• masterspace@lemmy.ca
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    21 days ago

    Valve expects that the overwhelming majority of its users will keep up with semi-modern hardware (In this case, a machine capable of running windows 10/SteamOS) which I don’t feel is is an unreasonable ask.

    Valve is forcing them to upgrade their software and hardware to keep playing games they already purchased, on the hardware they purchased it on.

    However, expecting Valve to retain support for an OS that hit end of life 20 years ago is unreasonable.

    It is very reasonable. No one forced Valve to build their business model this way, and they are one of the most profitable companies per employee, ever. It would not be onerous for them to continue supporting a couple of old versions of Windows, they would just have to hire a few more people to do it. Gabe would still be a billionaire.

    • Godort@lemmy.ca
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      21 days ago

      It is very reasonable. No one forced Valve to build their business model this way, and they are one of the most profitable companies per employee, ever.

      Literally every software company built their business model this way. Go open a support case with any software vendor complaining that their product won’t run on Windows 98 and see how many help you out beyond “Buy a computer from this millennium”

      It would not be onerous for them to continue supporting a couple of old versions of Windows, they would just have to hire a few more people to do it.

      You are failing to understand just how much has changed since Windows 98. It’s a completely different environment that requires specialized knowledge to develop for. They can’t just dust off some old source code and re-release the client. The entire back-end has changed. It would be a massive undertaking that would appease about 12 people total.

      Gabe would still be a billionaire.

      Sure, but I would argue that there are a lot of better things that Valve could be doing with those resources than supporting Windows 98

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        21 days ago

        Literally every software company built their business model this way. Go open a support case with any software vendor complaining that their product won’t run on Windows 98 and see how many help you out beyond “Buy a computer from this millennium”

        No, they didn’t. I can install the software I bought back in the day on the computers I bought it for, using the license key provided. GoG also famously uses a model where GoG does not care what OS you’re using.

        You are failing to understand just how much has changed since Windows 98. It’s a completely different environment that requires specialized knowledge to develop for. They can’t just dust off some old source code and re-release the client. The entire back-end has changed. It would be a massive undertaking that would appease about 12 people total.

        Lol, I’m a software developer that started by writing legacy windows software, I know exactly how much (little) has changed.

        Sure, but I would argue that there are a lot of better things that Valve could be doing with those resources than supporting Windows 98

        I don’t care. They have the resources to support it.

        Either strip the DRM out and pay whatever you have to to the publishers to do that, or keep supporting the systems you sold your software for.

        The idea that Valve is blameless for shitty behaviour because other tech companies also do that shitty behaviour is nonsense. They have been the dominant platform forever, and have had an insane amount of resources available to them.

        • HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth
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          21 days ago

          Lol, I’m a software developer that started by writing legacy windows software, I know exactly how much (little) has changed.

          It is this perspective that exposes your bias and colors your perception.

          We live in a post-Heartbleed world. We live in a post-UAC world. We constantly find new bugs and vulnerabilities, and they cannot always be patched without massive changes to the architecture. We cannot forever maintain old systems that cultivated bad habits in it’s users.

          Not all change is good, but all change is inevitable.

          • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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            21 days ago

            No that perspective is what makes me understand that when corporations talk about obsceleting things for security reasons, it’s almost always not actually because of security, because it would be a little less profitable to continue support.

            And Valve didnt have to build a business around always checking in DRM if they didn’t want to support old clients, and they have more than enough resources to continue support.

            • HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth
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              21 days ago

              Can I hold you to the decisions you made 20 years ago? I bought that program you built decades ago, that means I’m entitled to your continued support. And don’t you even think about getting paid, your support should be free. You shouldn’t have built and sold the software if you can’t support it…

              • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                21 days ago

                We’re not talking about support, we’re talking about not breaking the software we bought after the fact.

                • missingno@fedia.io
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                  21 days ago

                  It would not be onerous for them to continue supporting a couple of old versions of Windows, they would just have to hire a few more people to do it.

                  You literally did say support.

                  • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                    21 days ago

                    Yes, they can have their software continue to support Windows by simply not breaking the version that works for windows, without having to provide full customer support and service for it.

        • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          21 days ago

          Lol, I’m a software developer that started by writing legacy windows software, I know exactly how much (little) has changed.

          Oh, so this whole situation is to a significant degree, your fault.

          =P

      • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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        21 days ago

        Literally any game sold that didn’t include always checking in DRM through a particular desktop client. i.e. virtually every single PC game not sold through steam.

        • missingno@fedia.io
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          21 days ago

          That’s not what I asked. You said you wanted Valve to hire people to support Windows 98. What company still supports Windows 98 like that?

          • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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            21 days ago

            Lots. Do you know how much corporate software is still of that vintage?

            Literally like half of AutoCAD’s products still use the graphics and windowing APIs from that era as one example. The WinForms API are clunky by modern standards but also relatively trivial for a programmer to pick up and code with.

            I mean, there is still an industry of Cobol engineers maintaining mainframe code for banks from the 80s.

            • missingno@fedia.io
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              21 days ago

              I am aware that some corporate infrastructure is hopelessly tangled up in legacy systems. But we are talking about consumer support here, which I know you know is very different.

              • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                21 days ago

                No, it’s not. Autodesk sells that software to consumers and corporations literally every single day.

                Try and code a WinForms app, follow any tutorial you can, and notice that it’s very possible and not that onerous.

                People these days just accept the shit tech companies feed them because they’re using to eating shit from them.

            • HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth
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              21 days ago

              I mean, there is still an industry of Cobol engineers maintaining mainframe code for banks from the 80s.

              my gramps, that’s not the beacon of good business practice you think it is 🤣

              • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                21 days ago

                The question at hand is whether or not there are enough engineers to feasibly support Windows 98. Try and work on your reading comprehension.

                • HarkMahlberg@kbin.earth
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                  21 days ago

                  No. The question at hand is whether you expect any company, or any person, to indefinitely fix and maintain legacy systems. And yes, your argument is indefinite support because you want the purchasing machine to be granted use of the software in perpetuity, you want it to never lose access to the software. You provided no deadline by which anyone is allowed to stop fixing things that broke. And yes, things break naturally as a function of time.

                  • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                    21 days ago

                    And yes, things break naturally as a function of time.

                    Why don’t you go ahead and explain the exact mechanism that causes software to change and would cause a computer to interpret it differently over time, without a human intervening and updating it to break it.

                    Don’t worry, we’ll wait.