I mean there’s Reddit ofc, as well as Twitter in its entirety, Discord is implementing some dumb updates, there are issues with Tumblr as well as everything to do with Meta, and I’m sure there are plenty more (and I haven’t even touched other digital media, for example the Sims). Why is it all happening in the span of about a couple months?
It’s the money.
US Fed has raised interest rates, destroying money for the first time in decades in an effort to stop our inflation problem
The knock on effects is that banks literally have less money to lend to companies. Some companies are affected more than others by this environment. Tech was hit hard, extremely hard.
With hundreds of thousands of layoffs, tech industry is contracting. Silicon Valley bank literally evaporated in the span of 3 days. Twitter was losing money and had to sell out. StackOverflow is losing money and is currently selling out.
In this environment, Reddit is about to launch it’s long awaited IPO, the time when the public is allowed to directly buy Reddit stock and invest into the company. That’s what Initial Public Offering means. If Reddit does well, Reddit will pull in lots of money this year through this IPO.
The CEO of Reddit needs to prove Reddit is profitable, or if not profitable… Will eventually be profitable. Stockholders don’t care about Reddit drama for the most part, but most are smart enough to read financial sheets. Reddit needs to show growing revenue, growing profits and cutting costs to attract money.
As such, all of what Reddit’s CEO has done makes sense in the context of the IPO. He is betting that shareholders won’t notice the drop of high quality content creators from Reddit, since that’s not a financial number that’s reported. He can IPO, raising millions, maybe even billions for himself. The golden parachute outta here when everything gets screwed up in a year or two and collapses.
I think today’s investors are smarter though, and the bearish economy and high interest rates means more investors will pay attention to underlying issues.
U just enlightened me sir. Thank you.
I disagree in it really making sense (at least long term, but I recognize this is also “normal” for these corporate types) - it destroys long term viability for short term goals.
Happens all over the corporate world. They are encouraged to operate this way usually the guy there when the actions were taken getz out well before those long term consequences arrive. Hopefully Steve does bear the consequences himself, he dezerves it for being a horrible person in general.
Generally the drama isn’t a big deal. But in a specific case the only value of the site is in the community moderation and the depth of data on the site.
He needs investors to buy in but he also needs advertisers to buy in. Advertisers do not love paying for negative drama.
I don’t think that Reddit can compete against Youtube, Facebook, or TikTok with regards to ads.
They can make some money, yes. But Reddit will never have high-end ad revenue, not with its current model (or any changes they’re making).
This is just what living in late stage capitalism looks like.
Late stage capitalism You make a business and it goes well, you make some money everyone is happy.
But with time your profits will plateau or even decline. It’s natural, but businesses don’t understand that it is insane to expect a company to always turn crazy profits when the product does not evolve.
Companies like apple and Microsoft don’t worry as much because they are constantly evolving with new product.
Companies like Twitter, Facebook, reddit, Netflix have hit a wall where there really isn’t anywhere else to go so they start making shareholder centered decisions made by people who aren’t even in touch with the user base of their product.
Reddit, Twatter etc never made any money
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Capitalism created reddit.
Workers created Reddit, like everything else. Economic systems don’t create anything, only determine who profits from those creations.
Capitalism is good at creating things, but terrible at maintaining their quality over time, because at the end of the day profits don’t always go hand in hand with product quality
The sad truth. For example, Insta Pot has gone bankrupt recently because they built their stuff too well, and no one needed to buy more than one. Capitalism is the reason we have planned obsolescence and deliberately poor build quality of products.
Lets take the example of Reddit. Reddit could have kept its costs to the minimum and could have run the site with the ad revenue that came in. In fact they could have talked transparently about their opex and asked for a simple donation drive every now and then like Wikipedia. If need be, they could have removed silly GIF replies and other stuff and focused on text alone. However this would not let them become the next Facebook. That’s what they wanted to be. At some point in their story was a choice to be forums 2.0 or get into a race to become a cash grab. Sadly they went for the latter.
In fact they could have talked transparently about their opex and asked for a simple donation drive every now and then like Wikipedia.
