Ring founder Jamie Siminoff is back at the helm of the surveillance doorbell company, and with him is the surveillance-first-privacy-last approach that made Ring one of the most maligned tech devices. Not only is the company reintroducing new versions of old features which would allow police to request footage directly from Ring users, it is also introducing a new feature that would allow police to request live-st
Who could have guessed that having billionaire owned always on surveillance device in your home would lead to this
It’s not like there’s been dozens of people warning about it in the last few years. People deserve what they get.
I bought a cheap Chinese security camera for a fraction of the cost of a Ring and signed up for their cloud storage system. I’m more comfortable with the Chinese government being able to access footage of my backyard, than the current US administration.
Or you could choose an option that does neither. Why feed the autocrats at all?
eh, you might have a spare day to source a completely uncompromised camera and find someone in a trusted neutral country who runs an unproblematic hosting service and configure a system to do offsite storage in a secure way, but I’ve got other stuff going on. If you can source me a reasonable alternative I’m happy to use it when it comes time to renew my subscription.
Just buy a Reolink Doorbell. Pop in an SD card. Put in on your wifi or LAN and access it with your browser. You’re done. It’s all local. There’s an optional app that does need an external server, but that’s optional and there is no subscription.
Reolink devices still reach out to a bunch of different servers across the world as soon as you connect them to a network.
Always isolate an IP doorbell or camera on its own access point or virtual network, where it can’t see or interact with other devices on your local network, and then block it from WAN access.
Ok, but one of the most important use cases is non-local access.
If I’m at home I can just go to the door.
Wireguard/tailscale in?
This is highly unlikely to be able to notify you of someone ringing the door. It’s doable, but takes some tinkering which most people are not able to do because of all the reasons mentioned in previous comments.
An offsite server is not under your control and accessible by who knows. Surely it is still a privacy concern.
Privacy is like security in that it costs time. Most people don’t spend time on even having a conversation like this but if something bothers you then finding a spare day is easier.
Besides that I would trust a Chinese cloud way more than a murican one (I’m non-US), this really is a lazy excuse. This apathy paired with ignorance or being technically challenged is the main reason dystopian shit like ring even sells at all. Or all those silly “smart” assistants like Alexa.
Phrases like “renewing my subscription” in context of a fucking doorbell itself sounds so absurd to me.
E.g. A raspberry (or the likes) with some run-of-the-mill ip-cam, some wifi-doorbell and AgentDVR would do the same for even less moneyz. And just for you, not the whole world. Wouldn’t take more than some hours of setup.
Phrases like “renewing my subscription” in context of a fucking doorbell itself sounds so absurd to me.
Why? It’s logical to want your video footage held offsite so that burglars don’t just take the device you’re storing the footage of them on. Which means paying someone to store it for you. Which means a subscription. Even if you’re running AgentDVR on an offsite server that you control, you’re still paying money to the hosting company.
A raspberry (or the likes) with some run-of-the-mill ip-cam, some wifi-doorbell and AgentDVR would do the same for even less moneyz. And just for you, not the whole world. Wouldn’t take more than some hours of setup.
Wow. Do you have any idea what you sound like there?
(also, it’s not even true on its own terms. A raspberry pi plus all the components and equipment necessary to set up what you’re describing would be easily over $100, I paid $19 for my Chinese internet camera)
Why do I need the footage offsite? Because the burglar might’ve stolen the server/raspberry? I actually have my server storage hidden, if that would even be on the radar of a thief, which I really doubt.
But even if, an encrypted storage of your own choosing still beats random access by who-the-fuck-even-knows.
OK, granted, your 19-moneyz-solution is financially hard to beat, and probably no Chinese really gives a rats ass about your data. But even the thought that some random cloud-admin might just take a peek out of boredom…ugh. But OK, I’m a very private person.
A proper solution that does not suck probably costs a bit more than a ring (dunno what they cost though), but if one owns a house, one probably has a few spare hundreds or thousands for a secure surveillance.
Nah you’re just being lazy. Its really not that hard. At least be ashamed man instead of this defeatist bullshit.
What you’re saying makes me think you aren’t aware of the technical knowledge of your typical smart doorbell or cam user, which is basically little to none.
