Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.
You forgot the genocide denial as well. I don’t understand why they worship Russia like the ussr is still around.
Right? They react with appropriate frustration when someone denies the Holocaust happened, but then deny Holodomor with the exact same rhetoric as the Holocaust deniers.
Trump isn’t in power, no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion and knew exactly how it would play out. Trying to claim they are defending their right to sovereignty, which is bullshit.
No one is defending Russia or Putin? They sure as shit are trying to smoke screen it hard.
The person I replied to was talking about leftists. The only one talking about right wingers is you
The comment was about defending Russia and Putin. You said no one was, you were wrong. Right wingers are the ones doing that, so I showed receipts, to prove you are wrong. Sorry reality upsets you.
Also you literally linked a source to theconservative.com, you can’t make this stuff up.
I linked to theCONVERSATION.com. Your echo chamber reactionary thinking has you seeing things that are not there.
So yes, you CAN just make things up
Lol ok bud, ignore everything said and focus on one small thing and yell about it. You’ve convinced me lol.
It’s not one small thing, it’s lots of big things
no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion
That has to be the shortest contradiction.
Its not a contradiction, several politicians, Biden included, spoke of what would happen if the US threatened NATO expansion into Ukraine. Obama, McCain, Kerry, Nuland, and now Biden set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded. Claiming it was to protect democracy which is bullshit. If the US cared about democracy and sovereignty they wouldn’t have orchestrated a coup with the Pakistanian PM.
This war is 100% about decimating Ukraine so capitalists can go in and divide the spoils.
Sure buddy. NATO was responsible for countries wanting to join NATO to forestall Russian invasions.
NATO was also responsible for all of Russia’s other post-USSR invasions, I bet.
Life must be interesting when you don’t understand history or politics.
Straight from the horses mouth
Must be interesting when you are completely fucking clueless outside the official narrative.
I mean, you’d know lol, with an unbiased source like theconservative.com lol. The people who are defending Russia. And you’re just eating it up.
I’m betting you made a judgment based on what you thought the website was. The website was theCONVERSATION.com. But go ahead and stick to your echo chamber and stay ignorant
That’s a really round about way to show you’re defending the very things you said no one was lol.
No one wants to talk about the thousands of extra bots that reddit released during the blackout and afterwards to keep up with the illusion. A whole lot of sub users on reddit are engaging with bots. In fact, some gullible people think r/place is run by users, and not the thousands of bots run by different subs, as well as reddit admins.
Yeah, it’s so strange that people confuse you with a Kremlin bot when you repeatedly spew the same fucking bullshit talking points as the bots themselves.
When it comes to media attraction, what they call themselves (labels) don’t really matter that much. It’s the praise of strong men, authority, that crosses all mythological media systems. Be it bowing down to a burning bush story, Fox News, or Kremlin.
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
There’s no practical difference, just window dressing. They both cheer on oppression and pain for those suffering under Republicans.
And don’t even get me started on communists. Left and right authoritarians, I’ve gotten death threats from both of them. Whether it’s some leftist telling me I would “get the wall” when the Revolution comes or some fucking Republican telling me that the US was only for Christians and that they’ll go after “traitors” soon, you get to the same fucking place at the end of the day. The only real difference is that there’s far more Republicans, and they’re far more organized than left authoritarians.
Is your issue with anarchists or authoritarians? I somehow doubt that anarchists are sending you death threats. Nor do I see anarchists kneecapping the Democrats. Anarchists don’t want a state, though many do vote for the moderate right-wing (not “left leaning”) Democrats simply because they think it’s the right thing to do.
Your sweeping generalizations and attempts to paint all of us with the same brush betray your own lack of knowledge, but don’t worry, I’m sure the planet will last long enough for the Democrats’ slow incremental change, and I’m sure my family in border camps are very thankful to be in liberal concentration camps.
Democrats aren’t right wing, sorry. Conservatives aren’t reformers.
the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
I might be misunderstanding you, so I apologize if that is the case, but if you are referring to the Democrats they are far from left leaning. They aren’t even center leaning.
