International sentiment generally negative about country actively committing genocide.
More at 11.
Jokes aside - yeah? Of course there’s propaganda about China. I would wager its hard to find a big international power that doesn’t have some level of propaganda being spread about it by the other big international powers. But between the propaganda you still find a bunch of real reasons to have negative views toward China’s leadership and actions.
- Uyghur genocide (ongoing)
- authoritarian rule with huge censorship of outside media I really don’t need to go on
Can we add bellicose relations with a lot of their neighbors over the expansionist goals they’re pushing?
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Does…that make all those things okay then?
you’re free to argue the points you have been in the rest of the thread, but genocide denialism is a no-go.
Got to wonder if you’d be this lenient with someone denying the holocaust, too?
Barely even a slap on the wrist (“no-go”? Seriously?), not even removed the blatant genocide denial.
So is it that you don’t think any genocide denial is really that big a deal and not even worth removing, or is just the deniers of the genocide being perpetrated by the state you ignorantly support, that you’re happy to turn a blind eye to and continue platforming?
At least have some fucking integrity and don’t pretend to care when you clearly don’t, but this reaction? Is genuinely pathetic.
Fuck, I really wish you tankie bootlickers would stop falsely claiming communism and defending genocide and other atrocities committed in its name by authoritarian dictators (also falsely claiming it, to gain the support of wilfully ignorant enablers like yourself), you’re really are fucking it up for those of us who actually want to be free.
Barely even a slap on the wrist (“no-go”? Seriously?), not even removed the blatant genocide denial.
you’re posting from kbin–the comment isn’t removed for you because you aren’t on our site and kbin is dogshit for propagating removals.
Fair enough, my bad on that, but you’re still allowing them a platform when they’re clearly spreading pro genocide-committing CCP propaganda.
If this was an article whining that Anti-American Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media, and op was in the comments defending the war in Afghanistan, or immigrant children in cages and women forcibly sterilised, I don’t doubt it would have been removed in a flash, and rightfully so. China and America are both oppressive and destructive capitalist superpowers smearing each other to keep us distracted from the handful in each country hoarding all of the resources. The existence of competing propaganda really isn’t news.
Bottom line is by not banning op or at least removing this post you’re still enabling and even showing support to a literal genocide denier, they’re not even trying to hide it. You can’t tout yourselves as a platform for socialism and equality while allowing people like OP the space to promote the exact opposite.
If this was an article whining that Anti-American Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media, and op was in the comments defending the war in Afghanistan, or immigrant children in cages and women forcibly sterilised, I don’t doubt it would have been removed in a flash, and rightfully so.
then you’re assuming incorrectly–we give people some latitude to have dumb, incorrect takes that people disagree with or aren’t popular here, and having one of those takes is not unto itself a bannable offense. this is especially and frequently true if it receives a lot of pushback because it provides a record of where the community stands and what the community finds acceptable, which is socially useful information for observers. this is outlined quite extensively in our moderator philosophy and has been pretty much since we took off. in any case, the idea that everything anyone posts here is tacitly endorsed by having been posted and not removed is a goofy standard for any social media website.
X for doubt (especially since I’ve seen what kind of content does gets instantly removed/banned around here, and this is definitely not op’s first “mistake”) E: though if you are being serious about allowing such content, it only makes your stance worse - I thought this instance was meant to be a safe space, but I guess the people impacted by these violent and oppressive acts don’t deserve protection if it goes against the, what, equal opportunity genocide denier platform? As a grandchild of holocaust survivors, this is a huge blaring warning alarm telling me to stay away (which I will, don’t worry).
Either way, all you’ve shown here is that you find CCP propaganda acceptable to the point of defending its existence in your space, and while you might not be comfortable admitting it, that’s you picking a side.
Thanks for confirming.
