Tesla knew Autopilot caused death, but didn’t fix it::Software’s alleged inability to handle cross traffic central to court battle after two road deaths
Ford Pinto says what?
Boom.
Didn’t, or couldn’t? Tesla uses a vastly inferior technology to run their “automated” driving protocols. It’s a hardware problem first and foremost.
It’s like trying to drive a car with a 720p resolution camera mounted on the license plate holder versus a 4k monitor on the top of the car. That’s not a perfect analogy, but it’s close enough for those not aware of how cheap these cars and their tech really is.
It remains to be seen what hardware is required for autonomous driving as no company has a fully functioning system, so there is no baseline to compare to. Cruise (the “4k monitor” in your anaology) just had to cut their fleet of geofenced vehicles after back to back crashes involving emergency vehicles along with blocking traffic and attempting to run over things like fire hoses.
Cruise and Waymo have self-driving cars, without safety drivers, driving around cities right now.
We know what hardware it takes - More than just cameras and some premapping is required.
Did you not read the second half of my comment?
Does cutting their fleet mean they stopped operating or they reduced the size of their fleet?
One of the crashes was a car running a red light and hitting the Cruise vehicle.
It means these vehicles are still crashing even when geofenced to operate in ‘perfect’ conditions with premapped destinations. This is not a fully functional system as they can’t operate outside these city grids at low speeds in favorable weather conditions with a premapped route. Compare miles driven between Cruise and Teslas systems. One has several orders of magnitude more miles driven than the other and they’re somehow doing it without all this extra hardware.
driving as no company has a fully functioning
Mercedes made level 4.
Mercedes is level 3 only, and their system will only work in Nevada on a highway at speeds below 40MPH.
A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something
A times B times C equals X… I am jacks something something something
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don’t do one.
Woman on Plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn’t believe.
Woman on Plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.
When you’re selling a million cars, it’s guaranteed that some of them will have a missed defect, no matter how good your QC is.
That’s why you have agencies like the NHTSA. You need someone who can decide at what point the issue is a major defect that constitutes a recall.
but when it’s the software it would be the same on all vehicles more than likely
Correct. They also push updates so they know exactly what software is running.
They’ve create a chain of liability.
The big automakers better be taking notes because it they seem to be trying to follow Tesla down this legal rabbit hole
”One of the major ones”
Of course not. Fixing it would cost money.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto
The other day I said on here that self driving cars arent ready and got downvoted to fuck. This is why I said it.
Here’s how to do self driving cars in a reliable way. First, instead of cameras that try to use road markings designed for human eyes, use specially designed roads with guide rails on them to ensure it follows a safe path. Second, for added convenience, these roads could also power the cars so you don’t need to stop to charge. Then we could even connect those cars together to increase efficiency. To mitigate the cost, no individual has to own them, they can stop at fixed points to pick up and drop off passengers, charging an affordable rate for each trip, or monthly/annual passes for frequent users. Maybe we could call them trains.
Spot on.
https://www.wardsauto.com/blog/my-somewhat-begrudging-apology-ford-pinto
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-02-10-mn-1335-story.html
Two examples of the media creating a frenzy that wound up being proven completely false later.
In OP’s case, both of these drivers failed to see a semi crossing the road right in front of them even though they were sitting in the driver’s seat with their hands on the wheel. This technology certainly needs improvement, but this is like blaming every auto manufacturer when someone crashes their car while texting on their phone.
but im saving the planet and making sure elon gets a cut of my money
I remember reading about the ethical question about the hypothetical self driving car that loses control and can choose to either turn left and kill a child, turn right and kill a crowd of old people, or do nothing and hit a wall, killing the driver. It’s a question that doesn’t have a right answer, but it must be answered by anybody implementing a self driving car.
I non-sarcastically feel like Tesla would implement this system by trying to see which option kills the least number of paying Xitter subscribers.
I think the whole premise is flawed because the car would have had to have had numerous failures before ever reaching a point where it would need to make this decision. This applies to humans as we have free will. A computer does not.
Full Self Driving is such a sim name. The feature is level 2 advanced cruise control.
Yet Phoney Stark keeps on whinging about the risks of AI but at the same time slags off humans who actually know their stuff especially regarding safety.
It’s time to give up the Tesla FSD dream. I loved the idea of it when it came out, and believed it would get better over time. FSD simply hasn’t. Worse, Musk has either fired or lost all the engineering talent Telsa had. FSD is only going to get worse from here and it’s time to put a stop to it.