You can’t even say they have a better track record than the Republicans. They bomb countries as much (or in recent years even more) than the Republicans. They advocate for wars. They fund ICE even more than the Republicans. They stand up just as much for reproductive rights (read: not at all). They just do all of it while waving a rainbow flag.
I really hope you meant the Greens or the CPUSA; which have their own issues but are certainly more left than either the Democrats or Republicans.
Link to them bombing more than Republicans? And also several blue states have abortion rights and protections while the red states have none.
Whatever lies you need to tell yourself, I guess.
An anarchist is fighting against military/police. A fascist belongs, or wants to, to military/police. An anarchist is fighting against people who hold some power. A fascist is fighting against people because of their religion or origins. An anarchist likes to vote and discuss. A fascist likes to follow orders. An anarchist tends towards decentralization. A fascist tends towards centralization.
This are only some differences but spoiler alert : anarchist and fascist are not the same. They do not act the same way, they do not think the same way.
I understand that you hate them both, it is your point of view, and it’s okay. But please, follow my advice : avoid trying to justify it with sentences as universal and strong as “There is no practical difference”, it makes the whole thing ridiculous.
In the end, saying there is only “one viable […] party”, and even believing in a party itself, are also part of the problem imo. If you truly believe in this sentence, no wonder why you dislike anarchists and why they probably dislike you. But does it imply that either you or them are fascistic ? And if yes, did you considered that it could be you, who are defending a single “viable” party as the only solution, hating on every other option ?
If an “anarchist” is trying to undermine any politician with a realistic chance of making office who is at all sympathetic to efforts at police reform, they’re not fighting the police, they’re fighting reform efforts.
Don’t lump anarchists with way too online MLs.
That’s why I am specifically criticizing people who spend all their time undermining the Democrats rather than trying to engage in real activism
I will repeat this until the heat-death of the universe:
Personal liberty and self-determination are assailed by many threats: the theocrats, nihilists, corporatists, fascists, and so-called “collectivists”. They all claim to be the true authoritative “voice of the people”.
Extreme authoritarian “leftists”, A.K.A. “tankies” (i.e., apologists for Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the CCP, the DPRK, Fidel Castro, Che Guevara, Xi Jingping, etc.), are threats to a free, egalitarian, and open society, are just as violently authoritarian as their religious, corporatist, and fascist competitors, and should be treated with the contempt, distrust, and ridicule they deserve.
They claim to speak and fight for the proletariat, promising a new utopia, never before seen, once their revolution executes the last “class-traitor”. In practice, once they’re finished with “seizing the means of production”, they’ll never relinquish control and become the new ruling class. Beware of their cults. Understand what they really are; power over everything and everyone, forever, is what they seek. They want you either as a true believer (a willing pawn) or dead, just like all of the other supposedly benevolent dictators who promised utopias throughout history.
They’ll assume the mantle of an enlightened elite post-revolutionary administration to guide the proletariat to their promised utopia of “each according to their ability, to each according to their need”. In practice, "the party leadership needs the most, because they’re obviously the most able” in reorganizing the economic and political structure of society. The utopia of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” will never exist, only the dictatorship of the “revolutionary party”. Repression and execution await those who question their claims and decisions. These supposed champions of labor are really harbingers of death - of the mind and the body politic.
They’re akin to the pigs in Orwell’s Animal Farm, the loudest voices in the revolution, usurpers of a righteous cause, but a bit “more equal” than everyone else after the farmer is done away with. Fortunately, the pigs, like the farmer, got their comeuppance in the end of the story.
Make these pigs squeal.
Left is literally the opposite of authoritarian. You seem to be conflating a whole lot of ideas and terminology here. You sound like an ideological leftist who has been confused by the right’s deliberate language-muddying.
Left is egalitarian. That takes many different forms: socialism, communism, direct democracy, anarchism, etc.
Right is authoritarian. That also takes many different forms: monarchy, feudalism, oligarchy, corporatism, etc.Authoritarianism (or vertical/hierarchical power structure) is THE defining characteristic of the right. “Auth-left” is Doublethink; an oxymoron meant to distract from the fact that wealth and power are one and the same.
