cross-posted from: https://sopuli.xyz/post/9700996
Nvidia’s AI customers are scared to be seen courting other AI chipmakers for fear of retaliatory shipment delays, says rival firm
That should be your very first clue that Nvidia needs to be broken up into smaller, competing companies.
And CUDA forcefully open sourced.
Yikes, how Draconian. Id be fucking pissed if someone came in and forcibly open sourced a product I had invested millions in developing.
Wait until you hear about generic trademarks
If you took even $1 of grants funded by taxpayers, will you take back your words?
Hey if Nvidia bothered to support OpenCL/SYCL/Vulkan Compute I’d back off but they know they own the space and don’t care about any API but their own.
Thank dog that their ARM purchase got torpedoed.
How do you imagine that would work?
Limit them producing PCIe cards to low volume reference models and require their software to be open source to break that aspect of the lock-in, that’s the two big things. As alternative to the latter, require them to have actual platform docs, right now they’re not only providing the only compiler for their cards which is deliberately incompatible with everything else they’re also making sure that noone else can get performance out of NVidia cards without excessive reverse-engineering, some things are even locked down hard via firmware signing. Splitting AI off from GPU would be a bonus.
require their software to be open source
I’m all for open source, but that would basically be like confiscating and giving away that part of the company.
Something we might expect from China, but not a democratic society.Is their product the GPU or is their product softwares?
They are basically abusing their customers into doing less with the hardware by obfuscating it’s functionality.
AFAIK you don’t pay extra to use CUDA or drivers, so while software is part of the ecosystem, there is no doubt the product is the hardware. When in doubt, follow the money.
It’s both. Jensen himself has said they aren’t a GPU company anymore, highlighting their software stack. CUDA was not built in a day.
CUDA was not mostly ‘built’ by them. It was originally built on top of technology acquired by a company called Aegia. Aegia built an ASIC and a physics engine that could run instructions for the ASIC, called “PhysX” and that team ported their toolchain to run on GPUs and other ASICs.CUDA was initially released in 2007, and Aegia was acquired in 2008. It would be extremely dishonest to not say that CUDA is what it is today due to Nvidia.
I get that hating on big corpos is cool on this platform, but there’s no need to warp reality just to talk smack about them.
So essentially destroying one of US’ most important companies going into the future. Their chips are so highly valued that the US government are creating sanctions specifically to stop the sale of their high end chips to hostile nations. I can’t imagine the US shooting themselves in the foot like that.
If you think that would destroy nvidia you’re selling them quite short. Other companies in the market are following that exact business model: Don’t produce your own boards, actually document the hardware / have FLOSS drivers.
If you’re an nvidia fanboy making nvidia compete on a level playing field by making them play fair sounds of course like a disaster, but you come here and throw national interest into the mix. How the fuck would nvidia losing market share to AMD damage US national interest it would strengthen its standing by having independent options.
It might even enable Intel to secure their foot into the market, remember, the only one among RGB to actually produce their own chips. In the US.
If you think that would destroy nvidia you’re selling them quite short. Other companies in the market are following that exact business model: Don’t produce your own boards, actually document the hardware / have FLOSS drivers.
Nvidia not producing their own boards wouldn’t solve anything but complicate matters for Nvidia. Ask Asus or EVGA what their margins are on their Nvidia GPUs. Nvidia opening their stack to the competition was the only half realistic suggestion.
but you come here and throw national interest into the mix.
Why do you think the whole 4090 D debacle happened? The US government have obvious interests in limiting the compute power China has access too. Nobody cares about their gaming GPUs, it’s the ML chips that are making the waves, and those are of obvious national interest to the US government.
How the fuck would nvidia losing market share to AMD damage US national interest it would strengthen its standing by having independent options.
Brush that chip off your shoulder, not sure what’s making you so angry. And why are you bringing AMD into the picture, they aren’t even the biggest threat to Nvidia’s ML hegemony. I was also specifically referring to how dismantling Nvidia would be counter productive to US interests, not Nvidia’s market share.
It might even enable Intel to secure their foot into the market, remember, the only one among RGB to actually produce their own chips. In the US.
Neither AMD nor Nvidia are into the foundry business so I don’t see how that’s relevant. Intel is decoupling their foundry so nothing is stopping either companies from porting their chips if need be.
Ask Asus or EVGA what their margins are on their Nvidia GPUs. Nvidia opening their stack to the competition was the only half realistic suggestion.
Nvidia could only fuck them over like that because they were able to produce their own boards: If they have to rely on board manufacturers to sell their chips, they have to be nice enough for board manufacturers to actually bother doing that.
The US government have obvious interests in limiting the compute power China has access too.
That’s not the point of contention, this is:
I was also specifically referring to how dismantling Nvidia would be counter productive to US interests, not Nvidia’s market share.
…and market share going to other US companies would hurt that interest in what way exactly?
And why are you bringing AMD into the picture, they aren’t even the biggest threat to Nvidia’s ML hegemony.