Lemmy.ml user
I read this ‘article’. There are zero references towards the so called ‘China Bashing’. If it is so rampant, how hard can it be to just link to a few mainstream offenders? It alludes towards a deliberate bashing, once again without any links or merit. I am fully aware that news is hardly unbiased but come on, this is ridiculous.
like, just off the top of my head there’s that whole “spy balloon” thing.
A Chinese corporation openly tested those spy balloons over my country a decade ago (allegedly just for monitoring livestock), why is it so unbelievable that they’d use a more polished version on their biggest geopolitical rival?
Give me a source that shows the blatant and deliberate anti China rhetoric about the ‘spy balloon’.
U.S. president Biden … however stated that it was “not a major breach”, and that he also believed that the Chinese leadership wasn’t even aware of the balloon. … On September 17, 2023, in an interview with CBS news, General Mark Milley, the retiring 20th US chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stated “I would say it was a spy balloon that we know with high degree of certainty got no intelligence, and didn’t transmit any intelligence back to China." Technical experts had also found that the balloon’s sensors had never been activated while it was travelling over the Continental United States. The general also touched on a leading theory that the reason that it was flying over the United States, was probably because it was blown off-track, where the balloon had been heading towards Hawaii however winds at 60,000 feet simply came into the equation. Miley said, “those winds are very high… the particular motor on that aircraft can’t go against those winds at that altitude.” c
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Chinese_balloon_incident
TLDR: Unbeknownst to China’s leadership, one of their balloons blew off-track (hardly a rare occurence). It didn’t collect or transmit any intelligence.
But if you watched the media coverage of that incident, you’d likely come to a different conclusion. For example:
Chinese spy balloon gathered intelligence from sensitive U.S. military sites, despite U.S. efforts to block it
So funny how that all got memory holed and now you have people who genuinely still think it was a spy balloon of some kind (even in these very replies!) because they just never read anything past the headlines and never followed up on it after. Just completely lacking any curiosity or news literacy but will still scoff at the thought of them being victims of very obvious propaganda haha
Have you been following media recently or have you been living under a rock?
That’s not a defense. Opinion pieces can be fine, but if you’re claiming that something is off the charts you should probably have some charts (or any points of data) to prove the claim.
Then… Disprove it? If there’s such distinct evidence that counters the article, might as well use it in your argument lol
That’s not how the burden of proof goes. The article is making a claim. It’s on the article’s authors to prove it.
Again, if you have such a strong argument, why don’t you use it?
The person is saying the article doesn’t prove their claim at all; they’re not necessarily saying the article is wrong
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Can you prove that China isn’t an oppressive authoritarian capitalist state?
Do I need to? I haven’t had a visceral reaction to the article.
For what it’s worth, China’s affirmative action policies for minority groups put the US to shame. Significantly easier college admissions (despite using a standardized process), extremely generous business loans, proportional ethnic representation in government, vast infrastructure projects to bridge the salary gap, and celebrations of different cultures across the country. Not very capitalist of them, given that these infrastructure projects (while very beneficial to the endpoints) are not profitable.
Nobody else has had a visceral reaction, we’ve just pointed out bad journalism 🙂 Using big negative words might make you feel better, but it doesn’t make them accurate. You’re using them to be dismissive of our points
Treating minorities better than the USA isn’t exactly a high bar.
My country also treats minorities better than the USA, it’s easy to get into uni, celebrates diversity, has an alright social welfare system and socialised healthcare, does the occasional infrastructure project etc.
Thanks for teaching me that I’m actually living in a socialist paradise rather than a poor, neoliberal capitalist, physically isolated island where private corporations are free to wreck the environment for profit!
Significantly easier college admissions (despite using a standardized process), extremely generous business loans, proportional ethnic representation in government, vast infrastructure projects to bridge the salary gap, and celebrations of different cultures across the country. Not very capitalist of them
Sorry OP but basically none of this has anything to do with not being capitalist. I don’t even doubt that China is doing better in those departments than America, but that has more to do with how utterly shit America is at most things outside of building bombs than how communist China is. They should get some kudos for executing a couple billionaires, though, gotta at least give 'em that.
