whelp, there it is
You must log in or register to comment.
FYI, a lemmy iOS app, Mlem, is in active development, and we hope to be at 1.0 by July 1. It’s heavily inspired by Apollo, but, obviously, with changes for lemmy.
Stay tuned and subscribe to c/mlemapp for updates!
Edit: I want to note that, since one of the biggest sticking points with 3rd-party apps has been both accessibility for the blind and deaf and mod tools, they’re both on our minds as we design the interface. Getting both right will, of course, take time, but we want everyone to know that we fully intend to make our app usable for everyone.
Edit: I want to note that, since one of the biggest sticking points with 3rd-party apps has been both accessibility for the blind and deaf and mod tools, they’re both on our minds as we design the interface. Getting both right will, of course, take time, but we want everyone to know that we fully intend to make our app usable for everyone.
This is excellent to hear. If you’re still on reddit, you should post this to r/blind, as they’ve been in limbo about whether their tools will be granted an “exception” to use the reddit API and they may be looking into alternatives for their community.
I’ll consider it, but feel free to x-post this there or make your own post. We’re not exactly in PR mode right now since these tools and features are still in their conceptual stages and we’re still trying to figure out how best to implement them-- especially the accessibility features. We’re looking to bring on an accessibility specialist to the team to consult with us, so if anyone would like to help on that front Please let us know by joining our Mlem app chat on Matix.
We’ll also be making a wider recruitment post to expand our dev team in the next few days, so keep an eye out for that, too! We’re currently a tiny team of passionate volunteers, and there’s a LOT to do!
edit: Link to GitHub project iif anyone wants to get a feel for where we are now.
Been using it for a few days, and it’s very nice. Not feature complete, obviously, but what’s there is great.
Glad you like it-- there will probably be many changes as soon as it gets updated (we’re still figuring out what works and what doesn’t). But, and everyone should be aware of this: v1.0’s goal is “be functional and stable”. Features will get added as we go (hopefully quickly). Apps like Apollo, RIF, etc, are mature, having been developed over years of work and user feedback. And while we can stand on the shoulders of giants like Christian Selig with regard to our direction and goals, we’re just getting started.
That said, we’re here to serve the community as we are also part of it, so we are doing all we can to build a great app!
there is also Jerboa on Android for folks who are on Boost, which is also going to inevitably disappear lol
Yeah I’m a Boost user and I’m using Jerboa. It’s not such a shock going from Reddit to here thanks to Jerboa.
While I’m coping that Christian “ports” Apollo over to work with Lemmy, I love what you guys are doing with Mlem. I’m in the beta via TestFlight and what’s there works quite well (even though you can clearly tell it’s early days).
I’m very new to iOS development, but if I find the time and motivation I might put in the hours to contribute a feature or two.
Good to hear. I’m kinda hoping the Apollo source will become public once it closes. Anything that gets us close to that kind of experience would be great.
I’m the UX designer on the app, so the idea is to get close in terms of usability and style while making the app “our own”. So, the app will, ideally, feel a lot like Apollo, but without outright copying it.
We want to take the best of Apollo (minus some things we don’t like about it), and make something that’s inclusive of how lemmy works and operates.
minus some things we don’t like about it
What don’t you like about Apollo? If you don’t mind me asking.
well, as a UX designer, there are some decisions he made, years ago, that were based on an older philosophy of iOS interaction design that have since been updated. An overreliance on list display modalities, for example, pull-up menus, and other minor things in the interface which make complex workflows tedious and which can be optimized using more contemporary workflow ideologies. Stuff that, as a solo developer, he didn’t have time to address but which, as a new team starting out, we can redesign from the ground up.
We’re starting fresh, so we don’t have to worry about changing some monolith this that already exists. We have a lot more freedom than Christian does/did. We want to set a foundation based on the best of what we’ve learned from the greats but with a path for growth for the future for ourselves and our users.
I have the Mlem app but I’m have problems logging in, during login it says I I’m logged into beehaw.org but then says can’t connect to beehaw.org. Am I doing something wrong?
it may have to do with the popular lemmy instances being slammed right now. Until very recently, they weren’t handling a lot of heavy traffic-- after Christian Selig’s initial announcement about the Reddit API changes, there was a massive spike in traffic from Reddexiters, and, now, again within the last hour since his latest post. Instance admins are expanding their capacity, but can only do so much, being independent volunteers running servers on their own.
