Authors using a new tool to search a list of 183,000 books used to train AI are furious to find their works on the list.
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Trick is educating the octogenarians in the senate to understand any of what you just wrote.
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One less to educate now. Hopefully replaced by someone that doesn’t need diapers.
The people I’m seeing outraged are artists and authors who did not sign their ideas over for public access or for disingenuous use. not a faceless publisher with cloth bags and dollar signs painted on them. Also I don’t think you understand what public and private ownership means. A person is allowed to privately own their own creation. They don’t owe that to the world. The world isn’t entitled to it.
You can do this open source right now
This is no different than every other capitalist enterprise. The whole system works on taking a public resource, claiming private ownership of it, and then selling it back to the public for profit.
First it was farmland, then coal and minerals, oil, seafood, and now ideas. Its how the system works and is the whole reason people have been trying to stop it for the past 150 years.
The people making the laws are there because they and/or their parents and/or grandparents did the exact same thing. As despicable and corrupt as it is you won’t change it by complaining and no-one is going to make a law to stop it.
Here’s an idea, legally force companies like OpenAI to rely on opt-in data, rather then build their entire company on stealing massive amounts of data. That includes requiring to retrain from scratch. Sam Altman was crying for regulations for scary AI, right?
Would search engines only be allowed to show search results for sources that had opted in? They “train” their search engine on public data too, after all.
They aren’t reselling their information, they’re linking you to the source which then the website decides what to do with your traffic. Which they usually want your traffic, that’s the point of a public site.
That’s like trying to say it’s bad to point to where a book store is so someone can buy from it. Whereas the LLM is stealing from that bookstore and selling it to you in a back alley.
AI isn’t either. It’s selling statistical data about the books.
It literally shares passages verbatim
So does any site that quotes the book. Just being trained on a work doesn’t give the model the ability to cite it word for word. For most of the books in this set you wouldn’t even be able to get a single accurate quote out of most models. The models gain the ability to cite passages from training on other sources citing these same passages.
That’s maybe an issue. I mirror speech a lot, though. How large are the passages?
That claim is disingenuous at best, and misinformed otherwise.
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LLMs can’t reprint their entire training data on demand. They rarely even remember quotes.
Don’t bother shouting into the AI misinformation void.
People aren’t going to put down their pitchforks and torches to brush up on basic ML principles and it’s just going to frustrate you engaging.
It’s going to be a non-issue within 24 months anyways.
No matter how the OpenAI court cases land, the writing is on the wall that the next generations of models are going to be built on the backs of synthetic data, which is inherently without copyright.
At best rulings against OpenAI mean a secondary market emerges in China for repackaging copyrighted data into synthetic data of equivalent value to help buffer SotA synthetic data in avoiding model collapse.
It’s not even going to end up amounting to a minor speedbump to progress by the time the court cases are finalized.
Let the armchair activists rant and rage and tire themselves out worrying about a fabricated version of reality, and just focus more on staying informed about actual reality for yourself when all this passes.
It will be years before people eventually drop the bias against AI we self-instilled from shortsighted Sci-Fi over the past few decades, and until then the average person online will be irrationally upset about something related to the tech. Might as well run themselves ragged over the misinformed “it just remixes copyright” in the meantime.
On the one hand, I agree with your estimation of how things will go overall.
On the other hand, though, I think there’s value to be had in pushing back against the misinformation whenever it comes up. I don’t think AI is going to be hindered by it in the long run, but it’s possible that in the short run it’s going to kill interesting projects and harm some of the people who are experimenting with it.
And I have seen technologies that have suffered from longer-term difficulties once the zeitgeist turned against them despite having technical merit. There are useful applications for NFTs to be had out there, for example, but just try mentioning them when the opportunity arises and see what sort of reaction you get.
I mean, yeah? They were running to a concrete description. That is not valid. My brain has most of Terry Pratchett’s works.
I hope they can at least get compensated.
So where can I check to see if my book was used? I published a book.
Did you ever comment on Reddit before 2015? If so, your copyrighted material was used to train the modern LLMs even if your published book wasn’t used at all.
Yes I did my account is almost 11years old on Reddit. But I was talking about my novel that was never on Reddit.
What about my Reddit history?
Arguably there’s more of my text there that was used to train these LLMs than most authors in that list.
The comment elsewhere in this thread about models built on broad public data needing to be public in turn is a salient one.
IP laws were designed to foster innovation, not hold it back.
I’d much rather see a world where we have open access models trained broadly and accelerating us towards greener pastures than one where book publishers get a few extra cents from less capable closed models that take longer for us to reach the heyday where LLMs can do things like review the past 20 years of cancer research in order to identify promising trends in allocation of future resources.
