Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe evidence points towards the pyramids being built by paid workers, and I think some even got to be buried in their own smaller pyramids
Correct, except smaller pyramids, those were also for the kings only, workers building pyramids had their own cementaries iirc.
But knowledge of this fact actually makes this meme even more relatable - the people in it were closer to wage slaves like us.
Correct, conditions of the workers of the Pyramids and Temples
-8 h per day, 6 days a week
-Free housing, food and a small garden for themselves and their families
-Medical assistance and care in sick leave due to illness and accident.
-Exempt from paying taxes
-Care and assistance for the old ex-workers.
(better than today in most countries)
Slaves (mostly prisoners of war and criminals) were naturally also used, but only for basic jobs and assistance. The Pharao knew very well that if he wants a job well done, he cannot get it with slaves and in poor conditions, but with well-cared and happy professionals.
So uhh, anyone building pyramids today?
Yes. But the term has changed
gets rewarded with more work for working so hard
Okay hate on capitalism, fair enough
But equating it to literal slavery like we’ve had in the past (and still have in some parts of the world) seems problematic to me
we’ve had in the past
we definitely still have slavery in America. Like, in America. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of companies that outsource their slavery to other countries and then ship the product here so we can pretend it’s not made by slaves, but plenty of companies skip the middle man and just use slaves here
deleted by creator
What literal slavery? The pyramids weren’t built with slave labor.
There’s a dude with a whip in the picture, so it seems like the artist believes it was slave labor
It’s a common misconception.
Slavery is the ownership of a person as property, especially in regards to their labor.
Having 100% exclusive rights over the fruits of a person’s labor, so, a job.
Slavery typically involves compulsory work with the slave’s location of work and residence dictated by the party that holds them in bondage.
Ever applied for a mortgage?
Having 100% exclusive rights over the fruits of a person’s labor, so, a job.
But they don’t. I can end this arrangement at any point in time.
Ever applied for a mortgage?
Yes, and I can’t remember anyone forcing me to buy this specific apartment, or preventing me from selling it and moving anywhere else.
Regardless, my point wasn’t that work isn’t slavery, my point is that the pyramids weren’t built with slave labor.
Never mind the foreign interest campaigns to get Americans to be less productive
deleted by creator
It’s laughable, really. A country where one person could go to work while the other one could stay at home and still afford a house and a car at least.
American citizens got reamed by megacorps and some even enjoy it.
People are getting paid to fuck?
Do you have a link or source for this? Never heard it before
I’m somewhere between the whipper and the whipee.
Someone do something about political memes on the general meme communities please
Or at least require a decent font.
deleted by creator
The communist version of this meme has someone with a whip and sword standing behind them and telling them to work for the benefit of the people or die
How would this picture look like in a socialist democracy like some European countries?
At best European nations are social liberal democracies. No European country is a socialist nation.
Is there a non-liberal democracy that isn’t, by definition, flawed?
Humanity is flawed, so any of our constructions will be. But democracy is better than any alternative.
I’m not 100% sure about that, but I was more interested in the intrinsic correlation between democracy and Liberalism.
I just can’t imagine a democracy that isn’t liberal, because all the basic elements of a democracy crumble soon after. Unless, well, you consider ancient Athens’ Democracy to be an actual democracy.
I mean I guess you could have a socialist or feudal democracy, but the problem begins with those when you think about what happens with political dissidents
deleted by creator
I’m an American. No European country is a socialist nation.
What are the minimal requirements of a nation to uphold in order to be considered socialist?
A good faith attempt to end the capitalist mode of production and move to the socialist mode as envisioned by Marx. Elimination of the role of capital in the ownership of industry or production, that’s your chief characteristic
Oh by that measure I wholeheartedly agree, there is not a single socialist nation in Europe.
How would you describe the European legislation to protect their citizens from the effects of the market and capital? (Welfare, worker rights, pensions, limited work hours, paid leave etc.)
I’m not looking for dialectical nitpicking (maybe Socratic questioning), I’m asking out of curiosity and a want to understand the differences.
deleted by creator
🙄
China is a socialist democracy too. Dont leave them out.
The only part of China which is at all a democracy is Taiwan
Taiwan aka Republic of China aka state of China aka not a country. I dont care what a hand full of redditors have told you but they dont have a seat at the UN, the United States and EU doesnt recognize it as a sovereign nation, Taiwan depends on Chinese government and Chinese exports.
Either way, China claims itself to be a democratic socialist country so just own that.
Yeah ok man I don’t care about your geopolitics, the point is that the only part of what is considered China which is at all democratic is Taiwan. The PRC is a totalitarian, one party dictatorship.
You know I’m a communist, and I’d actually wager we would agree on your stance here if you chose better words. What you’re actually advocating against is state capitalism, and we both agree it’s a horrific and unjust system.
Something I’ve noticed about “anti-communists” is they absolutely love taking the USSR, CCP, and DPRK at their word for what they are. When they describe themselves as communist/socialist, you take it as an undeniable fact.
Do you think the DPRK is a democratic republic? It’s in the name. Of course you don’t, because it’d be ridiculous to let an authoritarian regime change the definitions of words to mean whatever they want it to mean :)
There’s two paths to talking with a communist. Either they’re a tankie and start singing the praises of the USSR and PRC and all sorts of totalitarian hellholes, or they start talking about hypothetical economic systems and states which haven’t been shown to be practically achievable. I don’t say this to be a dick, man. I much prefer the utopian idealist communists over those who cheer when political dissidents are machine gunned for wanting democracy. But it still doesn’t make libertarian communism a workable system, whether it’s anarchic communism or democratic socialism or some other form of stateless society.
So, I am happy to be civil with you, I just fundamentally disagree about whether attempting to achieve those ideals would end well. In my opinion, it would have one of three results - anarchy and a breakdown of the economy, imposition of totalitarian rule in reaction to groups of people who don’t want to give up their private property rights, or reversion to another form of economic structure, like capitalism.
No economic or political system can be shown to be practically achievable before it’s been achieved. If you don’t think the following examples are examples of genuine socialism/communism, then that’s not an argument against the ideology.
We’ve had communists fight alongside other leftists. So revolutionary Catalonia was a functioning leftist space, meeting all the criteria to be called communist (classless/moneyless/stateless). It functioned incredibly well for a year before it was invaded.
If you want a longer, but smaller example, Red Vienna existed for about 2 decades and was a fully functional socialist space that improved worker’s lives before being outlawed by a regime change.
If your position is that imperialist capitalist nations will always invade/outlaw well-functioning socialist/communist systems, you can’t know that for sure, but it’s definitely a possibility. That doesn’t mean the entire idea is worth throwing away.
What imperialist capitalist nations
It won’t always be the same ones so I’m unsure of what you’re asking. Which ones invaded the spaces I listed before?
For Revolutionary Catalonia it was the Nationalist Faction who overthrew them. They advocated for, and implemented, a form of national syndicalism that was “fully compatible with capitalism”.
For Red Vienna is was the fascists who overturned the socialist policies and returned the city to a state of capitalism, allowing land-leeches and other bourgeoise to return to continue exploiting the working class.
this is racist against black people
Wut?
The pyramid builders weren’t even slaves ya dumbass