This reminds me of when Reddit used to show their monthly server costs and ask that people get gold to help offset it?
n fact they could have talked transparently about their opex and asked for a simple donation drive every now and then like Wikipedia.
Let’s remember this about Kbin and the Fediverse.
I would donate to help counterbalance the wave of migration that brought me here.
Silicon Valley Bank collapsing is putting pressure on tech companies to actually turn a profit, so they’re turning to slimy tactics just to survive IPO
I don’t think it’s from a specific bank, but it is probably related. From being inside the tech world, the general sense is that the “macroeconomic environment” is different, because of the interest rates, so companies are getting pressure from all of their investors and banks to behave differently. At a lot of places, this has led to layoffs, trying to reduce costs, etc. It also manifests as trying to squeeze out more profit at all costs.
I like the “enshitification” term for the actual process that Reddit and others are going through.
I learned a lot from reading that article; thanks a lot! It’s something I had an intuitive sense about, but the cynical moves these platforms have been making are much less mysterious now
That’s an interesting thought, seems potentially plausible. Is this something you’re spitballing yourself, or is this an idea that’s been flying around?
I work in tech startups and it’s well known that equity is much harder to come by and comes with much more strings since the SVB collapse. The VCs are hurting and SVB was a wakeup call for them to be more active about getting value from their ventures.
was SVB a big investor in these companies or is there some other reason it’s collapse is having an effect?
I read that SVB was often the only bank that would do business with tech companies and their execs because of their weird balance sheets
Capitalism slowly shits up everything. Even the things it helps create.
I mean this in the most general way possible. Not just platforms. Even if reddit was profitable it would still continue. It’s just part of the cycle of seeking not just profits but ever rising profits.
It’s just more obvious lately on digital platforms because it has been kind of compressed into smaller amounts of time.
That which is free must find a way to cost.
That that makes money must find a way to make more.
And slowly but surely its takes on a fine shine. A glean seen from a distance. But when you get close you realize. “oh, its fucking shit all over it.”
I swear every problem in the modern world is like two degrees separated from capitalism.
Hard for it to be otherwise, considering it affects almost everything.
I’d rather focus on publicly traded companies as the main root of evil before dealing with capitalism itself. Private companies tend to not be so destructive - many are fine staying where they are, instead of growing infinitely like cancer, eating everything around them.
This! It is not like private companies per se are the problem, but rather megacorporations that are pressured to generate unimaginable and entirely unsustainable profits that required to increase from year to year. Private companies must not necessarily be more unsustainable than publicly-owned (by this I mean state-owned) corporations.
Yeah… I mean, we on one hand, we now grow plenty of food to feed almost 8 billion people, cured polio, greatly extended lifespan all over the globe… But on the other hand (waves hand at everything).
Eternal growth on a finite planet ain’t possible, but capitalism demands it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There is the “enshittification theory” — https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys
Article specifically mentions TikTok but is relevant for Reddit.
Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die.
this. oh god this sums it up so well. any platform that features a “feed” and the company offer to “personalise” it for you - that’s where enshittification will occur.
I think also we’ve become so dependent that they can just do whatever the fuck they want.
I’ve lived in a bunch of countries and FB messenger is the only way for me to keep in touch. FB can do whatever they want to me because I’m never going to persuade a bunch of people to all move to signal or something.
Reddit has communities that simply don’t exist on any other platform.
They have the critical mass.
It’s basically the lifecycle of any big corporation.
When the industry is new and there’s tons of new users to reach, everyone tries to be the most friendly corporation to build a name for themselves. Positive press and the halo effect helps bring in more people.
Once an industry matures and growth slows, the focus shifts to nickle-and-diming customers to squeeze more profit out of them.
I was going to say that I wish there was a decentralised way of sending messages… And then I remembered text messaging is a thing.
Incredible how quickly these things become embedded in everyday life
Unfortunately this doesn’t really work with international mates
Oh yeah good point
It’s Enshitification https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/enshittification
Enshittification is the answer. I mean, everything costs $, but my opinion? That’s worthless!