And exactly this behavior (“I have no clue about the thing I will do, but I’ll do it anyway without educating myself prior”) is what makes everything suck more and more because it always gets adapted to the lowest common denominator.
We’re only still alive because people need licenses to drive cars or fly planes.
But this maybe implies that there’s a possibility to change this behaviour. Which is infeasible. For many of the same reasons why we don’t have people specialize in more than a couple of areas.If you’re not implying that and you’re just saying that in vacuum, then yeah sure. That said it’s not the only reaaon why things suck more and changing this behaviour is not the only way to not have things suck, For example a government in a more democratic system might serve its citizens more than its corporations and ban these practices.
Yeah sure, government shall intervene. But…i can probably expect more from anyone else.
And no,I didn’t imply everyone should be expert at everything. That is beyond impossible, even for fractions of fractions of things. But. If you wanna drive a car, you’re forced to learn a shitton and pay like 2k € to be allowed to do so. One of the reasons is safety for others.
If I had no clue about e.g. doorbells, I would ask a pro I know or search the net or whatever. At least the absolute basics of it. Even setting the pure curiosity aside, just to know what the heck I’m getting at. Admitted, I might have much more spare time than the regular Jane or Joe, but I’d still do that if I had to work. Just less intensive.
But yes, this mixture of apathy and ignorance is the leading reason why the internet sucks so much nowadays then 30 or even just 20yrs ago. The majority of absolutely clueless people not knowing how they get fucked and where to draw a line. Sure, to some it’s just a tool they don’t need to know shit about to use it. No judging. BUT that doesn’t change the fact.
What? We can’t make people read setup manual for 30minutes? Might as well stop living now because whats the point of our society if we are defeated by a pamphlet?
Its just sheer laziness. These people are dragging our entire society down because they can’t spend 30 minutes to read the manual. This should be shameful unjustifiable behavior.
Betting 100% that the same people are calling someone else lazy every week without any self awareness.
Oh I’m lazy too (in regards to boring stuff). But I know what I don’t know and would not start to argue about e.g. car-mechanics or buy something without at least getting a basic grasp of that. Lazyness isn’t an excuse for ignorance 😁
So, what are people using to get:
- good quality streaming
- doorbell alert
- motion alerts
- local and remote access
- recording storage
Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.
Ubiquiti. Cloud gateway max (router + NVR) for $200 with no storage, add your own 2tb nvme, get a ubiquiti doorbell for $300. Little pricy, but simple to setup and all the footage lives locally on the cloud gateway max. No subscription, and you can add more cameras later. The cloud gateway max is an excellent 2.5G router. Slap on a WiFi 7 access point for $200 more and you got yourself a killer home network.
This is the choice if you want to buy the equipment and it works out of the box. Its cheaper if you want to sort of build your own setup but requires more maintenance and setup.
It’s solved tech and there are hundreds of alternatives so you can definitely find something local. I’ve heard Netatmo recommended for Europeans (French, gdpr compliant)
There are many other cameras but most have the same potential to do this sort of shit. Sending video to some server you don’t control, on cameras you don’t control because it’s proprietary, isn’t going to cut it if privacy is your goal.
No, most don’t do it.
What is the incentive to do this sort of stuff?
I have a piezoelectric doorbell.
The bell part plugs directly into a wall socket. The button part is completely wireless and batteryless and is affixed near my front door.
Been working like clockwork for a decade to let me know when someone is at the door and I’m home.
If I’m not home, the postman or delivery driver leaves a note to go to the collection center for my package. If it’s a small package not requiring signature, they just leave it at the door or in the mailbox if it fits. None of that changes with a camera.
Why overcomplicate life.
Reolink Doorbell ( Firewalled from connecting outside LAN) + Frigate (self hosted)
You can run all of that on a Raspberry Pi, without third-party access and surveyllance.
Yes I did this years ago in 2013, but the problem for my family was accessing the recordings (basically I never set up remote access outside of our LAN)
I recently adopted a dog who I want to monitor when I’m away from home. So I got a cheap motion tracking in-home camera with cloud storage, and AI identification for people and pets. The AI functions never fucking worked. I already had a Ring camera.
Did a bit of research after realising the cheapo camera was shit, and went for a eufy stack to replace the Ring doorbell and tbr shitty in-house camera.