Give it time. the servers are a bit bogged down right now.
I just tried it again and it’s now working. Can’t wait to test it out!
Good luck on that, and thank you for your work (saying this as an Android user, but every platform deserves a nice Lemmy client!)
Do you need beta testers?
the beta is currently open in testflight, I believe. we’ll be forming user testing groups in the near-future.
I’ll enable testflight on my new phone and try it out. Hopefully I can provide some useful feedback.
i’m already using mlem, and it’s quite nice! yes, it needs some polishing still, however it’s a great alternative to what i’ve been using for 3 years (Apollo).
And now I’m here after 17 years on Reddit. 🤷♂️
You and me both… I have seen that place through its ups and downs. From the narwhal bacon’s at midnight to Jolly Rancher, Zoop and the swamps of drogba.
I finally left my account a few days ago and haven’t been back since. The place is a shell of what it used to be and it’s been really very refreshing have a scout about somewhere else.
Fuck greed… It eventually ruins everything!
the swamps of drogba
Ha ha… Nice ! Image didn’t load without a click, it was risky but a lot better than what I braved myself for :)
15 for me. No ragrats.
Welcome and enjoy your stay!
I am exited about this new community & the potentials that can be created. Let’s conceptualize, design & built the server & application side - organically as our needs evolve over time. !
How do you get to the point where you’re accusing Christian of blackmailing you in this situation? You’re the 500lb gorilla who’s driving all these app developers out of business. Even if you really feel like these app developers have been free riding on your largesse, how do you have so little perspective to be this petty and spiteful?
I’m still not clear what the alleged threat was, that the app would… make API calls? earning reddit money? That Christian would say unfriendly things about the company that screwed him? What threat is an app developer to a corporation? It’s just patently absurd.
I listened to the recording, and read the transcript, and I can… I can see it. Not overtly, not intentionally - but the dev did not communicate clearly at all.
Twice the Reddit representative asking him to repeat himself, and still he failed to actually specify his intentions. The wording in the transcript never actually expanded what the dev was saying (‘buy out Apollo’). The evasive language made it sound like a shakedown, ‘pay me $10mil to make this all go away’.
I linked the dev’s own transcript above, but the actual quotes from the dev:
I could make it really easy on you, if you think Apollo is costing you $20 million per year, cut me a check for $10 million and we can both skip off into the sunset. Six months of use. We’re good. [Low voice:] That’s mostly a joke.
Okay, if Apollo’s opportunity cost currently is $20 million dollars. At the 7 billion requests and API volume. If that’s your yearly opportunity cost for Apollo, cut that in half, say for 6 months. Bob’s your uncle.
I was just saying if the opportunity cost of Apollo is currently $20 million a year. And that’s a yearly, apparently ongoing cost to you folks. If you want to rip that band-aid off once. And have Apollo quiet down, you know, six months. Beautiful deal. Again this is mostly a joke, I’m just saying if the opportunity cost is that high, and if that is something that could make it easier on you guys, that could happen too. As is, it’s quite difficult.
Now, we know that what the dev is doing is essentially offering to outright sell Apollo to end the demand it represents to Reddit. He doesn’t expect them to take it, but a lot of users asked if it were possible, and he’s suggesting it anyway.
But the wording of all of this never specifies ‘buying Apollo’. It sounds like he wants Reddit to like… pay him his ‘protection fee’. I’m sure he means ‘go quiet’ as in like, ‘go quietly into that good night’ (shut down) or ‘stop being so demanding’ (be retooled), in fact he later clarifies he means the latter and the Reddit representative apologises profusely.
But man, that was worded so poorly, and he was given two opportunities to clarify, and he just… didn’t. Only when the Reddit stand-in asked if he was suggesting Reddit buy his silence and compliance did he clarify that wasn’t at all what he was saying.
It was completely unintentional, no doubt. But it was miscommunication of the highest order, and it damaged the lines of communication so irrevocably it probably incentivised Reddit to cease negotiations completely.