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I have been following media intensively. I am not saying that news about China is unbiased in the western media. I am calling out the lack of any sources in this weak ‘article’
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As far as news outlets go, The Diplomat is rather well-regarded
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As an opinion piece, sources are usually implicit (since opinion pieces use the reader’s own knowledge of current events as the context)
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The article points to this article for more context: https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china
1 I don’t know this outlet, nor am inclined to use perceived pedigree to determine the quality of news. I’d like to see sources, not news dresses as opinions. 2 Opinion pieces that try to be credible need sources or else I will disregard them as petty trolling. The title makes a bold claim, I want sources backing up that claim. 3 that ‘source’ is also an opinion peace without any sources.
Just show me where mainstream media is deliberately bashing China. If it’s that rampant it can’t be that hard right?
Again, have you been living under a rock for the past few years? You can even look at the top posts of this community.
I’m not the one making bald claims. The onus is on the one with the claims. Just show me some sources!
Again, 🤦♀️
The evidence is right in front of you, yet you refuse to see it
that ‘source’ is also an opinion peace without any sources.
?
The source of that article are the authors. One a professor at Oxford, the other a lecturer at MIT. The professor’s also written a book about China which is mentioned at the bottom of the article. Pretty weak argument to say that isn’t a valid source. A bit like an anti-vaxxer saying an article about vaccination written by a doctor isn’t a valid source in an internet argument.
Just show me where mainstream media is deliberately bashing China. If it’s that rampant it can’t be that hard right?
I googled myself, because I was curious. Not necessarily bashing, but plenty of sensationalism. For example, NBC at the time of the balloon incident:
Spy balloon likely sent extensive intelligence to China, experts say. The Pentagon said Thursday it ‘acted immediately’ to counter a collection of sensitive information
China ‘spy balloon’ wakes up world to new era of war at edge of space
Why the Chinese balloon crisis could be a defining moment in the new Cold War
U.S. president Biden … however stated that it was “not a major breach”, and that he also believed that the Chinese leadership wasn’t even aware of the balloon. … On September 17, 2023, in an interview with CBS news, General Mark Milley, the retiring 20th US chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, stated “I would say it was a spy balloon that we know with high degree of certainty got no intelligence, and didn’t transmit any intelligence back to China." Technical experts had also found that the balloon’s sensors had never been activated while it was travelling over the Continental United States. The general also touched on a leading theory that the reason that it was flying over the United States, was probably because it was blown off-track, where the balloon had been heading towards Hawaii however winds at 60,000 feet simply came into the equation. Miley said, “those winds are very high… the particular motor on that aircraft can’t go against those winds at that altitude.”
Media: the Chinese are spying on us. Are you ready for WAR?
Reality: the wind blew a balloon of course and by now most of us have already forgotten what turned out to be a nothing burger of a story.
I think that the concern was not that the articles like the ones you link to do not exist. Instead the complaint is that the posted piece did not itself link to them to back up the claim. These were likely quite easy for you to find and it’s poor journalism that the author did not put in the same effort.
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This is an important difference that always gets left out in these articles.
Of course people will be anti-China when the CCP is making the movies (edit, I meant “moves” but movies works too haha). It’s one thing to ask for companies to make a version of media specifically for your country, but using your weight to make that the version? That is an insanely big red flag when Tencent has roots in everything and also goes by the whim of the party.
On the flip side, my friend from college moved to China a couple years after we graduated and he’s been doing really, really well. He loves it there. Ironically he ended up getting a job with Tencent and is a pretty big part of their last released Synced. So I’m glad he’s doing well, but it’s also been weird talking about certain topics with him. It was also weird when I was asking about how he was talking with me and he’s like “oh I just have to get on a VPN and etc so I that’s why I’m not around much, but it’s cool lol.” Kinda freaky when I also just see the articles about a company getting fined for using a VPN. I’m sure he’ll be fine but it’s still slightly worrying.