State-imposed collectivism is left-leaning authoritarianism. It is the authoritarian and non-voluntary implementation of leftist economic policy. It is an extremely simple concept that I cant fathom how you aren’t able to grasp.
This is very easy. I provided the definitions of left and right.
Think about what you mean by “the state”. Which definition does it fit?
Um, “the state” is whatever the government is. Are you actually suggesting that True Anarchy is the only leftist organizational structure that can fit the definition of “Leftist”? Because that’s what you are alluding to.
Also, you absolutely did not provide the “definitions of left and right”. These definitions aren’t even universally agreed upon. I am assuming you mean “Liberalism and Conservatism” when you say “left and right”, and it is just untrue that Liberalism is incompatible with authoritarianism, and it is equally untrue that conservatism must be accompanied by authoritarianism. For example, Libertarianism is a patently right-leaning ideology that completely rejects authoritarianism. At the same time, communism is state-imposed redistribution of economic means; that is 100% undeniably a left-leaning ideology that accepts and implements authoritarianism.
Are you actually suggesting that True Anarchy is the only leftist organizational structure that can fit the definition of “Leftist”?
I provided specific examples, as well as clear, concise definitions.
Also, you absolutely did not provide the “definitions of left and right”. These definitions aren’t even universally agreed upon.
You can brush up on the origins and meaning of the left-right spectrum here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum
I am assuming you mean “Liberalism and Conservatism” when you say “left and right”
I do not, because those are not the same thing in the same way buttered toast is not a pizza. Liberalism is “centrist”. It appears egalitarian at first glance, but if focuses heavily (if not entirely) on means rather than ends, allowing for (and even encouraging) consolidation of wealth & power; that is: rightward drift. “Conservatism” is a relative term, not an absolute.
Libertarianism is a patently right-leaning ideology that completely rejects authoritarianism.
Libertarianism’s origins are leftist/anarchist, but the term itself has recently been co-opted by rightists and liberals the same way authoritarians always always co-opt leftist terms.
communism is state-imposed redistribution of economic means; that is 100% undeniably a left-leaning ideology that accepts and implements authoritarianism.
That is not the definition of communism. Regardless of what you think about Marxist concepts themselves (or their feasibility) Marxism/Communism requires the “withering away of the state.” So long as there is entrenched leadership, that society is not leftist in the same way the Nazis were not socialist, and Republicans are not “pro-life”. And yes, that means the USSR was right wing, not left. At no point did the USSR meet the criteria or definition of communism. The definitions lead to the label, not the other way around.
Regardless of what you think about Marxist concepts themselves (or their feasibility) Marxism/Communism requires the “withering away of the state.” So long as there is entrenched leadership, that society is not leftist in the same way the Nazis were not socialist, and Republicans are not “pro-life”. And yes, that means the USSR was right wing, not left. At no point did the USSR meet the criteria or definition of communism. The definitions lead to the label, not the other way around.
I have disagreed with almost everything you have said, and am likely a member of the group you are railing against in this discussion. However, IMO you are spot on here.
Thank you for that. Keep this in mind though: I’m just saying the same thing over and over in different ways each time.
“Auth-left” is just another kind of “both-siding”. It’s rightists claiming that other rightists are actually leftists so that the masses will be too afraid to consider actual leftist proposals seriously.
Leftist/egalitarian systems tend to be inherently unstable because of the existence of human greed. Greed will always lead to certain people trying, and succeeding, to hoard wealth and power for themselves. I refer to this as “rightward pressure”. The trick is pushing the dial as far left as possible while ensuring it remains stable and preventing rightward drift.
Lenin and other revolutionaries recognized this catch a long time ago, and so tried to justify “temporary tyranny” as a means to establish a leftist ends. Lenin didn’t have a lot of success with that in life; then upon Lenin’s death, Stalin seized power and never let it go… meaning that for all the suffering and bloodshed, Lenin and his Bolsheviks merely traded one right wing dictator/Tzar for another. Same story in China… And North Korea… And Cuba…
On the flip-side you have liberalism; which are leftist means that deliberately ignores “rightward pressure”, eventually resulting in rightist ends… as wealth and power accumulate and snowball for a few at the expense of the many (e.g. “late stage capitalism”).
