whiff. I actually tried Threads. It sucks. Why would folks give up on the Fediverse for it?
Freedom doesn’t mean tolerating racism and hatred.
If I wasn’t trying to get away from Meta I wouldn’t be on fucking lemmy I’d be on facebook. The whole point of me being here is I am trying to get away from them and other big tech platforms :)
You come to the fediverse for a reason.
I don’t wanna be that guy, but Lemmy has had, and continues TO HAVE a very noticeable problem with tankies that does impact its reach. None of the people I know want to hang out here because its married to the hip with tankies.
Tell them to join an instance that doesn’t federate with tankies 🤷
Hope my and other instances will de-federate from Threads/Meta.
We don’t need that spyware giant in the fediverse…
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Thank you for sharing that link.
And man happy to be on tchncs lately! :DJesus some of the names of the blocked instances are disturbing as hell
Opt-in only?
Also only really discusses outbound federation, how is inbound content going to work?
To be fair, it is understandable decision, as it would copy and connect data / posts to other servers automatically. On the other hand most people don’t care or understand what this is about and probably never enable it. Still better than nothing in my opinion. Hopefully all new users get a notification and popup to ask if they want to join the Fediverse too. And new user account registration will probably show an option too at registration time.
Seems unlikely. This is Meta’s malicious compliance with MDA or whatever from the EU.
At what exactly do you refer to? Meta does not need to federate with the Fediverse. I am not aware of any law that would force Meta doing this.
The DMA (Digital Markets Act) has clauses that force big companies that are considered “gatekeepers” to allow interoperability with other services.
Good to know! I guess that’s why Apple is forced to communicate with Android.
Yes, also why Apple is going to allow sideloading (even though they also are complying maliciously) and also MS now allows you to uninstall Edge.
All of this, of course, only applies in the EU.
How is it “malicious”?
We don’t know yet the full answer to that but I’d say being “opt in” without any sort of prompt ( especially when every other fucking Meta feature is “opt out” ), or having unidirectional federation would qualify as malicious.
Meta will probably be pretty cautious and strict about what inbound content is allowed, since they have a global quagmire of laws and regulations to comply with and cannot just open up the firehose without significant legal risk. I’d imagine they’d only accept content from vetted instances that agree to some amount of common policy.
The whole thing is a preemptive move for EU laws requiring “gatekeepers” to allow interoperability with their ecosystem. Facebook is likely to accept any EU registered instance that is also subject to EU laws… and they may not bother with instances from regions that don’t require them to do so.
That’s the future. All networks connected, but I can control what’s in my feed.
Its basically also the past right? RSS feeds.
How do you reply to a RSS feed?
With all the hate towards Facebook, my prediction is there will be two fediverses: one that federates with Facebook and the other that doesn’t. We’ll see how that plays out.
Well, the ones that federate with Meta will still be federated with those who don’t. So it’s really no different from what the Fediverse is already: Fragmented by design.
What I mean is that non-facebook fediverse will also transitively disconnect from facebook: if you federate with facebook or allow any instance in your federation network to connect to facebook --> disconnect. Effectively 2 networks.
There are well over 10 “fediverses” already:
- Federates with Lemmygrad
- Federates with Hexbear
- Federates with LemmyWorld
- Federates with NSFW
- Federates with hardcore NSFW
- Federates with piracy
- … etc.
One more won’t change a thing, it’s working as intended.
You may have a point 🤔 Hadn’t considered that. Well, it’s fine. That’s the freedom provided by the protocol. Might as well embrace it.
I sincerely hope beehaw doesn’t federate with Meta. They’re pure evil
Exactly, let’s not repeat the history.
The so great (at the time) Google that was so friendly to users (at the time), destroyed Jabber/XMPP that way.
This will probably be enough for me to convince my organisation to quit Twitter and spin up their own Mastodon instance if Incan te them that they will be able to reach Threads users
I feel like its worth pointing out other Mastodon users can block an entire ActivityPub domain if they want. This could be a problem, but you have a great deal of control in how much reach Threads has on your account and instance.
I have accounts on both Threads and Mastodon and will keep using both.
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During the FediForum conference on Tuesday, Meta’s Peter Cottle showed off a brief demo of how users will eventually be able to connect their accounts and posts to the fediverse.
As you can see in the video below, which FediForum shared with The Verge, Cottle can navigate to his Threads account settings and toggle on an option called “fediverse sharing.” Meta will then show a pop-up explaining what exactly the fediverse is, along with some disclaimers Meta will flag to users so they know what they’re getting into.
First, Meta notes that users will need to have a public profile to toggle on the feature, something Instagram head Adam Mosseri has already mentioned.
In other words, your post may still be visible on, say, a linked Mastodon server, even if you decide to delete it with Threads.
“I think this is a downside of the protocol that we use today, but I think it’s important to let people know that if you post something and another server grabs a copy, we can’t necessarily enforce it,” Cottle says.
The FediForum is an online event that gives developers the opportunity to show off what they’re working on in the fediverse.
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