It feels like there’s reason to inflate those numbers both for Israel and Palestine. Do we know they’re credible? Genuinely asking, I’m not sure from my cursory searx.
The reason the US supports Israel is exactly because Israel is a settler-colony. They’re part of the same genocidal settler project, Zionism is Manifest Destiny.
If landback wins in Israel the ones paying attention know that it’s coming for them too.
But they didn’t have to make a colony of European settlers to do that, did they? Egypt is a loyal collaborator with the US and it fulfills the same geostrategic goals, but the amount of support Egypt gets pales in comparison to Israel. Why is that?
We can’t dismiss the ideological importance of Israel. The unlimited support of the 51st state is exactly because it is a settler-colony.
I don’t see many ethnic Egyptians in places of power that can influence policy or get laws voted concerning their country.
Egypt hasn’t always been loyal, certainly not the population.
They overthrew the previous puppet despite US efforts to keep him in place.
When they saw it was hopeless they threw him under the bus and ‘supported’ the arab spring movement.
In reality they hijacked the revolution and simply put another puppet in place.
Settler-colonialism isn’t just about who is in power (although it is about that). That’s just regular colonialism, like French Algeria.
Settler-colonialism is about importing settlers to replace the indigenous population while enacting genocidal policies to exterminate or expell the indigenous population. Egypt isn’t experiencing that.
That’s why Egypt doesn’t get the level of support that Israel does.
This belief that Israel is a US controlled proxy has always vexed me.
So-- honest question here-- From inside the US it appears that our entire political apparatus is controlled by a relatively small sprinkling of zionists doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US-- going all the way back to the Nakba. But theres always people (like yourself) on Lemmy and Reddit claiming Israel is a US creature under US control for US gain.
As an American my free speech ends and I get prosecuted if I say anything anti semitic. I CAN say racist things about anyone else, all I want as long as I dont start a riot.
Can you tell me why you are so certain zionism is controlled by the US (your understanding), not the US by rich zionists (my understanding)?
edit: Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.
The US and Israel have a partnership.
While the zionist representation is very visible in US politics and creates the belief that they contol it it is not so.
Can you honestly believe that if you objectively compare the two?
A tiny country with a small population and a small army (despite again being disproportionally and relatively big) vs a huge country with the largest military in the world that was already a world power before the other even existed.
" doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US"
Can you give an example?
If you’re thinking now that the bad thing is israel may drag the US into war with Iran you’re mistaken.
That may happen but it’s bcs it is the US intention to have war on Iran.
They have provoked them many times all on their own without using the israel proxy.
Hijacking ships, small attacks and unilaterally breaking the nuclear deal, etc. to increase tension.
Anyway here’s a good article I recently read.
Whatever is happening now has long been predicted.
“Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.”
I sometimes sleep, and never run away from a discussion if it’s civil or useful.
Which is rare here since .world is infested with reactionary clowns throwing insults and platitutes when they lose an argument.
examples of whats good for Israel being bad for the US:
Our aligning with Israel during the Yom Kipur war (6 day war) caused Oil prices to quadruple, which caused a decade of turmoil in the US, and almost incalculable damage to our currency. And it never really recovered to a natural pattern. The US runs on oil.
https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart
See that massive bump up in 1973? I dont suppose you are old enough to remember interest rates in the 80s are you? it peaked at 21.5%. Thats catastrophic damage to the average US persons purchasing power. Wages didnt keep up with costs-- not even close. The Israeli’s colonial war cost the US our middle class and created a massive underclass. We all paid for their war, that they claim was preemptive and unavoidable, and not their fault (just like their attack on Iran today).
And what was our reward for that? Did we gain any political leverage at all in that region? Bases? soft power? No. No we didnt. all we got was some of the blame for the Nakba, and some of the blame for the ridiculous levels persecution and murder of the Palestinian people. It was pure cost.
1990-1991 Desert storm
Israel badly wanted Sadam Hussein removed. Iraq said they invaded Kuwait because Kuwait was slant drilling into their oil fields, which is true and was known at the time to be true. So we invaded and rescued a bunch of literal thieves-- and coincidentally destroyed a potent adversary of Israel. What did we gain? anything? Two air bases, and thats about it, at great cost. The government or Iraq is barely more friendly to us that they were before. I suppose we got CENTCOM established in Kuwait. So thas not nothing, but its darn close to nothing. Israel got a major enemy removed for them. They didnt join in desert storm-- and did not allow overflight of their territory during it. They are not, and never have been a real military ally. They court Russia as much as they do the US. Same as India.