Interest rates went up and investors aren’t able to get cheap money. So investment is drying up. A few banks collapsed. Tech companies are trying to make a profitable business. Instead of a zombie company
This is it in a nutshell, without any “late stage capitalism” nonsense.
Reddit, like Twitter and other prominent tech companies, was supported largely by outside investment. The company didn’t make a profit, but investors continued to put money into it in hopes that it would eventually net them a return. Low interest rates make investment capital easy to come by and relatively low risk, but higher borrowing rates have dried up a lot of that funding. This forces the company to find other ways of sustaining itself.
I think the free money train in leaving the station and everyone is scrambling to be profitable. But that’s just an assumption based on twitch and Reddit right now.
So I guess you’re saying this is Powell’s fault, huh. 🤔
Reddit, Twitter, etc, have been running at a loss for ages, burning through vulture capitalist money to build up a solid userbase. Now they need to start turning a reliable profit, which means enshittification of the user experience to make more money per user.
And the worst bit it even happens to non free platforms.
Like Spotify pushing a TikTok style interface, and ramming my home screen full of things I don’t care about. Like, you’ve known me for a decade you should know I’m not into drake and podcasts by conservative men.
I don’t understand why Reddit doesn’t just buy up one of the 3rd-party apps that have the tech that people say is so badly needed. If the 3rd party apps actually make money then just buy one of them and make money with it.
Sounds like you’re trying to blackmail spez there.
These companies are overvalued. Currently we’re operating in supply side economics where the wealthy have all the money and companies do everything they can to attract those big investment dollars.
But the truth is social media companies (despite being household names) don’t really make the revenue that warrants their high valuation by investors. Investors are starting to figure this out, and now they’re desperately throwing shit at the wall to try to keep from losing those big supply side dollars.
Social media companies can break even and employ a lot of people while doing so. They could have a good user experience, and it would be all fine. But they wouldn’t have sky rocketing share prices doing that. The leadership wouldn’t get fat bonuses. So they implement all these crazy schemes so they can make projections about future revenue.
It doesn’t matter if these schemes actually will make money or not. They just need to show X number of users multiplied by Y additional revenue per user and that’s enough to attract investment. And it doesn’t matter if it destroys the company either, the people at the top will get their bonuses.
Related question: why does it feel like hollywood is intent on completely destroying all of our beloved franchises? It’s not like the place isn’t overflowing with incredibly talented artists, writers, actors, producers, etc. I just don’t understand why it’s so hard for them to make something that isn’t garbage.
This video explains it well: Basically, its greed and the fact that franchises are safer bets. And of course many people still watch them. https://youtu.be/p4GERuvdhYI
Personally I feel like the Mario movie was one of the best movies like that to come out. Sure it’s nothing too amazing, but for a video game adaptation it’s definitely up there. It does seem like everything has to be remade to be almost deliberately awful though.
I mean they’re not… There’s been some amazing films recently.
Not what, destroying our beloved franchises? You’re telling me star wars, star trek, and lord of the rings are in a good place right now? The ghostbusters remake, the insultingly bad fourth matrix movie, that attempt to revive the X files a few years back, the list goes on.
I’m not saying NOTHING good is coming out at all, but I AM saying just about everything coming out “related to franchises you used to love” is total crap with rare exception.
Because they know it will sell.
They don’t need to make a good Star Wars movie because they don’t need to onboard new fans. They make them only to squeeze out existing fans who will pay regardless of quality.
The new Matrix movie was actually a masterpiece. The Wachowski’s didn’t want to revive the franchise since they considered it complete - but the studio insisted that if they didn’t make it, the studio would get it done itself. So they accepted the offer, and made a movie so bad that it killed any attempts at reviving the franchise for good. The Matrix is now dead, and it will stay that way (hopefully).
I guess Star Wars is too strong to kill even with multiple shit movies.
Besides that, for how long can you squeeze the same universe? I’d rather have something new.
LOTR ROP is pretty good.
