If we have the will to fight this every 5 minutes, we should have the will to make it so we don’t keep having to. Winning the same battle over and over isn’t victory; it’s just giving the enemy more time and opportunity to define the terms of your defeat.
This is getting comically ridiculous and I’m tired, but I suppose that’s the point.
It is the point. It should be a won war not just a won battle. And I, personally, am already preparing for the final loss. Which is inevitable IMHO.
OK so how do we do that
A law banning the entire attempt to even crate such laws.
I suggest something more physical.
perhaps a certain french invention
Or the Russian one involving not a Microsoft product.
It’s technically a Czech invention, the word is “defenestration”.
Make it mandatory to institute a 5 year trial phase, during which encryption is broken only for politicians and public servants
Imho, a Linux phone would help. Banning encryption is only possible because of GAFAM and their tie over “our” devices. Like android phones loosing sideloading. Meanwhile snikket.org would be a very illegal app in such dystopian future.
based
they won’t stop until they are deposed.
I would bet my right nut on the real reason for all this is some AI-billionaire who aggressively pushes this with moneyz. Having every fart we make soon be analyzed by AI is the best “natural” training there could be.
As a cherry on top is the total surveillance for the state(s). AI will probably do a decent job (despite what the article says) in scanning for potential “threats” to let actual people check.
But I can’t even comprehend the power that would be needed to actually scan every shit by every person every minute. No data center in the world has this oomph. So it has to be a simple keyword-search (in all possible languages, even leetspeek and co?) To forward to ai. And if ai would just report 0.5% as “suspicious” for manual human control, it would be more supermassive than a black hole. This is just not doable and hence defeats it’s fake reason: protecting the kids.
So that kinda just leaves ai-training and selective easy surveillances without court-orders. Which also won’t protect kids. As every criminal out there will find a loophole.
All the current powers that be, private and governmental, can heartily agree that allowing the public to have any expectation of privacy or autonomy is highly undesirable.
Of course, just listen to the CEO of Palantir, he already admitted that that’s his goal. By inference, we can extrapolate that this is the goal of all major business leaders of these companies who are developing AI systems. They need more data to compete with China, and if that requires the West to have authoritarian mass surveillance systems, so be it.
While he’s technically not wrong, i hate the world and where it will continue to go to.
Can we please stop circlejerking AI into everything? The chat control has been in debate before AI was mainstream
I had multiple possible reasons. Total surveillance is enough already, the recent aggressive pushing hints towards another added goal.
You’re free to offer YOUR insight. I don’t even hate AI. I like it.
My insight: EU is not interested in training AI for your corporations, neither are personal chats with likely zero accuracy/factuality good training material, neither is sms-style grammar going to improve any existing AI, everything about this is illogical and pretty stupid. It has always been about control, not… training AI lol
Illogical? Chat is not just about sms-style dumb texts. It’s images and videos. Trillions of freshly taken photographs. Those are tremendously valuable. And even if it’d be just text, it’s natural training on people. But it’s also video calls, another incredibly valuable thing.
And sure, the EU has no AI to offer, hence I said “some ai billionaire” or anyone or lobby that wants that shit being pushed hard.
But as it is just a thought of a possibility I might totally be wrong. As if peasants like us would ever be allowed to know.
Again, that is not a good training material. There have been numerous studies on the type of training data we feed and the result of it. This type of content tends to poison the data and lead to equalivent of brainrot for AI’s. This is not very useful data for AI, there are far better sources. Again, seems highly illogical the EU would do all this just to train some shitty AI. Training material should also always be accompanied by context data, which is commonly missing from instant messaging. It’s just too big of a mess.
Fair points. But “just” surveillance? Anyone worth being surveiled sure wouldn’t be so dumb to use WhatsApp or other stupid crap. I’m worthless to surveillance and even I would not be possible to surveil.
Just seems weird that it’s pushed so hard. Surveillance was always a must-have, but why now? The moment it gets voted away it’s back on the table.
Counter-argument: all my drug dealers use whatsapp. Real life is not movies, criminals are rarely tech savvy.
I will move to Linux phone if chat control is enforced. Chat control violates all existing privacy regulations. It’s insane.