I listened to the recording and it was … messy. Christian wasn’t clear at all and it seems his intention of making what he described as a lighthearted jest fell like a lead balloon at the Reddit guys feet. To my mind it would have been a very important conversation and therefore if I was Christian I would have kept it business-like and clear. It still doesn’t excuse Reddit for weaponizing the conversation and screaming blackmail which makes the CEO come across as a man-baby throwing a fit.
The problem is this, from the transcript:
Me: I said “If you want Apollo to go quiet”. Like in terms of- I would say it’s quite loud in terms of its API usage.
Reddit: Oh, go quiet as in that. Okay, got it. Got it. Sorry.
Me: Like it’s a very-
Reddit: Yeah, that’s a complete misinterpretation on my end.
Me: Yeah. No, no, it’s all good.
Reddit: I apologize. I apologize immediately.
The “threat” part was resolved right there. Steve just wanted to retcon the conversation as a way to dog Christian. He didn’t anticipate Christian was gonna roll in with receipts.
Yeah, I found that interesting. I generally don’t attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence, and I imagine either (or both) of these is likely:
- The ‘evasive’ language made everything feel implied, that when pressed to outright admit his intentions he falls back. He was evasive, evasive, evasive, pressed, fell back. Still he did not clarify he was selling Apollo, only that ‘go quiet’ meant ‘pay me off and Apollo stops making calls’. It’s possible Spez did not believe him and was trying to deescalate.
- Internally discussing the outcome of the call with other members on staff, they may have felt (1) was true, or Spez accepted the explanation but other staff didn’t; they discussed the implications of each possible intention; and they collectively decided they should probably treat it as a threat since it remained ambiguous. It’s possible Spez did want to believe him but other staff didn’t.
The conclusion doesn’t have to be that Spez believed him, then personally as an individual decided “oh, actually, fuck it” and decided to lie about it anyway. In fact I’d say that of the three possibilities, that’s the least likely.
I agree. When I read and listened to the conversation, it’s mostly clear that it isn’t what he meant but it could definitely be construed in a different way. I think it was a pretty poor choice of words to demonstrate how much of the userbase uses third party apps and how much sway they actually have.
That said, it is what it is. Reddit’s PR team is definitely going to try to spin this as negatively as possible even if the Apollo dev is only trying to make a point. At least there were recordings so we can come to our own conclusions.
I imagine his intend was to imply - or at least put pressure on - the idea of Apollo actually costing them $20mil was an inflated number. The idea that it was a real and on-going cost, and had been for a decade, and he’s basically daring them to buy Apollo. Because if that number was real, they should leap at the chance:
If you want to rip that band-aid off once. […] Beautiful deal.
I believe that’s why it was ‘mostly a joke’ - he never expected them to take it, he doesn’t believe it actually costs them that much. It’s not what he’s taking from them - it’s what they feel entitled to take from the users, and they blame him for being in the way.
Personally I agree it doesn’t cost that much - I believe they believe it does, but only because they look at Apollo’s userbase and activity, and decided “oh boy, if we could sell ads to those users and sell their data at those rates, this is how much we would make” and decided that means Apollo is somehow costing them that. I don’t think ‘opportunity cost’ is an appropriate concept to price on, because it relies on obviously false assumptions.
Apollo is definitely costing them server bandwidth, as are the other apps. And it seems all the devs were ready and willing to cover the costs, even negotiate how their users could still be a revenue stream. But Reddit believes they were owed the same profit of Apollo’s users that they would make off of their own, and I think that’s nonsense.
After all, if somebody pirates Photoshop, it’s stupidly naïve to think that every single one of those users would be willing to pay Adobe $80 a month (in some countries that’s more than they make in 3+ months). And if somebody goes to a friend’s house and watches a Blu-Ray with them, it’s absurd to expect they mail a check for $20 to their local theatre.
The expectation that somebody using something convenient/free would use it just as much if it was demanding/unaffordable is… like, they’re not stupid, right? They can’t possibly be that stupid to think that was even attainable profit for them. I just don’t understand why they think that ‘opportunity cost’ is real.
I think a back of the envelope cost for what each user makes reddit per month was something around $0.22 per month. Which is nowhere near the $2.5 per month their API pricing was suggesting.