9/11/2001. Bin Laden says he attacked the world trade centers in new york to bring US public eyes to the plight of the Palestinian people that their government was facilitating, but that Americans had no idea about. And what did our people do? Our government idiotically claimed “they hated us for our freedoms”, and made a big show about not blaming all muslims, just some. What was America’s gain there? And when the attack happened, Israelis in New York and Israel were caught on tape literally cheering about it and filming it.
Bin Ladens interview with PBS:
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/miller.html
“The American imposes himself on everyone. Americans accuse our children in Palestine of being terrorists–those children, who have no weapons and have not even reached maturity. At the same time, Americans defend a country, the state of the Jews, that has a policy to destroy the future of these children.”
Obviously no one condones or support what Bin Laden did, but lets be clear eyed in our foreign policy: was he incorrect in any way in his statement? I dont see how we can honestly say he was not being earnest – to his point of view anyway. 9/11 and its outcomes would seem to be a massive, massive, massive cost to the United states in terms of hard power and soft, and added tremendously to our national debt burden. We have the TSA exactly because of Israel’s murderous colonial adventurism. What of we’d simply show the muslim world the diplomatic respect of equals from the start? And he was right, zionism IS a policy of displacing the locals from their land however possible. Thats all it is. Its racist theft and murder. Its not self defense or justice, and it never has been.
And that brings us to today. We’re literally sponsoring a genocide of innocents, for Israel’s benefit. Its one of the most illegal and immoral things a country can possibly do.
The world HATES the US because of our stand with Israel. They now see us as almost as bad as Israel. Stupid. Easily manipulated. A global problem. This is as we have also been the main contributor to food aid and the stability of trade across the planet. Thats a cost. And what have we gotten out of it? Our funding of free weapons for shenangans and murder, and our vetoing every resolution that is about peace and justice in the region for Israeli gain costs us dearly. It makes every American traveler unsafe and unwelcome, and makes people not want to trade with us or listen to our opinions. It is destroying the concepts of democracy and the rules based order, and the concept os the western world itself. The world is ditching the dollar. I hope its all worth it for Israel to finish their genocide of innocents, who today have nothing. They are doing it for beachfront condos. They will not be any more secure after this.
And what does the US population gain for our support? Its not for any philosophical or moral reason, obviously. Israelis literally spit on christians they see in the street-- is that what friends and long term allies do? Does it indicate a “partnership”? What exactly does Israel provide to the US beyond campaign bribes through AIPAC? Intel on their enemies?
I don’t. I only feel terrible for the ones who were opposed to these attacks on other countries. Most of them (if the statistics I’ve seen are to be believed) support the actions, so they deserve the consequences. Maybe these people dying horrifically will finally make others consider the value of lives.
The rest would do the same.
As they always have proven their entire miserable history.
Singling out Netanyahoo is Bernie the sheepdog’s tactics of dammage control
Every government before him was the same, they’re not ‘hypothetical’. Ridiculous argument.
What doesn’t exist is a reality where the next government isn’t brutally mistreating Palestine.
Your hasbara is weak
First let’s settle one thing, Israel has no right to exist. I’m against assuming 100% of the populace is all for the genocide. The majority government and their supporters clearly are.
The apartheid state of Israel needs to end. The genocide needs to be stopped by any means, except a genocide in return.
The entire majority government and their supporters can hang.
I’m not going to condem the rest for a “thought” crime they didn’t commit. Maybe they would have done the same thing, maybe not.
Plenty of jews outside the apartheid state are against it.
Those that live there, wether bcs of propaganda or a superiority complex don’t.
Maybe 5 to 10% maximum have normal views.
You know what they say about people trying the same thing and expecting different results.
Israel didn’t become an apartheid genocidal occupation of Palestinian land under Netanyahu. It’s has been since its founding.
You’re suggesting we close our eyes and pretend their entire history doesn’t matter, that we just blame the current figurehead and his (variable but typically increasingly few) direct supporters.
Idk man. If you’re a child, a unhoused, or a otherwise a person without the economic means to leave because your ancestors were settlers and you just so happened to be born in the colonized land, I’d consider you a civilian. I think your view is too black and white.
