- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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We are over the edge of no return.
We should stop begging for change and act now. Politics must hurt them with reforms, taxes, and the rule of law.
We cannot stop climate change now, but we can try to de-accelerate by fighting against big oil, corrupt politics, and billionaire newspapers supporting them.
Too many people believe they can just continue living like they were 30 years ago - if big oil would stop producing stuff and plastics, gas and airplane fuels would not be available anymore then people would riot
Even threatening to increase prices to a level that would make sense to limit the use to absolutely necessary levels would piss off too many people to be a viable option because everyone just wants to believe that it’s just for “the others” to change but not for themselves.
Everyone has to act and change their Livestyle…
Lol that’s the world’s largest prisoner dilemma, never going to happen. People are big children, and you need to treat them as such. You don’t let the child decide whether it’s going to eat candy or real food, you take away the option of candy because they cannot be trusted to make decisions that are good for them in the long run. This is no different, it’s why we have things like regulations and the FDA.
Yeah exactly but in our situation we also have the children voting and one party is promising them to not take away the candy
I really don’t see how this can ever work out… :/
Not to mention the “adults” in this comparison don’t actually care about the child or the candy, they just care about retaining the ability to control your candy and will do anything and everything to keep stockpiling that sweet, sweet money.
Absolutely correct. I myself don’t have children, don’t have a car, and I don’t eat meat. Just pick any of those 3 and try to deal with the reactions to it. People are big children.
You do realize that they are children ruled by other children who shouldn’t get that kind of authority? Do you know what children with power over other children do?
Cool metaphor and all, but just want to be super clear. We’re talking about regulating oil, right? And plastics, coal, other fossil fuel derivatives. And no one’s going to come take away my candy. Stay away from my candy. Don’t take it, it’s mine.
This is the truth right there. Gas prices went up two measly dollars compared to normal in 2022, and everyone flipped the fuck out. People were prepared to elect Republicans-- fucking Republicans- to office, they were so furious about it.
And don’t @ me about “100 corporations are responsible for like 90% of emissions”. Who’s buying those corporations’ goods? Who’s refusing to vote for politicians that’ll meaningfully regulate these corporations? Who’s spending all day fantasizing about Da Revolushun^TM that’ll never fucking come (and would kill tens of millions of civilians and likely result in fascists winning and seizing control of your country, if not the whole thing splintering into a bunch of warring fiefdoms controlled by ruthless oligarchs) instead of getting to actual work trying to effect real change in the real world? And I don’t mean “direct action” (read: looking edgy and getting photos for the 'gram), I mean actually fucking getting policy passed that’ll have a real impact on people’s real lives.
Emissions can’t be stopped at the point of consumption.
This is it exactly. We have to turn off the f*cking spigot at the source!
There is no amount of science or innovation that’s going to save us. It’s going to take “holy shit we’re all going to die horribly” panic from world leaders to forcefully cut off the source, which is oil and its byproducts.
Short of that, no amount of responsible consumerism can stem this tide.
Not immediately but they’ll stop producing if people stop buying. Just takes a lot of people to have any meaningful change. And that starts with every single one of us.
And that’ll never happen, because everyone else will ignore you and just buy the shit anyway.
It NEEDS to be regulatory change. Shaming consumers into not consuming doesn’t work. Oil companies want you to think it works, that’s why THEY invented the concept of the carbon footprint. To make everyone ignore real solutions that could actually work.
“Think globally, act locally” and other such clever slogans that seemed so logical and made so little impact.
How about “round up the heads of oil companies and deliver them to a firing squad?”
Not as much zing to it though.
That can never work. You can’t boycott a business into not producing.
If i could buy none polluting alternatives to anything i currently buy, you can bet your life that i would.
But i dont have alot of choice.
I do what i can.
Maybe ill give it all up and go live in the woods somewhere. Become self sufficient. Maybe the capitalists will notice im gone… or not… probably not.
Policy like regulating those 100 corporations?
Yes. I said so explicitly in my previous comment.
Seems odd to say
And don’t @ me about “100 corporations are responsible for like 90% of emissions”. Who’s buying those corporations’ goods?
People bringing up the 100 corporations are usually calling for regulations on them, and the “you’re the ones buying the goods” people are usually calling for Personal Responsibility and Voting With Your Wallet.
It’s possible to both think those companies should be regulated and that people are doing almost nothing personally to help, including electing people to enact those policies. For most people I talk to the “but 100 corps” is a total deflection of personal responsibility. This crisis will not be solved without a good heaping helping of both personal responsibility and aggressive government regulation. If nothing else because that aggressive regulation will never pass into law unless people acknowledge their personal responsibility and are willing to accept the sacrifices that will come with it.
In the US, unless you are willing to vote third party, you don’t get the choice to vote for Anti-Capitalist politicians. And there are millions of liberals waiting in line to scold you for not voting for the parties of Capital.
This crisis will not be solved without a good heaping helping of both personal responsibility and aggressive government regulation.
100%. People usually argue for one to the exclusion of the other but we need both.
Sorry, I’m so used to hanging out in left-of-center places I make the mistake of assuming everyone understands how BS the whole “personal responsibilty” shtick is and is onboard with strict regulations to fight climate change. So I tend not to explicitly call it out in my posts, assuming it goes unsaid. Which might be a bad assumption to make in more centrist / non-explicitly-liberal spaces.
Will try to be clearer in the future :)
I agree with you… It passes people off because their entire life is dependent on fossil fuels. When its been encouraged by society/government for decades and now people have to drive miles to get to the nearest grocery store/point of interest they don’t have an alternative that isn’t uprooting their whole lives.