AMD shmahemde. There’s a gazillion US startups in the space which could make it, or not, and/or be bought up by AMD or Intel, both certainly have their eyes and products on the market. The US’ national interest is hurt by nvidia’s unfair business practices limiting bringing innovation to market.
Nvidia could only fuck them over like that because they were able to produce their own boards: If they have to rely on board manufacturers to sell their chips, they have to be nice enough for board manufacturers to actually bother doing that.
Margins wouldn’t change. GPUs are brand sellers, OEMs would try to make their margins on other products. E.g. if Asus were to stop producing graphic cards for Nvidia, their mindshare would plummet
…and market share going to other US companies would hurt that interest in what way exactly?
You are the one bringing up market share into the discussion. I haven’t said anything about Nvidia losing market share hurting US interests
AMD shmahemde. There’s a gazillion US startups in the space which could make it, or not, and/or be bought up by AMD or Intel, both certainly have their eyes and products on the market. The US’ national interest is hurt by nvidia’s unfair business practices limiting bringing innovation to market.
You’re acting as if they’re the only actor in the market, but there is competition from multiple sides. You don’t dismantle a company purely on them having a dominant position.
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Monopolies gonna monopoly. Fuck Jensen.
AMD had decades to see where the wind was blowing and offer a first-party CUDA bridge.
NVIDIA earned this monopoly through business savvy predictions.
Built? Sure. Earned? That’s a stretch. Deserved? Fuck no.
Deserved never once appeared in my comment so idk what you’re trying to say.
We live in a capitalist society. Deserved? Probably not. Earned? They’re one of the most valuable companies in the world for a reason.
Wasn’t Nvidia the one that was caught intentionally doing things to break games on competitors drivers with their sponsored games?
Earned isn’t the right word when you have to do shitty things and cut your competition down…
I think we found Robin William’s character in Hook before he went to Never Never Land. 🤣
If I didn’t live in this sick society, I might not believe such a sociopath existed. I bet OP also praises Nestle, Monsanto, and Theranos for their business savvy.
The first user I’ve ever encountered with literally every single comment they ever made showing negative points.
Yeah I saw that too! A super conservative, tech bro chud troll account for sure.
Almost as if they’re perpetually fried. It’s a rage bait account.
Ever heard of OpenCL? AMD started that project. CUDA is closed source.
What kind of hedge fund, MBA, anti-consumer chud counts it as a point AGAINST a company for developing open source technologies when they could have easily closed their IP warchest and offered a first-party CUDA bridge? AMD actively chose to embrace the open source world rather than further enabling a CUDA monopoly. IMO, every computer user in the world owes AMD a debt of gratitude for their contributions to open source technologies like OpenCL.
I can tell you’re a Windows user because if you used Linux for even a single day (you know, the kernel that is the industry standard for virtually ALL internet servers including Microsoft’s), you’d know all too well that NVidia is objectively hostile to open source technologies and the consumers who are unwitting victims of their anti-competitive, closed source technologies.
NVIDIA earned this monopoly through business savvy predictions.
There’s no such thing as earning a monopoly. Even in theory a monopoly can be earned only for an infinitely small moment, until that monopoly is a result of perpetuating itself.
And since this is intuitively obvious, I’d say every person talking about “earning a monopoly” just cannot imagine more honest ways of being successful.
Good business sense in the past does not give them a free pass to now assfuck every consumer (both individual and B2B) so he can buy more leather jackets. Fuck wealth-extracting corporate monopolies, fuck Jensen. Do not support such behavior.
fuck Jensen
I never asked for this
Too bad!
That’s like saying the burgler earned his robbery just because he was business savvy.
Nobody “earns a monopoly”. I’ll take advocating for the public trust over ethical bankruptcy. I’m not aware of anytime that nVidia did anything in fairness, only through high pressure antitrust tactics that border on illegal. Fuck Jensen and fuck nVidia.
through business savvy predictions.
More like through shoving its solutions onto everyone around.
And nope, “earn” is a wrong word.
If only there were some sort of anti-monopoly laws that existed and were actually enforced…
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Lol hilarious watching companies be ruthless then scramble to keep shit together since they only want to line exec pockets and don’t tackle real issues
Fuck them, their customers, fuck their execs 🤞
Fuck them, their customers, fuck their execs
I expect nothing less out of a tech sub filled with people who were too left leaning for even Reddit.
Are you an Nvidia employee with stock options or something? It’s so WEIRD to see you all over this comment section saying they are one of the most valuable companies in the world and by that logic DON’T NEED YOU to defend them, lol.
no one is forcing you to stay
I did some contract work for nvidia a few years ago to build out a data center for a client in the domain of pharmaceutical research. I’ve never worked for any employer more hypersensitive and narcissistic than nvidia. They will waste your time and fire you on the spot if you voice any concerns.
I guess the monopoly has to be preserved, so that Mr. Jensen has pocket money for another leather jacket.
Gaussian, the molecular modeling software company, liked to do similar shit.
No way they would do something like that!
I wonder who this riva^(md)l is.