Screw you if you’re a deliberate Zionist benefiting from genocide though.
Israelis aren’t walled in and prevented from leaving like Palestinians are in Gaza.
Israelis have no practical excuse to continue their occupation, especially when everyone is forced to serve in the IDF to actively aid the occupation rather than just passively.
As long as they are not on active duty, they shouldn’t be targets. And if they are forced to serve, they should still only be killed if they are an active threat. Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.
Hope you’re acting ironic and do not actually call to genocide all Jews in Israel.
Zionists are not Jewish people, they are actually against Judaism.
I believe it’s the Talmud that says Israel cannot exist until the messiah returns. This is why you have many religious Jews in the US against the state of Israel.
There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in total.
“Zionists are mostly Jews” is an objectively false statement.
Maybe specifically in Israel the statement could be seen as true, but that’s only because Israel is a jewish settler ethnostate, so most of almost any grouping would be a majority Jews.
Hope you’re acting ironic by saying that you can commit a genocide, put your gun over the fireplace you murdered a family to steal, and suddenly not be a valid target.
It doesn’t matter if you put your gun down as a settler colonizer. You’re still actively engaging in the genocide. You are still a valid target.
And the objective of any just war is to expel you.
Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.
Get on a plane and go home. No one’s stopping you. That’s your opportunity.
How are you engaging in genocide if you do not take part in the war? And especially if you denounce the actions of your government? Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?
I swear this “settler” discourse is gonna drive me crazy at some point.
How can you call me a robber just because I accepted all of these stolen goods that were stolen specifically for me to have?
Shut the fuck up holy god
Good. Go crazy. Shut the fuck up.
Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?
If you join the IDF yes it fucking is. And why are you acting like this is something that happened at the dawn of history? These are not people who were born there. These are people who settled there because they were told they could murder people and steal their homes. Stop making ahistoric excuses for fucking fascists, you fucking fascist piece of shit.
In no way to be a snob, but could we tone it down? After all, we’re mostly on the same page on that the state of Israel is committing war crimes, we only differ in who we blame for it.
Back to the substance:
First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there; they are not the same people who came to displace Palestinians all those decades ago.
Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.
Third, in your robber hypothetical, where are the Israeli civilians? Do they have to renounce their citizenship and go live abroad not to receive “stolen goods”? Someone who is opposed to the war taking place are not “robbers” here.
First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there
Mind palace nonsense. Fuck you just saying shit so confidently. 50% of the jewish population emigrated since 2000.
Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.
Literally learn the first fucking thing about the subject you’re talking about before you open your dumb fucking mouth about it. Not even going to help you here. Shut up. Sit down. Listen. Read. But most importantly shut the fuck up.
hypothetical
Fucking nazi genocide denial
Someone who is opposed to the war taking place are not “robbers” here.
Again just speaking out of pure fucking mind palace ignorance. The jewish population of Isn’treal almost unanimously supports the extermination of the palestinians. You are arguing pure rhetoric outside of reality. That’s why it’s so important that you shut the fuck up
Most of your points can be readily disproved with a single search query, however, it’s not worth engaging with a person who can’t hold their temper for a second.
I don’t want to talk ethics, but as a rule of thumb, winning a war is easier if you take out strategic targets than if you target civilians. Targeting civilians is what you do if your weapons aren’t precise enough to target tanks/planes etc.
I feel terrible for every citizen killed or made homeless/jobless because of this.
every citizen in Palestine and Iran too right?
RIGHT?
Of course! All citizens.
Just a reminder: 82% of all the Israeli Jews support ethnic cleansing in Gaza.
Just saying.
It feels like there’s reason to inflate those numbers both for Israel and Palestine. Do we know they’re credible? Genuinely asking, I’m not sure from my cursory searx.
Shouldn’t be a citizen on stolen land.
USAmericans sweating rn 😬
Don’t think they care much. Or about anything except themselves for that matter.
The most navel staring country on the planet
The reason the US supports Israel is exactly because Israel is a settler-colony. They’re part of the same genocidal settler project, Zionism is Manifest Destiny.
If landback wins in Israel the ones paying attention know that it’s coming for them too.
It’s also a geographically beneficial located proxy.
But they didn’t have to make a colony of European settlers to do that, did they? Egypt is a loyal collaborator with the US and it fulfills the same geostrategic goals, but the amount of support Egypt gets pales in comparison to Israel. Why is that?
