Trump’s government siding with OpenAI is peak MAGA economics: copyright is sacred until Silicon Valley needs millions of other people’s books, articles and art for free. Then suddenly property rights become an annoying obstacle to »winning the AI race.« Apparently America First now means AI companies first, creators somewhere near last.
‘Maga economics’ is just ordinary US Capitalist/Oligarch economics with panicking Oligarchs ! Did you really think that ‘your’ side of the super right-wing US uni-party would not shit on ANY principles as they see fit ?? Come on man It’s a big club… and you ain’t in it !
Both sides are managed. It’s called ‘controlled opposition’. None of your ‘lefty’ values are officially cared about or listened too and you never had ‘Democracy’ in the US, so the Epsteins were always in control !! All of your opinions are nothing but thin air to your Oligarchy, but… somehow ‘Maga’ are bad, and you are good - without ANY of you having ANY democratic power at all !! Without ANY of you having good information, without ANY of you doing dilligent critical evaluations of your system. How incredibly captured are you people ? Do anyone of you even understand how US is run, or what actually happens in the world ?!?
ANY agreement with ANY of your oligarch politicians/Epstein shtters are direct support for their insane behavior at home, and in their insane endless wars against the rest of the world, and guess what - both sides of the uniparty have had the same foreign policy - for 75 years !!! What you see now is nothing but Oligarch panic, and have nothing to do with any opinions of the Merican people - you are NOT in control, and you are NOT in the club !!
Listen to George Carlin for f’s sake ! You are ALL - Maga’s and Dems alike - ‘controlled opposition’, 2 groups of manipulated, mentally raped, mind-colonised right-wingers that seem to believe whatever you are told by the most insane pschopathic elite, by the most insane media outlets that the Oligarchs actually OWN, and hence you live your entire life in the most ridiculous mis-information-sphere in the known world…
You are ALL being played by the Epsteins pschos from the day you were born until now ! Wake up, Stop fighting each other on their command, Stop listening to their media, Stop hating who you are told to hate, Stop agreeing with their violent aggressions around the world - just S T O P ! !
You’re not wrong but you’re wasting your breath. Every generation has a small group that figures this out and no matter how much they change their own lives, no matter how they try to get the word out, or get involved in activism, or literally anything at all, the masses will not budge. The people are incapable of saving themselves or making substantial changes in their lives without external pressures on them. People you know and like and share your opinion will nod and agree and pontificate from the comfort of their armchairs, but as long as they have even a sliver of comfort and convenience and entertainment they will not change anything about their lives at all. But they sure will get online and bitch all day. The best you can do is either move out of the country or gather like minded friends and family and live on a commune.
And then cries when other countries do it to them
Alrighty then, enjoy the end of creative people creating things, let’s all find out together how this ends 😐
But you don’t get to enjoy copyrighted materiel yourself
“Rent it again if you love it so much.”
which technically makes piracy legal because that’s the gov endorsing piracy
should update torrent client to say “LLM training agent” instead, legally safe /s
I consider myself somewhat of a LLM.
there’s a Morrissey song about that
yup
Nah we might need to accept reality. You need to be rich enough to make some bullshit company that uses A.I. then you can pirate legally using that A.I. as an excuse.
so Norm was right. …
You need a $$$/hr lawyer to pull <$100 LLC paperwork out of their briefcase. “My client was just training his company’s innovative new LLM.” We live in an odd world.
Legal for them, not for us
Aaron Schwartz’s prosecution was always bullshit. RIP.
Precedent that copyright is not legally enforceable
Yeah, I wouldn’t be as upset if the playing field was level. Alright, you can slurp up and remix the world’s works, but so can anyone, for any reason, for free. Personally, I think use restrictions should only target commercial use, but I’m sure that’s a much more divisive topic. We have a law that is not being applied to those most likely to abuse it at scale.
Precendent was already there. Copyright has never been enforceable when it’s transformative. Collage is legal, so was training neural nets before the copyright industry saw money in it.
So it’s eminent domain on other people’s copyrighted content?
Gotta keep funneling money to those billionaires.
So literally the Chinese approach to copyright and IP law.
I mean, based -
But I don’t want the elimination of IP rights without a guaranteed income for artists.
It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism. Press the Socialism button!
It’s not possible to eliminate IP rights under capitalism.
It is. Independent artists already gain basically nothing from IP law, because they can’t afford to defend their claims in court. The fact that their art (usually, before AI) isn’t stolen is a testament to the fact that there’s just not much money in doing so, while the fact that their art got stolen once AI hit the scene shows that the law doesn’t actually stop the rich from doing this stuff. Press the socialism button anyway, but in any case it’s mostly corporations who benefit from IP law.
Would you say starving artists were fine with you before AI?
Peak capitalism, steal everything from the masses, remix and regurgitate it so no one is the wiser, then sell it back to them via a subscription model.
Makes me sick.
To my understanding, and excuse me if I‘m wrong because I‘m not a lawyer but that‘s not what the fucking law says? You either uphold copyright law or abandon it. There is no middle way and if courts disagree with you, your stance doesn‘t really matter here.
You misunderstand. YOU can’t use the data. Heck, you can’t easily find it anymore either. They’re scanning all the books and ripping them up as we speak too.
Big companies CAN because they own YOU. Clear?
Uh what do you mean you can’t easily find it anymore? Search engines still exist (perhaps avoid Google unless you have to use it) and neither bookstores, nor the library, are out of books.