OpenAI should probably rightfully be dinged for downloading copyrighted media the same way any average user would be sued when caught doing the same.
But the popular arguments these days for making training infringement are ass backwards and a slippery slope to a far more dystopian future than the alternative.
they were compensated when the company using the book, purchased the book. you can’t tell me what to do with the words written in the book once I’ve purchased it. nor do you own the ideas or things I come up with as a result of your words in your book. of course this argument only holds up if they purchased the book. if it was “stolen” then they are entitled to the $24.95 their book costs.
That’s the thing – they weren’t.
The case has two prongs.
One is that training the AI on copyrighted material is somehow infringement, which is total BS and a dangerous path for the world to go down.
The other is that copyrighted material was illegally downloaded by OpenAI, which is pretty much an open and shut case, as they didn’t buy up copies of 100k books, they basically torrented them.
And because of ridiculous IP laws bought by industry lobbyists in the dawn of the digital age, the damages are more like $250,000 per book if willful infringement, not $24.95.
Had they purchased them, these cases would very likely be headed for the dumpster heap.
That said, there’s a certain irony to Lemmy having pirate subs as one of the most popular while also generally being aggressively pro-enforcement on IP infringement.
Training AI on copyrighted material is infringement and I’ll die on that hill. It’s use of copyrighted material to create a commercial product. Doesn’t get any more clear cut than that.
I know as an artist/musician/photographer I’d rather not put my creations out there at all if it means some corporation is going to be able to steal it.
Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair.
This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below.
Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work.
You can stand wherever you like on any hill you’d like, but the question of nonprofit use vs commercial use is only one part of determining fair use, and where your stance is going to have serious trouble is the fact that the result of the training is extremely transformed from the training data, with an entirely different purpose and character and cannot even reproduce any of the works used in training in their entirety. And the areas where they can reproduce in part are likely not even the direct result of using the work itself in training, but additional reinforcement from other additional secondary uses and quotations of the reproducible parts of works in question.
And don’t worry. Within about a year or so (by the time any legal decision gets finalized or new legislation is passed) no one is going to care about ‘stealing’ your or anyone else’s creations, as training is almost certainly moving towards using primarily synthetic data and curated content creation to balance out edge cases.
Use of preexisting works was a stepping stone hack that acted like jumper cables starting the engine. Now that it’s running, there’s a rapidly diminishing need for the other engine.
Edit: And you’d have a very hard time convincing me that StableDiffusion using Studio Ghibli movies to train a neural network that can produce new and different images in that style is infringement while Weiden+Kennedy commercially making money off of producing this ad is not.
Good point. I guess this aspect is much different from the AI Art scene, where the producers of the dataset are usually not compensated for their drawings.
Yea I hope they get their $1 for their contribution
Ok so it’s been stealing art now it’s coming for authors. At what point do we hold the coalition who started this shit culpable for numerous accounts of plagiarism?
TIL “culpable” is an English word too. Culpable means guilty in Spanish and I thought you were a Spanish speaker doing spanglish. Now I know you’re just a man of culture.
Curious if the AI company actually bought those books or if they just came across them by pirating.
Everyone’s a fan of fair use until it’s their work that is transformed.
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Absolutely agree
There’s an idea by Barath Raghavan about an AI dividend that companies pay each netizen a share for the data they use to train these models.
I am into this idea if companies can’t even do a simple opt-in mechanism.
Does this fall under fair-use part of copyright?
It hasn’t been tested in court yet but I don’t see why it shouldn’t.
The training argument is probably going to come up dry by the time the court works its way through expert testimony, as the underlying argument for training as infringement is insane.
But where OpenAI is probably in hot water is that torrenting 100k books in the first place runs afoul of existing copyright legislation.
Everyone is debating the training in these suits, but the real meat and potatoes is going to be the initial infringement of obtaining the books, not how they were subsequently used.
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This troll isn’t even good, why bother?
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I agree with them that an idea can’t be owned but it’s a misunderstanding of “AI” to compare it to artistic inspiration
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This isn’t a troll, it’s a valid counterargument. Dismissing it is not a useful response.
I would be proud, but you do you.
But would you get paid?
Yes. People wouldn’t be able to pirate my story through an AI, it wouldn’t spit it out verbatim. They’d still need to buy or pirate it other ways.
They don’t need to, the AI just tells them what happens. Why are you against the author being able to consent for their work to be trained on and being compensated?
You think spoilers should be illegal?
I know, right? It’s weird.
?
You appear to be saying that:
the AI just tells them what happens
Is a violation of the author’s copyright.