This wasn’t a question of opportunity cost, and setting prices in good faith. They simply wanted to kill any competition and somehow thought they could get away with this. Hopefully we can show them they can’t with the blackout and migrating to other online communities.
Yeah, I felt the same when I read his post on Reddit. He worded things incredibly badly, and even I, when reading his post, got the impression that he wanted 10 million dollars to “make their problem go away”. It almost feels like he was testing the water by being vague about it, before backpedaling when he realized they weren’t into that.
[Edit] I get that he was probably trying to prove the point that their price was ridiculous and Apollo couldn’t be costing them that much, but man. Terrible way to communicate that. You’re not trying to sell your old TV to some guy in a bar here!
This is a big reason why I’m here as of today. I just can’t in good conscience support what Reddit is doing. I’ve been an Apollo user since it launched out of beta. I jumped at the chance to have paid Christian twice for both the original premium upgrade. And then the Ultra one later down the road. I just adore the app. When I switched to Android I still found myself missing it terribly. Since switching back to iOS. I’ve averaged 15-20 hours per week just using Apollo.
End of an era :(
Apollo is the epitome of Apple’s HIG. Quite literally the best designed app from a UX standpoint on the App Store.
I remember just falling in love with the design that day. I gave Christian money as soon as I could. I had been an Alien Blue user beforehand. And I just remember being so blown away by the speed of everything too.
I was planning on staying on Reddit until I lost the ability to use Boost, but it already feels too far gone, and I’m struggling to find anything engaging on there. End of an era indeed :(
Boost was the Android Reddit client I used the most. I thought it was great. I also liked Sync a bunch too. I paid for both and would rotate between them. But something about Apollo just stuck with me.
I thankfully spend a good 90% of my Redditing on Desktop (old.reddit.com 4lyfe), but losing Boost on my phone hurts. Just spent the last hour hitting up all my most frequent subs and looking for all their discords or any alternate *anythings *they’ve set up regardless lol
It is sad to see an amazing app become rendered useless due to some companies greed. They were not even being reasonable with pricing nor did they really give the dev time to figure out what to do.
I really hope that everyone leaves reddit and comes to the fediverse. Mastodon had a huge boost and it completely replaced twitter for me. I am sure Lemmy can do the same.
I’m hoping Christian ports Apollo to Lemmy. I’m not sure what the feasibility of doing so is but I’d actually pay a monthly subscription for the ability to continue using it
I think he wants the apps to die with its legacy. Maybe he would make another app that does it. I hope he does and I would pay a modest subscription for it.
I hope that on June 30th, when it shuts down, the app doesn’t just give an error message but instead displays some kind of farewell message.
Yeah a farewell would be good. In my dream scenario, he would open source it and the community could port it. That might be unlikely though
honestly, me as well
Signed up to Lemmy today, but held off to see if the Reddit situation was going to get any better. Seems like it won’t, so one big hearty fuck you to them.
I’ll try and contribute as much as I can to this community.Yup, Christian’s latest post about Apollo sealed the deal for me leaving. It’s a bummer, but hopefully it leads to something new and exciting starting here! I’m guessing there’s been a pretty big influx of Reddit refugees.
Hoping Lemmy is able to re-create the feeling and community of early reddit. The reddit we’re all refugees from felt vastly different ten years ago. All of the venture capital funding has ruined something that used to be a replacement for fragmented forum communities. Maybe a mass exodus to federated Lemmy instances can help re-create that early feeling.
I feel like it has it very much already. I was lurking during the y-combinator days and it’s almost uncanny how the community here matches what Reddit had.
What’s also interesting to observe is that the vast majority of the comments here have been respectful, considerate, helpful, and constructive. Maybe I got too used to the massive user base of children that Reddit had, and no hate for the younger crowd, but I did miss the maturity that early days Reddit had and subsequently lost.
We all got here before the trolls and bots. It’s so refreshing to have actual conversations without the hate.
Don’t worry, the bots, trolls, and dingbats will follow once they realize the party is here. However, they first have to grok the fediverse/Foss thing.