Which ultimately kind of sums up the situation. My friend loved his experience in China so much so that he moved back there seemingly permanently and set himself up with a nice life with the culture seeming to be a big part of that. And then there’s the actions of the government. Many of the same criticisms can absolutely be held toward the U.S. regarding housing and towards a not-so-small portion our political actions, however it seems the difference is that we don’t have a knitted corporate government quite yet. I dunno, the sway of Apple, MS, whoever else just doesn’t have the same weight as the CCP and Tencent. That generally seems to be peoples issue
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I dunno, the sway of Apple, MS, whoever else just doesn’t have the same weight as the CCP and Tencent.
The fact that you name Apple and Microsoft makes me think there is a blind spot here. If you are taking about big tech with it’s tendrils in US policy I’d go for Google and Facebook. Big pharma and the military industrial complex are even bigger issues. These industries don’t just undermine the US but harm the global community as well. Then you have think tanks, often funded by capital, shaping narratives and foreign policy.
I more just didn’t want to list more than 3 companies, hence “whoever else”. You’re right that Google and Facebook are closer to the tendrils of Tencent than MS or Apple, or well, Apple at least.
The government of the United States is also highly untrustworthy, but plenty of other nation’s governments engage and cooperate with the US. This isn’t whataboutism, it’s evidence that there must be other factors.
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certain factions within the US government have been untrustworthy.
between far-right, corporate factions and those groups that actually defend some semblance of democratic liberty.
This just sounds like a whole lot of liberal US apologia. It isn’t actually far off from regressive phrases like MAGA or A Few Bad Apples. There was no golden time when the US has been a bastion of freedom and human welfare and it mostly shows signs of getting worse, and you cannot fix the US by removing a few politicians.
Are they at all comparable as reflections of the viability of each respective state’s potential to sustain human liberty? No.
I don’t see what the point is of picking two specific events when we are discussing nations and governments as a whole. Taken in totality the US does not and has not ever shown signs of sustaining liberty as you put it. The law and order system is a joke, human welfare is a joke, safety is a joke, education is a joke, foreign policy is a joke. A lot of these fundamental issues are completely ignorable for the privileged, and the last one ignorable if you live in the US itself, but I am not looking to have liberty for some and not others.
You’re not required to sing the praises of the US, but acknowledging the meaningful degree of difference is critical to preventing the world sliding further into an authoritarian paradigm.
I disagree. I think what you’re doing right now is what strengthens authoritarianism in “Western” countries. Always framing Western countries, especially the US, as the lesser of two evils just justifies nationalism and militarism and downplays the need for radical change. What’s the point of this liberty you speak of if we don’t use it to criticize our own governments, and why stop at just criticism? The truth is you’ll only realize how thin your liberty actually is when you actually pose a threat.
But I’m not sure how we got on this tangent. I was simply responding to the notion of geopolitical trust and how that relates to the US and China. The US reneges on international agreements all the time or simply does not adhere to them. The government also partakes in the manipulation of foreign governments, extrajudicial murders in foreign countries in “times of peace”, and sabotages countries with embargos. All of this should make the US untrustworthy, but the unspoken part is that when we talk about trust we are taking about among Western countries. These nations have some shared geopolitical goals and because the US’s violations aren’t against these nations but against ones where say the common religion is different or the people have a darker average complexion they can be ignored.
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Better tell all the people critical of the Chinese government on weibo that they’re in jail lol
That’s right. Because not every single person is in jail, no problem exists. /s
How about this: even putting one person in jail because of political opinion is an oppressive, undemocratic action.
Better tell that to literally every government on the planet, then.
Jailing dissidents is government oppression, but it’s a type of government oppression that happens in every major government, democratic or not. Welcome to the real world.
This post was about China, not other countries. What China is doing is an atrocity and your whataboutism doesn’t change that.
