I’ve run across these terms several times, but without enough context to figure out what they mean. Could someone help me out, please?

ETA All of you are amazing! A huge thank you to everyone who responded, and an extra thank you to those who have provided links or explanations to further and/or related information. I am learning so much by reading all of these comments!

      • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        1 year ago
        1. Probably ≠ all
        2. Nope, if you do (after Deng for China, after Stalin for USSR, for other time periods you could be a leftist) and have extensively learned about it you probably think you’re a leftist but you’re actually a rightist. Think about how exactly the sum of their policies align with left values more than right values.
        • Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          Nope, if you do (after Deng for China, after Stalin for USSR, for other time periods you could be a leftist) and have extensively learned about it you probably think you’re a leftist but you’re actually a rightist.

          So you think Jeremy Corbyn isn’t left? Lmao. What about Lula? Every Cuban politician?

          Think about how exactly the sum of their policies align with left values more than right values.

          This is you trying to re-align left vs right as culture instead of economic. It’s seriously america-brained bollocks and is not how anyone in the rest of the world views left vs right.

          • ScrimbloBimblo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            16
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            He’s not saying they’re right wing governments, just that they’re highly authoritarian, which is something that leftists, on average, tend to be against, so if someone claims to be “left” but supports Russia, they likely have a poor understanding of one of those things.

            • Shit@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              ·
              1 year ago

              I mean it’s more of an up down issue and not a left right issue right? Most authoritarianism stuff ends up sounding the same. They both hate liberalism and want to stomp it out before they fight it out over the left right divide.

              • FaceDeer@kbin.social
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                9
                ·
                1 year ago

                This is a major example of why I despise the left/right “spectrum” that is so universal in political discourse these days. These views are not simple enough to be defined along a one-dimensional axis like this.

                I’m increasingly fond of the 8 values test, which splits things up along four distinct axes. Still too few, but definitely far better than just one.

                • Shit@sh.itjust.works
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Thanks I like this test more than the other ones I’ve seen. I feel like it needs more questions but that’s the problem with all these tests.

                • Blamemeta@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I got the following:

                  50.6% on the economic axis towards equality, 59.4% on the diplomatic axis, towards nation. 50.4% on the civil axis, towards liberty 55.8% on the societal axis, towards tradition.

                  Makes sense that I get called a Nazi multiple times on this god forsaken tankie-filled site.

            • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              Idk if I like this “left means anti authoritarian” thing I’ve seen floating around recently. By that interpretation right wing individualist anarchism is actually left wing, because though it is called right wing in the traditional sense of individualism v collectivism where collectivism is left wing, it is certainly against authority.

              Rather, I’m fine with this interpretation, but can we all get together and figure out whether or not “left” means “anarchism” or “collectivism?” This “it means either one of the two and people will just decide one is correct and deny the existence of the other definition and which one that is depends on who you’re talking to at that moment, and I won’t define it when askef, I’ll just act like you’re stupid for not knowing which one I choose to use today” shit is getting old and I’m like 99% sure it’s intentional as a technique to appear to win an argument without having any argument to speak of.

            • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 year ago

              Like @shit (from shitjustworks, nice one) said, these don’t conflict. While I didn’t say anything about authoritarian (communism especially vanguardism is authoritarian and it never works out), I personally believe that modern China is right wing. For example, their current government wants to merge traditional values with law.

          • Aatube@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            12
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Thank you for helping to spread Chinese, Soviet, and ableist propaganda. Plus you didn’t respond to that “probably” part.

      • Very_Bad_Janet@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        May I introduce you to the Far Right in America? They are often keen to downplay any Russian acts of aggression. ETA: Not saying that they would fit the definition of tankies, just that you don’t have to be a leftist to (overtly or tacitly) support Russia.

        G.O.P.’s Far Right Seeks to Use Defense Bill to Defund Ukraine War Effort

        The group’s proposals have no chance of passage, but they have further mired the military spending bill in a partisan fight and highlighted Republican divisions over the war.

        https://archive.is/2023.07.13-123054/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/12/us/politics/defense-bill-republicans-ukraine-war.html