We can’t dismiss the ideological importance of Israel. The unlimited support of the 51st state is exactly because it is a settler-colony.
I don’t see many ethnic Egyptians in places of power that can influence policy or get laws voted concerning their country.
Egypt hasn’t always been loyal, certainly not the population.
They overthrew the previous puppet despite US efforts to keep him in place.
When they saw it was hopeless they threw him under the bus and ‘supported’ the arab spring movement.
In reality they hijacked the revolution and simply put another puppet in place.
Settler-colonialism isn’t just about who is in power (although it is about that). That’s just regular colonialism, like French Algeria.
Settler-colonialism is about importing settlers to replace the indigenous population while enacting genocidal policies to exterminate or expell the indigenous population. Egypt isn’t experiencing that.
That’s why Egypt doesn’t get the level of support that Israel does.
This belief that Israel is a US controlled proxy has always vexed me.
So-- honest question here-- From inside the US it appears that our entire political apparatus is controlled by a relatively small sprinkling of zionists doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US-- going all the way back to the Nakba. But theres always people (like yourself) on Lemmy and Reddit claiming Israel is a US creature under US control for US gain.
As an American my free speech ends and I get prosecuted if I say anything anti semitic. I CAN say racist things about anyone else, all I want as long as I dont start a riot.
Can you tell me why you are so certain zionism is controlled by the US (your understanding), not the US by rich zionists (my understanding)?
edit: Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.
The US and Israel have a partnership.
While the zionist representation is very visible in US politics and creates the belief that they contol it it is not so.
Can you honestly believe that if you objectively compare the two?
A tiny country with a small population and a small army (despite again being disproportionally and relatively big) vs a huge country with the largest military in the world that was already a world power before the other even existed.
" doing whatever is good for Israel and is inevitably bad for the US"
Can you give an example?
If you’re thinking now that the bad thing is israel may drag the US into war with Iran you’re mistaken.
That may happen but it’s bcs it is the US intention to have war on Iran.
They have provoked them many times all on their own without using the israel proxy.
Hijacking ships, small attacks and unilaterally breaking the nuclear deal, etc. to increase tension.
Anyway here’s a good article I recently read.
Whatever is happening now has long been predicted.
“Did you just …downvote and run away from the question? It was an honest question.”
I sometimes sleep, and never run away from a discussion if it’s civil or useful.
Which is rare here since .world is infested with reactionary clowns throwing insults and platitutes when they lose an argument.
Let me know what you think.
examples of whats good for Israel being bad for the US:
Our aligning with Israel during the Yom Kipur war (6 day war) caused Oil prices to quadruple, which caused a decade of turmoil in the US, and almost incalculable damage to our currency. And it never really recovered to a natural pattern. The US runs on oil.
https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart See that massive bump up in 1973? I dont suppose you are old enough to remember interest rates in the 80s are you? it peaked at 21.5%. Thats catastrophic damage to the average US persons purchasing power. Wages didnt keep up with costs-- not even close. The Israeli’s colonial war cost the US our middle class and created a massive underclass. We all paid for their war, that they claim was preemptive and unavoidable, and not their fault (just like their attack on Iran today).
And what was our reward for that? Did we gain any political leverage at all in that region? Bases? soft power? No. No we didnt. all we got was some of the blame for the Nakba, and some of the blame for the ridiculous levels persecution and murder of the Palestinian people. It was pure cost.
1990-1991 Desert storm Israel badly wanted Sadam Hussein removed. Iraq said they invaded Kuwait because Kuwait was slant drilling into their oil fields, which is true and was known at the time to be true. So we invaded and rescued a bunch of literal thieves-- and coincidentally destroyed a potent adversary of Israel. What did we gain? anything? Two air bases, and thats about it, at great cost. The government or Iraq is barely more friendly to us that they were before. I suppose we got CENTCOM established in Kuwait. So thas not nothing, but its darn close to nothing. Israel got a major enemy removed for them. They didnt join in desert storm-- and did not allow overflight of their territory during it. They are not, and never have been a real military ally. They court Russia as much as they do the US. Same as India.
9/11/2001. Bin Laden says he attacked the world trade centers in new york to bring US public eyes to the plight of the Palestinian people that their government was facilitating, but that Americans had no idea about. And what did our people do? Our government idiotically claimed “they hated us for our freedoms”, and made a big show about not blaming all muslims, just some. What was America’s gain there? And when the attack happened, Israelis in New York and Israel were caught on tape literally cheering about it and filming it.