I now have:
- eufy Video Doorbell
- eufy HomeBase 3, with an added 1TB of storage
- eufy IndoorCam C220
This gives me
- local storage for both cameras on the HomeBase.
- the HomeBase also gives you local AI for (individual) person, (general) pet, vehicle, and package identification. I haven’t tried the vehicle identification.
- streaming in the app for both cameras should work in 2k. I have it set to 1080p. It’s good enough for me.
- continuous recording is an option. I have it set to motion alerts because
- the app gives you motion and doorbell alerts. You can configure how much information you want in the notifications, to prevent video’s from passing through eufy’s servers.
While this happened a few years ago, I’d still suggest to block it from accessing the internet/cloud in your firewall nonetheless.
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/12/01/eufy-cameras-uploading-to-cloud-without-consent/
Even if it’s not on eufy’s end, there could always be a vulnerability.
I use a $40 tp-link video doorbell and it has has all of that.
Just bought a Reolink rln46 NVR and four cameras. I don’t have the doorbell, but every other feature you requested works flawlessly. It records 24/7 in 4K but can stream at lower resolutions if you want when you’re away from home on mobile. You can set what notifications you receive and when you want to receive them. You can even go back and search for events by type in the recorded video when they were never flagged for notification in the first place. I’ve been thoroughly impressed and plan to add to the system in the coming months.
I also use Reolink, including both the NVR and doorbell, and have been very pleased with it.
I don’t like being under constant surveillance from my neighbors doorbell cameras. This is one of many excellent reasons why.
What I am going to do is use MapComplete to start labeling every house that I come across that has one of these doorbells.
Then I’ll post some QR codes around town that link to the map.
Once people start seeing their homes called out on a map then perhaps some of them will feel uncomfortable with that and start to understand just why privacy matters.
LoL, do it!
I mean, people are not being forced to buy this shit. So it’s on the idiots who think they have nothing to hide. Just Google something like “why are people ok with cameras inside their house “ and you’ll see many many people basically saying “don’t care, I have nothing to hide, everyone has a pussy/dick”
We still need to protect the idiots. Thats why we’re banning asbestos and have safety codes. How is this any different?
How is this any different?
IT and privacy is too abstract for non-tech people. Bring examples with people instead of the tech devices to make an impact.
Things like this:
Isn’t roofing too abstract either? 100% majority of people dont know how prevalent asbestos was in roofing material and what even asbestos does but yet if you tell anyone thay their shit has asbestos in it they’ll be quick to rush to alternatives. Sometimes people just need to be told what to do.
That’s right. But how detrimental asbestos is took time to be made abundantly clear and known, plus “authorities” got involved, so the sheep listened. With surveillance, the same “authorities” want the public to be ignorant so that they can keep it going without us countering it.
Similar situations, but certainly not equal.
This is the right approach. Normies won’t pay attention to any “your privacy is at risk” argument. But showing them examples (plural, as 1 instance won’t do shit either and will just be dismissed) of people getting fucked by all the surveillance COULD make some of them take it into consideration (no guarantees).
I do not agree that people that allow these devices into their homes are idiots. I see them more as “ignorantly lazy”.
Not if they are willingly bringing this inside their homes. I think it’s very different from substances that you might not be aware are there and are highly toxic.
People who claim they don’t value privacy are simply ignorant of how this can affect them. They don’t consider the data falling into the wrong hands. Surely they don’t want criminals with unauthorized access at least. It should be obvious that governments don’t always have their best interests either.
I mean, you might think that but you underestimate how willing people are to give up their privacy and freedom just to feel safe.
Not even for feeling safe. For convenience is enough.
The cops can come to them to get video on you. So you’re impacted.
Right but if my neighbor across the street has one, my house is being surveilled a lot more than is theirs.
Yep still glad I’ve never trusted “smart-home” tech.
This is the way.
Just another dang ol’ reson to keep tech outta the house. But honestly, the masses are dumbasses and I am not gonna talk to idiots as much as I can. I really do a a bunch of listening to peoples takes & observations. I’m fairly quiet and appear non judgmental. But deep down all the way to the surface, quietly, I’m like, ”That’s an interesting take”. If necessary, I could incinerate. However, I enjoy allowing people to explain themselves so that whatever questions I may have, are answered. I have to do less work. And that’s great b/c Ima lazy mf’er.
