Yep according to them every hunger related death under a communist government is communists fault but the many famines under capitalism don’t count against their favorite system.
Or like the Memorial to Victims of Communism in Canada that was mostly Nazis and collaborators on it.
I wonder if it would be fairer to count all of them from both sides or have some more selective metric, though that cab be pretty hard to create
When you ignore established agricultural science because it’s too capitalist, and your crops fail, starving a significant portion of your country, yeah that’s kinda the governments fault.
Sitting alone in the highest tower of your mind palace, curtains drawn, coming up with things that happened in the outside world through pure wisdom and common sense
“What exactly am I talking about?” you say, “Well isn’t it obvious?! Everybody knows!”
“communists hate science after all!” you add after a moment’s pause.
Don’t be silly, I ask the nice robed dudes outside to tell me what’s going on in the world in the form of a cool shadow puppet theater.
When bourgeois kulaks burn crops to resist collectivization, it’s the the communists government that’s ignoring science. The more you know
Also comparing the millions of dead from a single country to the millions dead in a global system is a bit disingenuous
They don’t care.
Also they will claim that the death of communism is some widely agreed upon number that is corroborated by numerous organizations and sources.
In reality it is literally like the one single ‘study’ that proved the autism/vaccine connection. It came entirely from the Black Book of Communism in 1999, and all but the main author disavowed it, and despite the obsession with wanting to reach 100 million. The absolute max it could find was 94 million with a ‘most likely’ number of 64 million.
So when they give a death toll of ‘conservatively 100 million’ they are literally pulling it out of nowhere.
Liberals crying about the death toll from communism, when said made up number includes Nazis killed in the Easter theatre.
Liberals mourning nazis out of sheer ignorance seems telling
The people killed by US soldiers in vietnam war also included too. It’s messed up.
As they said, it includes Nazis
Wait… are the liberals actually surprised? Or being sarcastic? And why would liberals be either one of those?
What communist country would you like to live in?
China, Cuba, Vietnam. The first two have a higher life expectancy than the US, the richest country in world history.
China in the 21st century is getting farther and farther from communism. Hell, they protected TESLA from concerned citizens. Not just a corporation, but a foreign corporation.
China is not moving away from communism. I don’t know what you’re referring to with tesla, but tesla has almost no sales in the PRC, and is considered a laughing stock. They stopped presenting at electric car shows in the PRC years ago because they’re too far behind.
Is China State Capitalist?
- The backbone of the economy is state ownership and socialist planning. 24 / 25 of the top revenue companies are state-owned and planned. 70% of the top 500 companies are State-owned. 1, 2 The largest bank, construction, electricity, and energy companies in the world, are CPC controlled entities, subject to the 5 year plans laid out by the central committee.
- Workplace democracy in action in the CPC.
- Is modern day china communist? Is it staying true to communist values?
- Didn’t China go Capitalist with Deng Xiaoping? Didn’t it liberalize its economy? Is China’s drastic decrease in poverty a result of the increase in free market capitalist policies?
- Is the CPC committed to communism?
- The Long Game and Its Contradictions. Audiobook
- The myth of Chinese state capitalism. Did Deng really betray Chinese socialism?
- Tsinghua University- Is Socialism with Chinese Characteristics real socialism, or is it state Capitalism?
- Isn’t China revisionist for having a capitalist sector of the economy, and working with capitalists? Why isn’t it fully planned like the USSR was?
- Castro on why both China and Vietnam are socialist countries.
- Roderic Day - China has billionaires.
- What is socialism with Chinese characteristics (SWCC)?
- How is SWCC not revisionist? How is it any different from Gorbachev’s market reforms?, 2
- Domenico Losurdo - is China state capitalist?, 2
- Did Lenin say anything about Market Socialism, or productivism?
- Vijay Prashad - Is China capitalist?
- Why do Chinese billionaires keep ending up in prison? Why are many billionaires and CEOs going missing? China sentences Ex-Chairman of a major bank, guilty of embezzling ~$100M USD, to death in 2019.
- China cracks down on billionaires - Ben Norton interviews Ian Goodrum
- Do capitalists control the communist party? No, pic
- How the State runs business in China.
I’m specifically mentioning Tesla because China allowed them to silence critics to protect their business interests. Yes, I know that it was done so that Chinese companies could learn from them and later surpass them in making EVs. I wouldn’t call BYD and the like great cars, but neither is Tesla and Tesla still has the gall to charge an arm and a leg for a motorized smart refrigerator.
Some dairy industry execs were imprisoned and/or executed to save face so that’s nice, but parents were also detained for trying to bring attention to the matter in the big formula scandal. Some said that doctors told them to keep quiet.
Business interests go above human rights in China and if a rich person is imprisoned or executed, it’s so the “communists” could save face after a scandal. Normally they’re completely fine with billionaires existing for some reason.
Smells very “corporations are people too” to me. Like the US, but with better infrastructure because Americans can’t even get that right.
The difference is that for the people dying under capitalism, the system is working as intended, and for the people dying under communism, it is not. In both cases, the leaders don’t really care, because it works for them.
When you lift out millions out of poverty and increase life expectancy significantly it’s the communist leaders not caring. The more you know
Yes, because it is never comes at their own expense through self-sacrifice. True leaders eat last, not first.
Please read book. You’re an idealist that has no clue about the subject at hand
How many people died in Soviet Russia again? I forgot
∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]@lemmy.ml3·4 days agoEdit: wait your saying Soviet Russia which means only the RSFSR
Anyone know where this image is from? I keep trying to find it but have never been able to.
∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]@lemmy.ml5·5 days agoThe guy is “Michael Does Life”
Holy shit, thanks. Always thought it was pyrocynical XD
Theres like 3 different tags in the image.
Too bad they’re all laid over each other so you can’t read them.
Not that it would lead to the source, anyways
Levels of whataboutism that would make conservatives proud. Truly quality Lemmy content.
Comparing numbers is not whataboutism. That’s literally why numbers exist in the first place, to compare and count.
Average “whataboutism” fan vs average “comparative analysis” enjoyed
Explain?
Those are libertarians, the"I got mine and fark everybody else" crowd, not liberals.
Communists are liberals, it’s funny seeing how many liberals in the fediverse use it as a slur. Even the anarchists look down on the anti-government people.
And yeah Libertarians are liberal as well, the problem is including everyone else that isn’t authoritarian.
Why do you feel confident to speak on a subject you have clearly spent zero time informing yourself?
Taking political science courses in university and having many books is why I can call out people using liberal incorrectly.
You are indeed incorrectly calling people out.
Maybe you can wipe your ass with those books for all the good they did you.
I took political science classes in college too. They taught the political compass. They lamented ‘polarization.’
If you were too stupid as a child to see that you were being fed slop you can be forgiven. It’s time to use your adult brain to reexamine those things.
∞🏳️⚧️Edie [it/it/its/its/itself, she/her/her/hers/herself, fae/faer/faer/faers/faerself, love/love/loves/loves/loveself, des/pair, null/void, none/use name]@lemmy.ml7·5 days agoTaking political science courses in university
Ah, that explains it
that isn’t authoritarian.
Made up western anti-communist propaganda term
Sounds like some shit Stalin would argue in college
Communists aren’t authoritarian and the concept predates communism. (Communism is a reaction against oppression so arguing criticism against oppression is anti-communist doesn’t make sense)
Ngl I don’t blame anarchists. Public schools explicitly said “communism is when government doess stuff.”
Both are shit
brilliant political analysis
Dumb
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No you didn’t quit lying
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So you grew up in a country where the US staged a coup? Like I said quit lying
Could it be that the imperialist puppet sending death squads has something to do with things being bad?
No, it’s the communists who are bad
Both are true, this is a dumb argument and common bad faith fallacy.
how is it bad faith?
Because it intentionally neglects the harm caused by the Great Leap Forward, or various soviet famines. The statement is designed to deflect attention and responsibility from A to B and use hyperbole to create outrage.
Its possible to argue that both China and the Soviet Union were not actually communism but rather authoritarianism but for the sake of common understanding we will refer to them as they refer(ed) to themselves.
So did millions of people die because of “communism?” the facts say yes. So do millions of people die because of Capitalism? the facts say yes.
Both are true statements, and using hyperbole and outrage to deflect or minimize one or the other is in bad faith.
This is pure projection. The meme doesn’t ‘neglect’ anything.
The statement is designed to deflect attention and responsibility from A to B and use hyperbole to create outrage.
Your objection is essentially that you want to label something as ‘bad’ but not allow the necessary discussion of ‘relative to what?’
Your system deliberately murders an order of magnitude more people but we’re not allowed to talk about it because you say so and we all give a huge shit what you have to say because you’re so well read on the subject lol
We are talking about it, and its not my system its the one I am trapped in, and I still would not want to live in either Russia or China.
I also dont want to live in the US, I want the Star Trek future now, all people have value.
kinda don’t give a shit what you have to say in response to my criticism when you aren’t going to respond to the criticism at all
you can claim to love all good things and hate all bad things
literally zero bearing on what you said or what I said in response
I think that’s because we have a difference of perspective on degrees of bad. I think all deaths caused by capitalism are bad, and equal bad to all the deaths that are the result of authoritarian countries calling themselves communist.
So i fundamentally disagree with the “relative to what” because a life is worth the same regardless of where they live and who they are.
We are able to, and I am talking about the harm, and I am pointing out that this meme is designed to create an emotional response to the 2nd point and not to both points. Thats all, its manipulative and propagandist which makes it in bad faith, and you are welcome to defend either position, I will just disagree.
I think all deaths caused by capitalism are bad, and equal bad to all the deaths that are the result of authoritarian countries calling themselves communist.
You want to obscure the larger number because you want the smaller number to look bad. We’re not allowed to talk about the larger number. We’re not allowed to criticize your side.
So what you just said is a fucking lie, isn’t it? If they were equal you would permit both be examined. You would admit that the one with the larger death count is worse. That’s the exact opposite of what you’re pushing for. Your agenda is at odds with reality.
You don’t actually care about people dying. Your actions betray your rhetoric.
So i fundamentally disagree with the “relative to what” because a life is worth the same regardless of where they live and who they are.
And there you go doubling down. Hollow rhetoric sidestepping the actual objection. Cynical. Deliberate.
I will just disagree.
And I think we can all put together why you disagree (you’re a nazi).
You don’t know what a fallacy is
I choose you! Sophomoric invocation of a fallacy that doesn’t even apply in this situation!
Lol posting a link to a wikipedia article doesn’t actually help your case here
Even BBC doesn’t have it as one of their 7 ways to check
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240709-seven-ways-to-spot-a-bad-argument
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Ok liberal
That’s what happens when shitlibs see this, yes.
This is a conservative talking point… Liberal and communism are left ideals…
Liberals are conservatives who favor nicer marketing.