The reason they can do this with books is that there are so, so many books that nobody else wants to buy. Like so many that you can just buy books by the foot as a decoration. What books will you get? Nobody knows because nobody gave enough of a fuck to write it down. They’re only valuable for LLM training because they’re new data and they’re only “rare” (as said in some articles) because there wasn’t enough demand to print more.
And destroying the books means there’s no extra copy of them, so for the purpose of copyright law, all is good unless an LLM straight up recites a passage from a book.
Honestly that whole thing might end up being net neutral or even positive, as the paper can be recycled, instead of sitting around as books nobody will read.
We are all training our own AI models now.
They got you hoodwinked there.
They don’t like to talk about it, but the US founding fathers were raging leftists (although that terminology didn’t exist yet). The framers of the constitution had no intention to create a class of intellectual landlords extracting rent from the people. That is why copyright is strictly limited in the constitution.
[the United States Congress shall have power] To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Clause
The language is archaic. Useful Arts means inventions and Science means knowledge. The economic consequences of copyright are very much at issue.
That AI training is (generally) Fair Use is a no-brainer. It’s actually much harder to justify copyrights for entertainment products.
Where’s all the people shouting how awesome capitalism is, private ownership, the communists will come steal everything from you.
Here come capitalists to steal everything you own so they can make more money. Copyright, shmopyright. They’ve also got eminent domain on their side to build walls and data centers
Firmly an example of capitalism cannibalism themselves.
It may not abolish copyright but it is causing cracks.
Copyright was always a scam, non personal information should be free. Multiple people can have the same good idea, walling of access to a good idea behind capital blocks human progress.
Before anyone says something, yes artists deserve to eat… just like everyone else. Being economically productive should not be a condition for that. Make your art for fun and enjoy the honor of being copied with a sidedish of UBI.
If we didnt have copyright laws then the wealthy would just copy everyone’s good ideas and ensure the people who created those ideas get little to nothing, like Amazon making their own versions of every popular item and selling it for less than the original product.
You must be joking, the vast majority of patents are owned by large corporations.
Can you give me one example of where copyright is protecting an average wealth citizen?
Enforcing copyright requires you to have the economic resources to create lawsuits when it gets infringed. Sometimes enforcing your rights can costs into millions of dollars. Infringers often have the resources to delay the legal case till you the rightsholder have no more money left to continue.
Places like china don’t care about it either and they will just copy and sell on the western market anyway.
Some sources for the later
Just because the copyright system has been perverted and bastardized by regulatory capture doesn’t mean the concept of copyright is bad. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I feel that is moving the goal post a bit but i am a history nerd so i will happily read about any historical examples of what you speak. (Not sarcasm i really really love learning and being proven wrong)
Here is what Wikipedia had to say about the orgins of copyright law (tldr its censorship by church and state)
Tap for spoiler
The origin of copyright law in most European countries lies in efforts by the church and governments to regulate and control the output of printers.[12] Before the invention of the printing press, a writing, once created, could only be physically multiplied by the highly laborious and error-prone process of manual copying by scribes. An elaborate system of censorship and control over scribes did not exist, as scribes were scattered and worked on single manuscripts.[13] Printing allowed for multiple exact copies of a work, leading to a more rapid and widespread circulation of ideas and information (see print culture).[12] In 1559 the Index Expurgatorius, or List of Prohibited Books, was issued for the first time.[13]
There is an earlier story about a dispute of a copied work which ended in a battle its said to have caused 3000 casualties, an unreliable number but enough to assume this wasn’t exactly David vs Goliat either.
15 years of non transferable copyright encourages creativity.
Some things (field of medicine/environmentalism) can’t wait 15 years for an effective democratised solution.
The idea that someone would be rewarded for limiting access to such solution sickens me.
Naturally they would deserve global praise possible in the form of a reward for creating the idea that changed the world for the better, but capitalism is designed to not do so.
To often in industry the actual creative inventor gets nothing, while the company they work under gets the patent to exploits the demand.
If employees owned the means of production, this would be a moot point… Just pointing that out for people.
It would be way less of a problem for sure, but not moot. An individual inventor can still stop other people from using an identical solution simply for being first to file the paperwork.
Sure, evidence?
Most big authors and artists dedicate their lives to their craft because, and this is true, once they finish writing a book or recording a song, they’ll get paid for people who buy or stream them. Without copyright, there’s zero reason to pay them.
Edit: Who down votes an academic reference?
Seems highly arbitrary. I always think about how early airplane tech was almost all developed in Europe because no one in America could work on anything adjacent after the Wright Bros patented their flyer. Intellectual property is intellectual theft.
It comes from this paper. Using existing data on recordings and books we obtain a point estimate of around 15 years for optimal copyright term
It makes sense that some copyright protection is beneficial to society as it encourages new works.
But I think the important part is to ensure copyright is non transferable. Then large corporations cannot build (and charge for) large libraries.
This just in… I think I’m going to start training my own LLM on various movies, TV shows, and music. US government said it was ok.
Remember that it’s always morally acceptable to break in and destroy AI data centers. The only ones harmed are not people.
There’s not just a desperation for Skynet by US government, like protecting oil from EVs/renewables, this is also about creating new oligarchs to fund electoral results that oppress Americans/humanity.
Between that bullshit argument and “to protect the children” they are getting away with incredible, fuck, with everything.
