• mechoman444@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    You guys are asking the wrong questions.

    How is Linux going to do this? There’s no server for the os to send the information to report the age of its users, no way of forcing its user base to comply and no single person or entity to fine, arrest or otherwise force into compliance.

    They made a law they cannot enforce.

    • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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      20 hours ago

      How is Linux going to do this? There’s no server for the os to send the information to report the age of its users

      The law doesn’t require sending the data anywhere, so that’s not a problem.

      no way of forcing its user base to comply and no single person or entity to fine, arrest or otherwise force into compliance.

      The law doesn’t require anything of users, it requires something of OS providers. OS providers have addresses and entities to fine.

      • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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        14 hours ago

        The law doesn’t require anything of users, it requires something of OS providers.

        For a FOSS OS, any user with root access would be considered an “OS Provider” under the definitions provided in this law. With FOSS, there is no real distinction between “user” and “developer”.

        • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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          13 hours ago

          You are right, it just says whoever “controls the OS”, which is very vague. Even without going to open source, a user still controls the OS even on Windows or macOS. To a lesser degree of course, but in the same way a driver controls a car even if they can’t or won’t try to modify it.

          • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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            13 hours ago

            The windows user uses the OS. The windows user does not control the OS. They only have access to the functions that Microsoft has provided. The Attorney General of California won’t be able to argue that the sysadmin is the OS Provider of a Windows installation. The OS Provider of Windows is Microsoft.

            The Attorney General of California would easily be able to argue that the OS Provider of a particular Linux instance is the sysadmin of that instance.

            • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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              10 hours ago

              They only have access to the functions that Microsoft has provided.

              And a user of Ubuntu only has access to the functions that Canonical has provided.

              Unless they have root access and modify the OS. Or they have administrator access on Windows and modify the OS. Which is the case for both by default. I don’t really see the distinction. There is clearly a provider company behind both, and in both cases the user could add this age check functionality by themselves by installing an utility that provides it.

              • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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                3 hours ago

                And a user of Ubuntu only has access to the functions that Canonical has provided.

                That is not at all accurate.

                Administrator access to Windows is not at all comparable to root access on Linux. Windows “root” access is held solely by Microsoft, and granted only to Microsoft employees and contractors. They are the only ones with the capability of changing Microsoft’s binary blobs.

                Canonical doesn’t restrict root access. Everyone who installs Ubuntu has root access by default.

                Suppose Canonical adds this capability to Ubuntu. Suppose I take an Ubuntu install, and remove this capability. Who is the provider of the resulting OS, Canonical, or me? Obviously, I am responsible for the changes; I am obviously the OS Provider in this scenario. What I am saying is that I was the OS provider before I made the changes. For FOSS software, the end user fits the OS Provider definition that California creates with this law.

                • dev_null@lemmy.ml
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                  3 hours ago

                  What does the comparability of root/admin access change in this situation?

                  Suppose Microsoft adds this capability to Windows, and you edit the registry to disable it. How is that any different?

                  I can see the argument for something like iOS. But on Windows you would be able to add or remove such functionality. What is the difference that makes the user the OS Provider on Ubuntu but not on Windows, in your eyes?

                  Let’s say you own a computer store in California, you sell Windows laptops, and you setup your preinstalled Windows image with the registry edit made, because customers don’t like the silly age prompt. How are you not the OS Provider?

                  • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today
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                    2 hours ago

                    Suppose Microsoft adds this capability to Windows, and you edit the registry to disable it. How is that any different?

                    By allowing the end user to change it instead of locking it down, they are not making a good faith effort to comply, and they lose their liability protection. To maintain their immunity, at the very least they will need to prohibit Californians from disabling the feature.

                    Canonical is prohibited from adding comparable terms.

                    I can see the argument for something like iOS.

                    How is iOS any different from Windows here?

                    Let’s say you own a computer store in California, you sell Windows laptops, and you setup your preinstalled Windows image with the registry edit made, because customers don’t like the silly age prompt. How are you not the OS Provider?

                    Again, to maintain their immunity under this law, they would have to prohibit me from doing this in their licensing agreement. My violation is what protects Microsoft. I would, indeed, be the OS provider in that scenario.

                    But in the scenario you describe, I’m not the end user.

                    Neither Canonical nor I can include the same restrictive terms in our OS offerings. We can simply inform our users that the OS is not California compliant. Our users become their own OS Providers as soon as they decide to use them in California.

    • hector@lemmy.today
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      22 hours ago

      Which is why we all should aspire to join linux, and reject newsome and other greasy california politicians cynically playing us for the billionaires.

    • Spesknight@lemmy.world
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      20 hours ago

      What if banning Linux is part of the Agenda? And what will they do for the servers? I am declaring my pc a server as of right now…

      • yabbadabaddon@lemmy.zip
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        19 hours ago

        How do you want to do this? Linux is a kernel the world relies on. It powers your car, your fridge, your satellite, your phone, the entire Internet, the army, etc. Nothing comes close to Linux in market share. The distros are built upon the kernel. System76 may have to comply, but the other maintainers don’t give a flying fuck. They could even write a small line somewhere on their repo that says “this distro is not allowed in California” and call it a day.

    • Liketearsinrain@lemmy.ml
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      23 hours ago

      From what I understood, it’s a requirement for a local API (for apps to use) and could be implemented during user creation.

      It will be a slippery slope and IANAL, just my interpretation.