Israel is occupying and oppressing what WOULD have otherwise been a sovereign nation.
Israel is retaliating against a political and military terrorist group
Bullshit. That’s the official government claim, but it’s clear to anyone with even an ounce of objectivity that it’s actually attacking the Palestinian people as a whole. By their OWN assessment they’re killing TWICE as many innocent civilians as Hamas and since they refuse to show any proof, the ratio is likely much worse.
the de facto leaders
More than half of the population wasn’t even BORN (let alone of voting age) the last time they were allowed the opportunity to vote for anyone else and even then they ran on false claims of moderation. They are an illegitimate government and civilians who never voted for them shouldn’t suffer for their atrocities.
disputed territory within Israel’s own borders.
Because of the aforementioned illegal occupation.
Hamas attacked Israel
Yes. Nobody sane is defending Hamas. That doesn’t mean that AT LEAST two civilians needs to die for every Hamas terrorist killed.
desire to wipe Israel off the map
So civilians should die for the desires of their governments? That would be bad news for the equally innocent Israeli civilians.
Israel didn’t just invade their territory randomly.
Might not be random, but sure as hell isn’t proportionate or otherwise in keeping with international humanitarian law.
It’s important to remember that doing nothing isn’t equal to peace
It’s at least as important to remember that the only alternative to “nothing” isn’t “a laundry list of horrific crimes against humanity”. Stow the false dichotomies, please.
Hamas attacked them
Which the fascists are using as an excuse to indiscriminately murder civilians including by denying them basic life necessities such as food, water, electricity, fuel, medical treatment and medicine.
TL;DR: I hope AIPAC or another Israeli government agency is paying you well for your efforts, otherwise it’s just sad for you to be spending so much time and effort regurgitating all the long debunked genocide apologia of an apartheid regime…
Is is a complicated history but I’m not sure you have to full story. The disengagement was not an end to occupation. The occupation was an intentional part of the 1967 war. The concept of transfer has been integral to the development of Israel since decades before it’s founding.
I think there are a few things that should be taken into account:
Hamas stated time and time again that their goal is to take over all of the land that is currently Israel and, to put it extremely mildly, make nearly all the Jewish population not be there.
The Oct. 7th attack has shown that Hamas is willing to commit indiscriminate murder, kidnapping and rape to achieve this goal. Some of the the kidnapped civilians are currently held in Gaza.
Israel had no real choice but to launch an attack against Hamas in order to return the kidnapped citizens and neutralize Hamas as a threat. You could say “Yes, that’s because Because of the aforementioned illegal occupation”, but just like the citizens in Gaza have a right to be protected against bombings regardless of what their government did, Israeli citizens have the right to be protected from being murdered, raped or kidnapped.
So, any true solution has to take both these considerations into account. Right now, the Israeli stance is that once Hamas will no longer control Gaza, the war could end (citizens on both sides will be protected). The Hamas stance is that Israel should cease hostilities so they can work on murdering, raping or kidnapping more Israeli citizens. That isn’t to say Israel is just, rather that Israel is willing to accept a solution that stops the killing of both citizen populations, while Hamas is not. The just solution is for the international community to put pressure on both parties to stop hostilities. The problem is that the parts of the world who would like to see a just solution (Eurpoe, the US etc.) are able to put pressure on Israel, while the parts who don’t hold humane values (Iran, Qatar etc.) support Hamas.
Now, regarding the massive civilian casualties in Gaza:
Hamas has spent many years integrating their military capabilities into civilian infrastructure. This was done as a strategy, specifically to make it harder for Israel to harm Hamas militants without harming civilians.
I’m not trying to say that all civilians killing in Gaza are justified, rather that it’s extremely hard to isolate military targets. Most international law regarding warfare states that warring parties should avoid harming civilians as much as possible. Just saying “Israel is killing TWICE as many innocent civilians as Hamas, therefore they’re attacking Palestinian people as a whole” doesn’t take this into account what’s possible under in the current situation.
Israel is occupying and oppressing what WOULD have otherwise been a sovereign nation.
Bullshit. That’s the official government claim, but it’s clear to anyone with even an ounce of objectivity that it’s actually attacking the Palestinian people as a whole. By their OWN assessment they’re killing TWICE as many innocent civilians as Hamas and since they refuse to show any proof, the ratio is likely much worse.
More than half of the population wasn’t even BORN (let alone of voting age) the last time they were allowed the opportunity to vote for anyone else and even then they ran on false claims of moderation. They are an illegitimate government and civilians who never voted for them shouldn’t suffer for their atrocities.
Because of the aforementioned illegal occupation.
Yes. Nobody sane is defending Hamas. That doesn’t mean that AT LEAST two civilians needs to die for every Hamas terrorist killed.
So civilians should die for the desires of their governments? That would be bad news for the equally innocent Israeli civilians.
Might not be random, but sure as hell isn’t proportionate or otherwise in keeping with international humanitarian law.
It’s at least as important to remember that the only alternative to “nothing” isn’t “a laundry list of horrific crimes against humanity”. Stow the false dichotomies, please.
Which the fascists are using as an excuse to indiscriminately murder civilians including by denying them basic life necessities such as food, water, electricity, fuel, medical treatment and medicine.
TL;DR: I hope AIPAC or another Israeli government agency is paying you well for your efforts, otherwise it’s just sad for you to be spending so much time and effort regurgitating all the long debunked genocide apologia of an apartheid regime…
Removed by mod
Is is a complicated history but I’m not sure you have to full story. The disengagement was not an end to occupation. The occupation was an intentional part of the 1967 war. The concept of transfer has been integral to the development of Israel since decades before it’s founding.
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
Gaza Blockade is still Occupation
Dahiya Doctrine
Gaza March for Return Protest
Apartheid
AWRAD Gaza War Poll
PCPSR Public Opinion Poll Dec 2023
I think there are a few things that should be taken into account:
Israel had no real choice but to launch an attack against Hamas in order to return the kidnapped citizens and neutralize Hamas as a threat. You could say “Yes, that’s because Because of the aforementioned illegal occupation”, but just like the citizens in Gaza have a right to be protected against bombings regardless of what their government did, Israeli citizens have the right to be protected from being murdered, raped or kidnapped.
So, any true solution has to take both these considerations into account. Right now, the Israeli stance is that once Hamas will no longer control Gaza, the war could end (citizens on both sides will be protected). The Hamas stance is that Israel should cease hostilities so they can work on murdering, raping or kidnapping more Israeli citizens. That isn’t to say Israel is just, rather that Israel is willing to accept a solution that stops the killing of both citizen populations, while Hamas is not. The just solution is for the international community to put pressure on both parties to stop hostilities. The problem is that the parts of the world who would like to see a just solution (Eurpoe, the US etc.) are able to put pressure on Israel, while the parts who don’t hold humane values (Iran, Qatar etc.) support Hamas.
Now, regarding the massive civilian casualties in Gaza:
I’m not trying to say that all civilians killing in Gaza are justified, rather that it’s extremely hard to isolate military targets. Most international law regarding warfare states that warring parties should avoid harming civilians as much as possible. Just saying “Israel is killing TWICE as many innocent civilians as Hamas, therefore they’re attacking Palestinian people as a whole” doesn’t take this into account what’s possible under in the current situation.