Bin Ladens interview with PBS: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/miller.html “The American imposes himself on everyone. Americans accuse our children in Palestine of being terrorists–those children, who have no weapons and have not even reached maturity. At the same time, Americans defend a country, the state of the Jews, that has a policy to destroy the future of these children.”
Obviously no one condones or support what Bin Laden did, but lets be clear eyed in our foreign policy: was he incorrect in any way in his statement? I dont see how we can honestly say he was not being earnest – to his point of view anyway. 9/11 and its outcomes would seem to be a massive, massive, massive cost to the United states in terms of hard power and soft, and added tremendously to our national debt burden. We have the TSA exactly because of Israel’s murderous colonial adventurism. What of we’d simply show the muslim world the diplomatic respect of equals from the start? And he was right, zionism IS a policy of displacing the locals from their land however possible. Thats all it is. Its racist theft and murder. Its not self defense or justice, and it never has been.
And that brings us to today. We’re literally sponsoring a genocide of innocents, for Israel’s benefit. Its one of the most illegal and immoral things a country can possibly do.
The world HATES the US because of our stand with Israel. They now see us as almost as bad as Israel. Stupid. Easily manipulated. A global problem. This is as we have also been the main contributor to food aid and the stability of trade across the planet. Thats a cost. And what have we gotten out of it? Our funding of free weapons for shenangans and murder, and our vetoing every resolution that is about peace and justice in the region for Israeli gain costs us dearly. It makes every American traveler unsafe and unwelcome, and makes people not want to trade with us or listen to our opinions. It is destroying the concepts of democracy and the rules based order, and the concept os the western world itself. The world is ditching the dollar. I hope its all worth it for Israel to finish their genocide of innocents, who today have nothing. They are doing it for beachfront condos. They will not be any more secure after this.
And what does the US population gain for our support? Its not for any philosophical or moral reason, obviously. Israelis literally spit on christians they see in the street-- is that what friends and long term allies do? Does it indicate a “partnership”? What exactly does Israel provide to the US beyond campaign bribes through AIPAC? Intel on their enemies?
Us next!
Manifest destiny said the US land is all ours. Also Hawaii. Divine right mandated by God, so…
/s
I don’t. I only feel terrible for the ones who were opposed to these attacks on other countries. Most of them (if the statistics I’ve seen are to be believed) support the actions, so they deserve the consequences. Maybe these people dying horrifically will finally make others consider the value of lives.
What kind of citizen? Palestinian? Iranian?
What the other commenter said. All citizens.
All
Hopefully they take the opportunity for a fresh start and move out of the settler occupation of Palestine.
If they voted for Netanyahu they asked for it, and I have no sympathy.
The rest would do the same.
As they always have proven their entire miserable history.
Singling out Netanyahoo is Bernie the sheepdog’s tactics of dammage control
Blaming the government in power and those who put them in power for the actions taken by the government is totally reasonable.
You’re suggesting well “what about a hypothetical government that doesn’t exist huh?”. That doesn’t matter. They don’t exist. Blame the government
Every government before him was the same, they’re not ‘hypothetical’. Ridiculous argument.
What doesn’t exist is a reality where the next government isn’t brutally mistreating Palestine.
Your hasbara is weak
First let’s settle one thing, Israel has no right to exist. I’m against assuming 100% of the populace is all for the genocide. The majority government and their supporters clearly are.
The apartheid state of Israel needs to end. The genocide needs to be stopped by any means, except a genocide in return.
The entire majority government and their supporters can hang.
I’m not going to condem the rest for a “thought” crime they didn’t commit. Maybe they would have done the same thing, maybe not.
I hope you are being naive.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/9/poll-53-israelis-support-extrajudicial-killings.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-half-of-jewish-israelis-say-israel-should-run-gaza-after-the-war-0-say-hamas/
Plenty of jews outside the apartheid state are against it.
Those that live there, wether bcs of propaganda or a superiority complex don’t.
Maybe 5 to 10% maximum have normal views.
You know what they say about people trying the same thing and expecting different results.
Israel didn’t become an apartheid genocidal occupation of Palestinian land under Netanyahu. It’s has been since its founding.
You’re suggesting we close our eyes and pretend their entire history doesn’t matter, that we just blame the current figurehead and his (variable but typically increasingly few) direct supporters.