Looking forward to finding that new feeling again. The only way to have a good experience on reddit these days has been to quickly navigate away from the massive subs and into niche communities, but we’re already starting at that point so it feels nice.
The tragedy of the commons I suppose. I hope with Lemmy and Beehaw we have the opportunity to do things right this time.
I read a comment that said the admins are holding an AMA soon to “address the concerns of the community”. Can’t wait to see that turn into a mega-shitshow.
“Popcorn tastes good”
I’m in the same boat as you. I hope Lemmy can replace reddit for me completely, either way it will be a good thing for my reddit addiction I think.
Wow, the fact Reddit is claiming he’s blackmailing them for 10 million dollars is insane.
The fact the dev recorded it and posted it online for people to listen to themselves is great. God I love living in Ontario Canada where it’s a single party consent to record others on the phone.
I live in South Korea where it’s also legal to record only with single party consent. It’s not that long ago that I found out that it’s not a universal thing. It should be.
beehaw admins prepare for another wave of users probably lol
Might be worth pointing people towards https://sh.itjust.works/ as they don’t have too much users yet and the admin claims to have a lot of compute at their disposal.
Definitely. Moreover, the domain name is just awesome
I’ve been recommending that people come here!
Signed up for Lemmy a couple days ago and I now’s the perfect time for my first comment. I’d like to give Reddit a hearty “fuck you” for running an awesome dev out of business with your lying and defamation.
Multiple devs, but yeah…same here, I’m done with reddit.
This is really sad. I rarely posted on Reddit, and I mostly use it as an information source, but Apollo is how I mostly interacted with the platform, and when I did post, it was always through Apollo.
One silver lining is I found Beehaw as a result, and I like interacting and posting here, so I guess… thanks for being shit Reddit!
Well I’m done.
Warned the mod teams in the various subs I mod that I won’t be back after the 30th. It’s sad because I feel I am letting them down, but the knowledge I’ve gained from various communities and posts there isn’t worth the price now.
Thanks for standing up for what you believe in. I’ve been a part of reddit myself for more than 15 years on different accounts and I just can’t continue to go down the rabbit hole into VC-funded junk. The site seriously started to degrade after the huge venture capitalist investment (from Chinese firms no less) in 2019 and it’s just gotten worse in the five years since then.
Will you close your accounts?
I’m quite torn. The various gaming subs I mod have great teams, and are generally great communities. I legit feel like I am doing them a disservice by stepping down and closing accounts at the end of the month.
But doing the work for a company who has no regard for the reason it is a success stings more than the feeling I’ll be abandoning some teams of passionate individuals.
I love the ‘old’ feeling of the internet on here. What I miss from forums in the '90’s. I feel like this is the best decision.
But actions speak louder than words. They don’t deserve users who they abuse.
I’m waiting to see what the response is from spez about the API changes tomorrow. I expect a shit show that will piss me off enough to begin deleting content from the site, yes.
I’m from the future and I’d like to congratulate you on your prediction! It wasn’t exactly a long shot, but… yeah. You got it exactly right.
I’ve deleted all of my alts. Main account goes June 29. You guys have made a house a home here at Beehaw.
Hahahahahhahahah, wouldn’t miss it for the world. But being admins, I imagine it won’t be fairly represented.
I’ll see you there, though!
Well, that gave me some useful context, thanks! I was mew to reddit, having resisted all social media since the dawn of twitter until almost 2 years ago with reddit.
I started a Mastodon account late last year in response to twitter’s API madness, though I don’t use it much. Refit was the one that got me in the end.
The initial breaking of this story is what drove me to explore some Reddit alternatives, but this is worse than I realized. It’s a bummer to see the enshittification principle on full display.
completely off topic but great pfp 👍🏾
Hah, thanks! Link to the Past is my GOAT Zelda game.
Sad news. I use Boost which I love. But won’t be using Reddit anymore once 3rd party apps are cut off.
Same. There was a post on the boost subreddit indicating this place, so I expect there will be an influx (eg, me).
original post by Apollo’s dev: https://tedd.it/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/_/
Also on https://apolloapp.io/
Don’t see it there what are you seeing
And with it goes me using Reddit, too. The official app is just sooooo bad and I barely check Reddit on my computer.