So the question is: given that people are selfish and greedy, and any rightward movement cannot be safely considered temporary; how do we reach leftist ends while using only leftist means?
My personal stance? Democracy. We use Democracy to bolster Democracy a bit at a time… and the first thing we need to do to make that possible in implement a very aggressive progressive taxation system that caps how much wealth (and therefore power) any one individual or entity can control. Until we can fix that one thing, the politicians will continue to control the public instead of the other way around. That is the essence of leftism.
No, you provided head canon which would get you a failing grade in a freshman political science course.
Authoritarianism (or vertical/hierarchical power structure) is THE defining characteristic of the right. “Auth-left” is Doublethink; an oxymoron meant to distract from the fact that wealth and power are one and the same.
This is so incredibly naive. Stalin? Mao? Evil authoritarianism comes in all flavors left and right. If you truly believe leftists aren’t capable of evil you need to study more history.
So close. You are soooo close to getting it. Just a little further…
MLs and having a cringeworthy enlightenment complex - name a more iconic duo.
Not a Marxist, but I won’t tolerate deliberately lying about terminology or muddying language. That’s a bad faith authoritarian/rightist tactic and I won’t let it slide.
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Authoritarianism is literally a defining feature of communism. Redefining terms to escape the reality of what ideologies look like when implemented is just dishonest.
Communism literally - by Marx and Engel’s own definition - requires the “withering away of the state”. As the creators and originators of the very concept of “communism”, can you name one society that has met their criteria or achieved the goals laid out in their definition?
Yes, I understand that Marx and Engels did not have realistic political ideals and that every attempt to implement their ideology has diverged from their utopian vision into authoritarianism when reality hits that ideology. That’s the point.
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I see you moved the goal post to a different field.
If you want to criticize the specifics of Marx/Engels proposals, that is very different than - whether by ignorance or malice - outright lying about them.
I didn’t say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.
I didn’t say anything about Marx or Engels. I talked about communism.
Oh dear. 🤦🏽
What’s the difference between a fascist and an “anarchist” who does everything they can to kneecap the only viable left leaning political party in the US?
what’s the difference between a cuckold and someone who votes for racist, homophobic, classicist establishment politicians no matter what; there is no difference.
Whatever lies you have to tell to make sure America gets worse, I guess. No honest, thinking human being could think there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. That’s how we all know people like you are either useful idiots or just cosplaying Republicans.
Unfortunate and very true.
Honestly it’s exhausting to the whole lemmy experience that every time something gets even slightly political, there’s an extreme communist in the comments pushing their agenda.
I can literally say “hey man they all suck yo fuck politics am I right?” And in comes a guy who tells me I’m a Republican or Democrat or fuck America, whatever. I can even agree that the news is biased in America, and I’ll still get the same response.
It makes conversations for the average consumer on the platform unproductive at best, unsettling in its worst form.
For me it’s just the fact that people have delved so deep into their echo chambers that they’ve lost all sense of what regular people think. Like I’m fine with someone being an extreme communist, they can have that opinion, but it seems like a lot of people on here talk to other extreme communists so much that they think more nuanced communists are somehow right wing. It doesn’t matter how much you try to concede to acknowledge their viewpoint, their personal Overton windows have shifted so far that they exclude everyone but people exactly like them, and it just makes conversations impossible.
I’m convinced everyone from h*xbear is a bot. (censored b/c I don’t want any of those fuckers noticing).
We spell it X-treme communism
Tankies when you don’t want your country to fall into fascism.
The Democratic party is already a sympathizer of fascism.
I mean they said it was to ensure republican losses in the general elections, but the DNC financially supported many fascists in the republican primaries.
Just vote for the lesser of two fascisms
Now we just have to figure out which one that is
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. Bad is the enemy of good, and right-wingers are bad.
If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
i accidentally deleted my comment ahhhhhhhhh sorry for double ping
Could you explain this?