That won’t work in the sense on page 35, Article 2 definition (f) it says that this applies to
(ii)an interpersonal communications service; (iv) an internet access service;as well, meaning your phone provider and ISP. It’s highly the approach to enforce this would couple e-SIM and some app on your phone or computer that things have to be routed through. Or you just don’t get cell/internet service.
This has not yet happened even in the most authoritarian jurisdictions, with the possible exception of North Korea. The Internet is built with open protocols so any restrictions will have to be implemented on the network edge. There is no vendor locking for on-prem routers in multiple countries. As long as all purpose computers are not illegal you can still use strong encryption and anonymizing services on your end devices on your own network. So any mandatory surveillance and tracking will have no power there.
I would be happy to be wrong.
The entire “proposal” is absolutely crazy from start to finish anyway. It’s just that these companies will have to do ______ or be labeled or held liable for aiding in the distribution of CP.
Who knows what they will come up with.
Such a tech restriction would instantly kill hotspot capability of a phone. Not that I think they corrupt traitors in the EU wouldn’t want to try it anyways.
I think the strategy used the world-over, is to surveil everyone and build network graphs. You may work extremely hard to secure your device and communications, but the algorithms will build up a dossier on you based on all of the people you associate with who are less capable or motivated. Machine learning is insanely good at filling in missing data in an information rich dataset.
And coming soon, Chat Control 3: It Was Never About The Children
Oh, it is. Whoever masters Chat Control, gets to decide whom they can blackmail and rendezvous. Especially the underaged.
Police and triple-letter agencies abuse information all the time to stalk their lovers or to get ahead in life. I bet this will be more of the same.
Hey, anyone care to explain what the fuck is wrong with Denmark?
It’s sort of funny they have the reputation as one of the least corrupt countries in the world. It’s funny because when you say that something is incapable of being vulnerable in some way, that means at the very least that they are fertile grounds waiting to invite it.
The public does not consider corruption a major problem in Danish society means those that are corrupt can get away with more because of less supervision. The OCDE has serious concerns about the lack of enforcement of bribery paid by Danish companies abroad and the Danske Bank money laundering scandal, which was the largest money laundering scandal ever in Europe and possibly the largest in world (at least until the Trump era), involved - you guessed it - Russian (among other USSR remnants) money laundering. Denmark will do what is good for Denmark, but Denmark is not the EU.
Dunno, my perception of Nordic countries has always been that they have (of course, they’re human) corruption, they have organized crime and they have all kinds of social rot, but they also have no reservations in admitting having those or barriers at discussing and trying to help those, which was the reason for nicer things in their societies. Though inside that perception Denmark has always been the worst.
Still, it’s all dynamics, and of course thinking you’re set causes failures.
Russian money laundering is honestly not as big a problem as the degree of penetration of Russian state secret agents, which both inside Russia and outside is beyond what you’d reasonably expect. If you think a 13 years old girl can’t be an agent, you’re wrong. If you think such agents can’t be a common enough thing, you’re wrong. If you think it’s limited to Russian/ex-USSR nationals and their relatives, you’re wrong.
And that’s the state of affairs during late USSR, these services haven’t become less professional, the world since then was changing fast enough to sharpen them, but also in ways where they always had the resources to survive hardship and learn.
I don’t know what the supreme goals of what one can call Russia’s deep state are, and whether I would consider them something good or bad, but I’m sure western reactions to their actions are all 10-20 years late.
Denmark’s social democrats were doing rough for a while against the conservatives and far right. After the immigration wave of 2015 they changed their stance (like most Nordics and the EU in general) towards an anti-immigration and xenophobe stance.
This delivered them great success in elections due to them appropriating the popular talking points of the far right. Prior to this here in Norway, the social democrats, even as they were doing badly themselves, joked for some time that at least they were doing better than social democrats of Denmark.
TL;DR The Nordic social democrats, with Denmark in the lead, want to be toughest in class on crime and immigration to do well in elections.
In my opinion, this is just an internal contradiction of late stage capitalism, for which their ideology is not capable to compensate.
They’ve always been the weird ones
I wish I could tell you, but for all the cool and sensible things we have her, Denmark comes with… this.
What the fuck is this, Denmark?
The Meeting was today at 10am. Has there been any news about it yet?
I too am very interested
For fuck saks. This is so deceitful
I give it about a month before they’re scanning your teens and banning your texts.
Like trying to control une herde de la chats