Well I’m glad all of your elected officials represent your views and morals.
Fun fact: every citizen of the entity is considered a reservist so there ARE no civilians! If you’re a settler you’re a valid target no matter what!
Idk man. If you’re a child, a unhoused, or a otherwise a person without the economic means to leave because your ancestors were settlers and you just so happened to be born in the colonized land, I’d consider you a civilian. I think your view is too black and white.
Screw you if you’re a deliberate Zionist benefiting from genocide though.
Israelis aren’t walled in and prevented from leaving like Palestinians are in Gaza.
Israelis have no practical excuse to continue their occupation, especially when everyone is forced to serve in the IDF to actively aid the occupation rather than just passively.
As long as they are not on active duty, they shouldn’t be targets. And if they are forced to serve, they should still only be killed if they are an active threat. Normally, they should first be offered to surrender.
Hope you’re acting ironic and do not actually call to genocide all Jews in Israel.
No, but all Israelis that are zionists maybe.
Zionists are not Jewish people, they are actually against Judaism.
I believe it’s the Talmud that says Israel cannot exist until the messiah returns. This is why you have many religious Jews in the US against the state of Israel.
Zionists are the one and only antisemites.
Zionists are mostly Jews, but Jews are mostly not Zionists.
But yes, according to Talmud, Israel shouldn’t exist.
There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in total.
“Zionists are mostly Jews” is an objectively false statement.
Maybe specifically in Israel the statement could be seen as true, but that’s only because Israel is a jewish settler ethnostate, so most of almost any grouping would be a majority Jews.
Zionist are not jews. They might say they are but the are against Judaism just like southern Christians are not Christians.
Hope you’re acting ironic by saying that you can commit a genocide, put your gun over the fireplace you murdered a family to steal, and suddenly not be a valid target.
It doesn’t matter if you put your gun down as a settler colonizer. You’re still actively engaging in the genocide. You are still a valid target.
And the objective of any just war is to expel you.
Get on a plane and go home. No one’s stopping you. That’s your opportunity.
How are you engaging in genocide if you do not take part in the war? And especially if you denounce the actions of your government? Is being born in Israel enough to be seen as a genocidal maniac?
I swear this “settler” discourse is gonna drive me crazy at some point.
How can you call me a robber just because I accepted all of these stolen goods that were stolen specifically for me to have?
Shut the fuck up holy god
Good. Go crazy. Shut the fuck up.
If you join the IDF yes it fucking is. And why are you acting like this is something that happened at the dawn of history? These are not people who were born there. These are people who settled there because they were told they could murder people and steal their homes. Stop making ahistoric excuses for fucking fascists, you fucking fascist piece of shit.
In no way to be a snob, but could we tone it down? After all, we’re mostly on the same page on that the state of Israel is committing war crimes, we only differ in who we blame for it.
Back to the substance:
First, Israel as an independent state exists since 1948, so yes, the absolute majority of people living in modern day Israel were born there; they are not the same people who came to displace Palestinians all those decades ago.
Second, I did not talk about IDF soldiers. Those who voluntarily joined Israeli armed forces do take part in an act of evil, and deserve to be judged. I do not support the same notion in respect to Israeli civilians and those on mandatory service.
Third, in your robber hypothetical, where are the Israeli civilians? Do they have to renounce their citizenship and go live abroad not to receive “stolen goods”? Someone who is opposed to the war taking place are not “robbers” here.
Mind palace nonsense. Fuck you just saying shit so confidently. 50% of the jewish population emigrated since 2000.
Literally learn the first fucking thing about the subject you’re talking about before you open your dumb fucking mouth about it. Not even going to help you here. Shut up. Sit down. Listen. Read. But most importantly shut the fuck up.
Fucking nazi genocide denial
Again just speaking out of pure fucking mind palace ignorance. The jewish population of Isn’treal almost unanimously supports the extermination of the palestinians. You are arguing pure rhetoric outside of reality. That’s why it’s so important that you shut the fuck up
Most of your points can be readily disproved with a single search query, however, it’s not worth engaging with a person who can’t hold their temper for a second.
Therapy does magic.
I don’t want to talk ethics, but as a rule of thumb, winning a war is easier if you take out strategic targets than if you target civilians. Targeting civilians is what you do if your weapons aren’t precise enough to target tanks/planes etc.