Yeah, like Naomi Wu, famous in the maker community, who tried her best to provide a nuanced view of China before pissing off the wrong group of people and going radio silent for good.
And the fact that she was able to operate for years without issue, despite being critical of the regime for most of that period?
Oh. Right. We don’t talk about that part. Her existence both contradicts and supports your point.
Thanks for displaying your ignorance. You obviously don’t know her story, because she’s never been openly critical of China. Rather, she’s always tried to be an ambassador for China within her community. Unfortunately, some of her actions pissed off the wrong people.
https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes
Have you watched her content lol
Yes? She dresses sexy, but that doesn’t change anything I’ve said
Everyday people need to remember the difference between the general Chinese population and the CCP. The Chinese people are wonderful. The CCP is horrific, and working tirelessly to create their own version of hell.
I second this. I love Chinese people and culture, hell, I’m even learning Chinese to be able to communicate with my Chinese gf’s parents, however CCP ≠ Chinese people.
However, when you travel in China, you don’t have to travel far before you realise that broadly the Chinese support their government because things are getting better and in many places are on par or better than the west.
I don’t think I’ll ever voluntarily go to China. I’ve said bad things about the CCP, so I’ll most likely be on some kind of list.
As for your other claims, i honestly doubt it.
I love how you start off by saying you’ve never been to China and you never intend to go, then immediately discard the claims of someone that’s been there a lot.
You’re not the only person I know who been to China.
Ha ha fair enough.
Does that version of hell include transit, affordable housing, education, upwards mobility, and healthcare?
Yeah that’s true. As long as there is good transit, everything is fine. That Hitler guy built the autobahn. Must have been a great leader.
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Westerners? I’m foreign-born Chinese, and you couldn’t pay me to enter China. My anti-ccp sentiments combined with their sense of ownership of all Chinese people regardless of birth nation means I’m probably on a low priority list somewhere.
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Just gonna drop an article about Naomi Wu, famous maker, as a counterpoint to all those who keep claiming free speech exists in China.
https://www.hackingbutlegal.com/p/naomi-wu-and-the-silence-that-speaks-volumes
By that, you mean criticism of China’s known actions that are detrimental to their neighboring countries and the world?
If you want to call that “anti-China”, then sure, but it’s an appropriate reason to be, just as appropriate as being “anti-Russia”.
Pro-China Rhetoric Is Off the Charts in Chinese Media
Stop the press!
China is the one county that could just tell Russia to get out of Ukraine. Same with North Korea. Just look at who they hang out with and you know quite a lot.
Why would they? The Global South is completely unaligned with the West on the Russia-Ukraine issue. It’s an issue between Russia and the West, not a global issue.
It’s a human rights issue. People like you and me are dying.
Why should the Global South care? People are dying there, too. We have a spoiled Western perspective.
For the same reason that the West should care about people being murdered around the world: it’s a human rights violation.
Of course they would not. They have chosen to be aligned with Russia. This whole thing is a Russia / China thing.
The entire Global South is aligned on this issue.
I guess they don’t matter to you because they’re poor.
Most of the global south is aligned in staying out of it as much as possible. Their self interest is to play nice to all sides and play all sides.
It is not the entire global south. I think Australia and Taiwan would both feel differently. Very convenient of you to forget that. From the original UN vote it showed that the Russian invasion was widely condemned through out the world including global south with some notable exceptions too.
Do you even know what the term Global South refers to? Given that you refer to Australia as being part of the Global South, I’m going to assume not.
Don’t talk about things you don’t understand.
And you would not be correct.
Many countries included in the Global South are in the northern hemisphere, such as India, China and all of those in the northern half of Africa. Australia and New Zealand, both in the southern hemisphere, are not in the Global South
Time Magazine
It was generally agreed that the Global North would include the United States, Canada, England, nations of the European Union, as well as Singapore, Japan, South Korea, and even some countries in the southern hemisphere: Australia, and New Zealand. The Global South, on the other hand, would include formerly colonized countries in Africa and Latin America, as well as the Middle East, Brazil, India, and parts of Asia.