If I have a truly evil person, say a Hitler like figure. Then I have a guy who is kind of an idiot. How does voting for the slight idiot end up way worse than a guy who wants to commit genocide. The slight idiot becomes the worst evil imaginable, but how?
If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you end up with the worst evil imaginable.
But we only ever have 2 evils. There is no “other” to choose. The old folks make sure of that during primaries, they vote and they choose people who look like them and are their age, so we always end up with the 2 worst choices.
yeah, thats been going great so far
This but unironically.
Exactly.
Anarchy and Communism are not the fucking same, what a retarded meme
To anyone offended, Go watch “The Ringer”
The meme isn’t stating that they are.
Well to be clear, the “joke” is that the blue hat doesn’t know the difference.
Good luck teaching that difference to the typical 'murican
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But everyone’s mom thinks you’re super.
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The fact that your statement insults the left by calling them “shit libs” then you just call the right “right wingers” kinda indicates where you land imo.
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Horseshoe theory!
Horseshoe theory is bullshit. One side has extremists who burn down cars the other has extremists who burn people. It is not the same.
The third side has people who burn themselves.
🤔 Isn’t there a logical fallacy that addresses erroneously comparing two things in such a manner? If not, we badly need to make a new one.
Are you thinking of equivocation? The very first one here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fallacies/
No no, not that one. I think it’s like a genetic fallacy but I am not sure. It’s like when dumbasses say fighting evil is the same as being evil.
I’m quite sure it is, because equivocation often occurs by boiling down two disparate concepts to the same vague and simple description, in this case “using violence against those you disagree with”. Genetic fallacy is guilt by association.
🤔
It is called a false equivalence but you can argue that the extreme left/right are much more inclined to violence without making a false equivalence.
Ehh. There are centrists and people from other factions who support violence too, snd extremists who do not. There’s a lot of nuance in the situation
I’d argue if they are arguing for violence they aren’t centrists.
Really? The guy who thinks both sides are the same and wants them to kill each other so they’ll all shut the fuck up isn’t a centrist?
Nonviolence is not a requirement to be a centrist. Believing both the American left and right are the same or very similar, and/or believing in horseshoe theory is all that’s required.
Wish this sub would not allow politics and move the shit over to the politics meme place instead.
Politics, like it or not, is a big part of our culture. Art (memes included), comments on culture. I agree it can get exhausting, but it’s not something that we can hide from either. Personally, I prefer white quips about the subject compared to the doom scroll articles seen on political news communities.
Block the sub and find a meme community that’s sanitized to your liking.
is this you @TheObserver@lemmy.world
All the fuckin normies on lemmy.world. No piracy, no politics, no fun.
look at the responses in other fediverse instances; the no piracy, no politics, no fun crowd is the majority
No. A loud and opinionated minority does not a majority make. Most people aren’t insufferable on the internet, it’s just that those are the easiest ones to spot and the hardest ones to avoid.
See for example: the amount of American libertarians who “bow to nobody and never stop fighting for their freedom and independence” in online discussions vs the amount of people who vote for the US Libertarian Party rather than the GOP.
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Because scrolling past them is too hard?
I agree. I had Reddit filtered pretty well to avoid politics, but Lemmy has very few communities which outright ban politics which makes it very difficult to avoid. I even agree with most of the politics on here but it gets annoying and exhausting when it’s absolutely everywhere. I’ve seen the above meme like 5 times already, I didn’t enjoy it the first time and I’m sure as shit not going to the fifth.
I too hate how lemmy doesn’t censor people and communities…
Lmao that hat reminded me of this (short) video:
Edit: Piped doesn’t seem to be working? Maybe an issue with Shorts. https://youtu.be/qowJStEn534
https://piped.video/watch?v=qowJStEn534
Also check out his other shorts, he never misses, legitimately great content.
hahaha thats great
Watching communists/socialists and conservatives/fascists arguing about whose ideology is better
Grabs popcorn…
Ayyy Krolden! Long time no see, I remember you from the beforetimes! Hope you’ve been doing well!
Correct. Fake progressives who are in effect right wingers because they vote as a block continually for war and Wal street over working class people. They’re experts at gas lighting as well.