The article isn’t talking about FSD, these accidents are from 2019 and 2016 before public availability of FSD. Of course, “Full Self Driving” ain’t great either…
The whole article is kind of FUD. It’s saying engineers didn’t “fix” the issue, when the issue is people are using Autopilot, essentially advanced lane keep, on roads it shouldn’t be used on. It doesn’t give a shit about intersections, stop signs, or stop lights. It just keeps you in your lane and prevents you from rear ending someone. That’s it. It’s a super useful tool in it’s element, but shouldn’t be used outside of freeways or very simple roads at reasonable speeds. That said, it also shouldn’t be fucking called “autopilot”. That’s purely marketing and it’s extremely dangerous, as we can see.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
Then you should call it driver asist, not autopilot.
Also Tesla’s advertisement is based on “having solved self driving”.
There’s like three comments in here talking about the technology, everyone else is arguing about names like people are magically absolved of personal responsibilities when they believe advertising over common sense.
Because the tech has inarguably failed. It’s all about the lawyers and how long they can extend Tesla’s irresponsibility.
See, I would much rather have this discussion vs another one about advertising and names.
We’re seeing progress. Ford is expanding features on Blue Cruise (in-lane avoidance maneuvers I believe). I think Mercedes is expanding the area theirs works in. Tesla added off-highway navigation in the last year.
No one’s reached full autonomy for more than a few minutes or a few miles, but I wouldn’t say there’s no argument there. In fact, I’d say they’re arguably making visible progress.
Calling it Autopilot was always a marketing decision. It’s a driver assistance feature, nothing more. When used “as intended”, it works great. I drove for 14 hours during a road trip using AP and arrived not dead tired and still alert. That’s awesome, and would never have happened in a conventional car.
I have the “FSD” beta right now. It has potential, but I still always keep a hand on the wheel and am in control of my car.
At the end of the day, if the car makes a poor choice because of the automation, I’m still responsible as the driver, and I don’t want an accident, injury, or death on my conscience.
Tesla is producing advertisement videos (already in 2016) that said “our cars drive themselves, you don’t need a driver”. What you said is worthless when Tesla itself is marketing their cars like that.
Please link that. I’d like to see it.
this is the advertisement: https://www.tesla.com/videos/full-self-driving-hardware-all-tesla-cars
It literally says: “The person in the drivers seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”
And the best part is that the video was faked.
Cool ty. FSD is still beta for now. Maybe when it’s final. Fingers crossed.
I do agree the name and Teslas general advertising of drivers assists are a bit misleading.
But this is really on the driver for not paying attention.
“A bit misleading” is, I think, a bit of a misleading way to describe their marketing. It’s literally called Autopilot, and their marketing material has very aggressively pitched it as a ‘full self driving’ feature since the beginning, even without mentioning Musk’s own constant and ridiculous hyperbole when advertising it. It’s software that should never have been tested outside of vehicles run by company employees under controlled conditions, but Tesla chose to push it to the public as a paid feature and significantly downplay the fact that it is a poorly tested, unreliable beta, specifically to profit from the data generated by its widespread use, not to mention the price they charge for it as if it were a normal, ready to use consumer feature. Everything about their deployment of the system has been reckless, careless, and actively disdainful of their customers’ safety.
You don’t even seem to get the terms right so makes me question how well informed you really are on the subject.
Autopilot is the most basic free driver assist version that comes with every Tesla. Then there’s Enhanced Autopilot which costs extra and is more advanced and lastly there’s Full Self Driving BETA. Even the name indicates you probably shouldn’t trust your life with it.
Back on 2016 Tesla released a video that says “our cars drive themselves, you don’t the driver”.
The driver was also not even paying attention to the road so the blame should be on him not the car. People need to learn that Tesla’s version of autopilot has a specific use case and regular streets is not that.
They should really have called it something else than autopilot/FSD. It’s a driver assist and everyone knows this but it’s so easy to dunk on them when it fails because of the name though I’m 100% sure the system tells you to keep your eyes on the road and hands on the steering wheel when you engage it. If you crash a “self driving” car it’s the fault of the driver - not the vehicle.
Removed by mod
Tesla is producing advertisement videos that say ‘our cars drive themselves, you don’t need a driver’.
TBH I dont watch ads ever so would you be able to show me one where they show people driving on regular streets with full self driving? I dont doubt that they advertise it im just curious how they present it and how someone might perceive.
deleted by creator