Gendered Lives: Global Issues
Do you just enjoy being wrong?
While it is true that insane propaganda is off the charts, for example in my own country Australia we’re chaining ourselves to the fading star of the usa and the UK militarily despite having:
- different trade interests
- different geopolitical interests
- different cultural interests
all while the usa government tries it’s hardest to undermine our economic policy, erase our culture, and distort our politics towards their own demended lines.
There is zero evidence the chinese government does not want to do the same. They have interfered in our media, our education systems, there has been stupid petty trade squabbles with both “sides” using us for their own ends.
When chinese diplomats speak to our media, even in excruciatingly fair interviews, the pattern is the same slimey deny deny deny and legal quibble that usa diplomats engage in. Their media is insanely critical of Australian life too.
There are no good guys in this power struggle and looking for one is childish thinking.
Even this article refuses to address the notion that the chinese government has ever conducted itself in a condemnable manner.
As an American, I thought our cultures were relatively similar being both former British colonies. What different cultural interests are you referring to?
we elected a socialist in the 70s. It ended in a constitutional crisis and his successor was groomed by the CIA. rhymes with certain things no?
we had a publicly owned transport system, telephony, healthcare system, a thriving public service. Then we started getting leaned on.
We had a collectivist culture, government funding for our own media with our own values, then we started getting leaned on.
It goes on.
Even our slang is being replaced, people are pronouncing things your way, the media of the usa is replacing everything and that’s intentional government policy.
We had a collectivist culture, government funding for our own media with our own values, then we started getting leaned on.
This is hilarious to point out when you consider Rupert Murdoch has done more to change American politics than probably anyone else in the last 50 years, but you’re gonna complain about the US “leaning on” Australia? Sorry but that just screams of shirking responsibility for your own country’s problems.
Everything is feedback cycles. Yes there’s homegrown bullshit but it’s naive to ignore how that is encouraged by for example the usa exporting neoliberalism and encouraging/bullying other countries to deregulate their own markets (like media ownership that lets people like Murdoch rise) for favourable political treatment.
It’s naive to ignore that when usa media, usa products, usa megacorps all arrive somewhere that they wont swing the culture.
The usa has almost certainly interfered in our elections ffs.
Being a country the usa has military interest in is incredible corrosive. It’s not just Australia where this has happened.
Not Australian or American, but hey it’s the internet so why not voice second hand knowledge: I heard Aussies pride themselves on being (relatively) egaliatarian, despising individuals elevating themselves above others. Seems to me about as antithetical to US mentalitity as it goes :)
McCarthyism’s back yo! Or, rather, it never really left.
McCarthyism has changed because now the “communists” look different and talk different and aren’t white.
Woke is the new Red I guess?
Thanks for the self-report. thediplomat filtered.
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It’s an option in Sync for lemmy.
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Here's a short summary of the linked article
Mainstream Western media frequently engages in relentless China-bashing by regurgitating trivial or fabricated stories without evidence. Positive stories about China are rare. Reporting typically adheres to three ideas - that China is a threat, must be linked to all global issues, and that curbing its rise is legitimate despite hundreds of millions gaining a better life. This betrays an imperial view that the West decides which nations participate in the global economy. The media war is powered by technology in a new propaganda era, with Western outlets assuming conflict is inevitable rather than promoting multilateralism.
Dismantling the dominance of Western media will be difficult but investing in alternative sources worldwide could provide more balanced views for local audiences.
Archive.today link to thediplomat.com
This comment was generated by a bot. Send comments and complaints via private message.
*Chandran Nair is the founder and CEO of the Global Institute for Tomorrow. He is the author of “Dismantling Global White Privilege: Equity for a Post-Western World” (Penguin Random House, 2022). *
