America’s wealthiest people are also some of the world’s biggest polluters – not only because of their massive homes and private jets, but because of the fossil fuels generated by the companies they invest their money in.

  • Zippy@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    This is a piss poor metric. It is not what these people personally emit but what they emit by all the companies that they may own. Even though those companies produce products you and me consume.

    In other words if I am a massive farmer and in the ten percent wealth category, my carbon footprint includes all the food produced and you consume from my farm.

    • yogsototh@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      I feel that I see more and more articles that give the false impression that rich are the only people we should put a pressure for pollution. This will give more and more people the illusion that they can pollute because their pollution is very minor compared to the pollution of the rich.

      The reality is while richer people pollute more. The ratio of pollution between a rich and a normal person is not comparable to the ratio of the wealth difference.

      In fact, for pollution, everyone effort has a real effect.

      More precisely I read an article that made it clear that if a super rich has 100000x more money, they will pollute directly only 40x more than most people. (the number are probably wrong but the order of magnitude is correct).

      This mean that pollution is not just for the rich, but for everyone. And your personal effort count.

      • Stoneykins [any]@mander.xyz
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        1 year ago

        Pollution is a truly a systemic problem, not a personal responsibility problem, even for the wealthiest heaviest polluters. It certainly doesn’t help when people treat their surroundings like trashcans, but that will always pale in comparison to the scale of pollution produced by industry.

        The reason wealthy people are still the issue is that they have an insane overabundance of control over industry, governments, and economic systems, and that control is currently being wielded irresponsibly.

        The only way for non-wealthy people to truly fight climate change is collective action. The top 1% on the other hand could damn near personally begin reconstructing problematic parts of our polluting economic systems, but they simply aren’t motivated to do so because that wouldn’t increase their capital, at least not as much as the way they are currently behaving does. They are only motivated by increasing their wealth, apparently, based on how they behave.

        • Zippy@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          While you are correct in that they have a high level of control over industry I think you are entirely incorrect that they wield that irresponsible. In no way am I suggestion they are particularly concerned about the carbon footprint they overall create but they are extremely concerned but the profit they make. As such industry is highly motivated to be the most efficient they can. And the more efficient you are, typically the less energy you will consume per cog built.

          Ultimately it is up to us alone if we want to consume that ‘cog’ and the carbon footprint it represents.

          • Stoneykins [any]@mander.xyz
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            1 year ago

            “profit” isn’t real, it’s game that wealthy people play. It is a concept of interaction of currency-backed value that all rests on people expecting it to work and exist. They are irresponsible to prioritize endless growth of profits past the point of any perceivable benefit over things like clean air and clean water. Extremely, wildly irresponsible.

    • hh93@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      Or if I’m in the 10% bracken and have invested most of that money in the Stock-Market I’d get a fraction of the emissions of all companies in the world?

      I feel like those articles are just so people have someone else to point fingers at and feel as if they don’t have to change anything themselves.

      Sure personal responsibility alone won’t help without laws but those laws won’t happen if people show that they are behind those measures.
      I want to see a politician trying to triple the gas prices and the prices on meat and see that politician be elected.
      People really think they are existing in a vacuum and companies are only polluting for the fun of it - but don’t accept how the by far biggest contribution is the average Livestyle of everyone…

      Banning private jets and things like that is probably a good idea to get people behind you but I feel as if it’s mostly a gesture compared to a law that would slash meat consumption in half or tackle the fact that everyone sees going everywhere in their truck when biking or walking would’ve worked fine. The single person doesn’t have power but everyone together has and politicians want to get elected so they only tackle an issue when they feel the people are behind them.

      • Zippy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Thanks this is so correct. Sure the wealthiest personally have a carbon footprint that is likely a factor larger than the average person but overall they are a consist of a fraction of the population. You could eliminate every single Uber rich person and we still would be emitting nearly the same level of GHGs.

        I want to point out that the average person in Western society has a carbon footprint a factor larger that that of the average person in say China or India. And we only make up about 20 percent of the population.

        Point being if we point the finger at industry that is making products we consume, then it is a certainty global warming will only increase. The only way we can tackle this is if the average person significantly reduces our consumption. Doubling fuel prices thru taxes would be a good start. Good luck with that though. People in the US went nuts when gas hit 5 dollars a gallon last year.

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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          1 year ago

          It is not like those companies do their best to pollute the least amount possible.

          No, they rather blame the consumer and tell us we need to recycle than cut into their own profits.

          And recycling is important, but reusing and reducing are a lot more important. But those are parts corporations need to adhere to, so it is a lot less popular for some reason.

    • Jazsta@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      The study’s primary metric appears to include both supplier and producer emissions proportional to income and investments. What alternative do you suggest?

      • Zippy@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        You are responsible for the entire carbon footprint from ground to your mouth/back/use. Not the person that worked to provide it to you.

        I am not discounting the problem of wealth inequality. That is a complete seperate issue. But you don’t get to transfer your carbon footprint onto other entities because they made the product for you.

        • darq@kbin.social
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          1 year ago

          You are responsible for the entire carbon footprint from ground to your mouth/back/use. Not the person that worked to provide it to you.

          That’s an oversimplification.

          People bare responsibility for their consumption, sure. But people are also limited by their circumstances. We live in a world where alternatives often just aren’t available, and even where they are available, they are often not affordable.

          For example, blaming people for the carbon output of their car, while they exist in a country that has systemically refused to invest in public transport because of fossil-fuel industry lobbying, is absurd. Or blaming someone for choosing inexpensive but environmentally damaging foodstuffs, rather than more environmentally friendly alternatives, when they are working in a system that has suppressed wages for decades, is similarly absurd.

          This is part of why trying to individualise the blame for climate change and suggest individual actions is such nonsense. It’s just a means to maintain the status quo and do nothing to solve the problem. We need systemic change.