Shell Is Immediately Closing All Of Its California Hydrogen Stations | The oil giant is one of the big players in hydrogen globally, but even it can’t make its operations work here.::The oil giant is one of the big players in hydrogen globally, but even it can’t make its operations work here. All seven of its California stations will close immediately.

  • jaemo@sh.itjust.works
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    1 year ago

    Yes! A clean platform that needs METRIC GIGATONS of carbon positive infrastructure to set up and maintain. That is why I call shenanigans on your zero harmful emissions claim.

    VS

    We already have wires, and batteries are more than good enough for a vast swath of the everyday commuting public.

    • daqqad@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Hydrogen can be generated any time. Like when nuclear or solar or wind energy is otherwise going to waste. We don’t have and likely won’t have batteries that could replace it for decades.

      Modern batteries are absolute shit and definitely not good enough. I think a good indication that batteries are anywhere near useful will be when you can fly on battery power across the Atlantic.

      • jaemo@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        Ok chief, you know best. Better sit out buying a vehicle until the dust settles then I guess.

        Meanwhile, I’ll be charging my ‘not good enough’ EV and trying not to let the fact that it doesn’t measure up to your standards weigh to heavily on me.

        • daqqad@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I already have an EV and I still think batteries in them are shit. These are not mutually exclusive.

          • jaemo@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            Hmm is it a leaf perchance? I’m very very happy with the 2020 Ioniq, it’s been solid, reliable, and true to its mileage estimate (I actually get 25km more range at 100% than the advertised specs)

            I’ve heard negative stories about Nissan’s battery tech - which is why I ask. Air cooling is not really helpful to lithium battery cells.

            It’s also possible you just got a bad module, and/or that you just have higher standards and expectations than I do, and these are also not mutually exclusive.

            • daqqad@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I have an Outlander and I’m also getting more range than advertised specs. My issue with batteries isn’t defects in tech, but the stage of its development. There are simply no batteries that can even come close to energy storage capacity of hydrogen and unlike with gas (12-30%), hydrogen’s conversion efficiency when using fuel cell is ~60%.

    • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      They make solar stations that will pull hydrogen right from the atmosphere. What carbon are you talking about…and you do realize the same power that would be used to make hydrogen in your example would also be charging batteries.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        Hydrogen isn’t in the atmosphere. The atmosphere is 20.9% oxygen, 70% nitrogen and some trace other gases, none of which are hydrogen.

        Hydrogen is produced either by splitting water (the H in H²O) or splitting hydrocarbons like Methane which produces CO² (the carbon part bonding with oxygen from the atmosphere, making that stuff we’re trying to cut back on).

        That second method is why the fossil fuels companies are so keen on it. Hydrogen can be a repacked form of natural gas.

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Yes totally forgot how there is no water in our atmosphere…forgot the globe just has water in a few places and humidity doesn’t exist…

          • wewbull@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            Oh yes, that 1% water vapour (on average) that you want 2/3rds of.

            Gimme a break. I don’t think your machine producing hydrogen “straight out of the atmosphere” is going to be fueling many cars.

      • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        That is a waste of solar. It’s more efficient to put in batteries then kinetic. If there is no more batteries to put it in, you transmit the power over wires.

        With hydrogen it’s wasteful to create from electricity, then wasteful to turn into kinetic. Its wasteful to store as it’s the smallest atom so escapes easily, it’s low density so needs compressing. Then, to move it, you have to move storage around instead of just transmit over wires.

        • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          A…waste of solar…internal ICE hydrogen motors is what these would be used for not fuel cell hydrogen.

          How are you wasting solar? Lol this makes no sense. These can be stood up anywhere, you cannot use these as super chargers for batteries…

          • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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            1 year ago

            Look at the efficiency of the energy conversions. It is literally wasting solar.

            • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              How is it wasted if it completely free energy? You cannot charge up electric cars quickly via solar…hell solar in general isn’t super efficient anyways lol

              • jabjoe@feddit.uk
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                1 year ago

                No energy is free because there is always installation and maintance cost. Lot’s of people change their cars off solar. Most of a car’s life is sat parked for hours. So slow is fine. My charger has a solar divert function I’m yet to get the solar for. Also, you change a house battery slow and then a car fast from it. Even here in the UK there are people doing it. Not solar all the time, but a lot in summer. House battery changed when your in the office, car overnight from that.