If you are going tax gas what it should be taxed, you also need to simultaneously make changes that will help people transition to sustainable alternatives. An amount of people will resist no matter what but you need a carrot to go along with the stick.
Where I live we get one or more times a week 40°C and over days.
Going from home to work is a 30 minutes drive for me. I drive a 2004 petrol Opel Agila.
The train requires you to be on-point, otherwise is a 50 minutes wait for the next run. Also, from the main train station to work is a 20 minutes added walk. This is not too bad, but the worst part is doing the walk under the heat we have here during the summer. Good thing it ends up actually being cheaper than driving my Agila, counting a subscription is €30 while I fuel €15 each week.
The bus is never on-point, always late, always destroyed, always trashy, always overwhelmingly full, skips runs and its not uncommon for it to stop working while you are on it. And you still need the 20 minutes walk. By the way, its too a paid service.
When I will be able to financially, I want to at least move to a newer electric vehicle or use the train during fall and winter. But at least right now during summer, I just can’t without arriving at work like a bucket of salt water had been thrown at me (as there is little good shade on the way) and we don’t have showers at work.
Other people might not even have the chance to made this decision, as public services can be even harder to use in some other areas.
Everyone has to act and change their Livestyle…
I “kinda” disagree, because we have a lot of alternatives now. Some are more expensive, some need a bit more work, but the alternatives are there and are coming as well. And little changes can do good things, for example not eating Avocados is something everyone can do. If only 50k people stop eating Avocados, that’s one hell of an impact in the rainforest areas. Because those 50k people don’t eat one Avocado per Month, they eat a lot more (generally). A single Avocado Tree can produce 80-100 Kg per year and generally, avocados are somewhere between 500-900 g. So maybe 120-150 Avocados per year, per tree. Then there’s meat - we don’t have to stop eating it, we have to reduce and it would make a HUGE impact, especially considering Beef from Brazil isn’t even that great, but the rainforest get’s destroyed for it.
And so on. It even goes so far, that if people still want to drive their gas guzzlers, they can, but they need synthetic fuels which are expensive but 100% carbon neutral. So the Lifestyle does not need changing necessarily - it just needs some adjustments and especially more conscious consumption - especially in those countries, where capitalism is in “full effect” and where we “rich people” actually make impacts with our buying decisions. (Even if they are extremely small, if you tell friends you are doing things different, they may do as well)
Politics must hurt them with reforms, taxes, and the rule of law.
Yeah… that’s how we ended up in this situation. How do you think these giant corporations became so powerful? They “reformed” laws until they could do whatever the hell they please - that’s what “reform” gets you.
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It’s really simple… the people with money get to dictate how these “reforms” work - that’s it. It doesn’t matter if you get a Bernie Sanders into a position of power - the “vested interests” will dictate all the little loop holes in the small script that allows for “business as usual” to continue, and that’s if they bother to hide it at all. It’s literally how we ended up in this terrible situation.
Yes, which is why you should hit where you are not expected.
Which is why statism always works for the stronger side.
I don’t get why leftists don’t usually understand this. I’m not a leftist, but this should be a very simple conclusion.
I don’t know what kind of “leftists” you have been talking to… the ones I talk to understand this very well. It’s pretty much been the bedrock of anarchist thought for more than a hundred years now.
I live in Russia so most leftists here are Stalinists in one way or another, or at least Trostkyists, which still means centralism.
Stalinists are right-wingers with red flags - there’s nothing leftist about them at all. Trots are barely any better. People forget that leftist ideas are popular - that is why there are so many political racketeers in the world pretending to buy into those ideas while actively distorting the same ideas to suit their political agenda. Even old Adolf did it - but no-one is as guilty as the charlatans that ran the USSR and is currently running the PRC. The USSR was about as “socialist” as the US is “democratic” - ie, their (respective) “socialism” and “democracy” only exists in the minds of propagandists.
It’s pretty much been the bedrock of anarchist thought for more than a hundred years now.
And anarchists are a rounding error, numerically. You’re in a bubble.
Is that some secret code between you and the aliens that will be coming to fetch you “any day now,” Clyde?
Politicians love their bribes more than they love the planet, so that’s probably not going to happen. Dems and cons both
“bOtH sIdEs”
Fuck off
You read a comment from a person criticizing the current government for being self motivated and taking bribes under a story about climate change and how we’re all fucked and you thought this was a centrist comment?
Ya right. When has prices went over 5 dollars a gallon in the US, people there list their minds. God forbid we should drive a bit less or consume less.
This is a consumer problem not big oil. The second biggest company in the world by revenue and by far the largest by profit is Saudi Aramco. And why are they so big and countries like Russia are energy giants? Because we are tax and regulated our oil companies significantly more while increasing our consumption. Instead of buying locally, we are now buying from countries like Russia and Saudia Arabia. Look how that is working out.
Reformism will do nothing, only a revolution can.
Preach
Let me know when you hit puberty
Let me know when you get over your boot licking addiction.
capitalism can’t solve climate change :(
Nope, especially since it’s the biggest contributor to it.
What a vague and silly comment, half the world’s top contributors to greenhouse gasses aren’t even capitalist countries. I get the fediverse isn’t a fan of capitalism, but you can’t just blanketly blame everything on it.
The US military is the single largest polluter organisation on the planet - do tell me how we can’t blame capitalism again?
And just for your information - that other gigantic capitalist country you falsely believe isn’t capitalist? Guess what? It’s capitalist.
The US military is the world’s largest socialist organization. Universal health care, pensions, free college and job training, free housing…
The US military is the world’s largest socialist organization.
Oh, do please explain to us how worker ownership of the means of production works in the US military.
Wait, don’t answer yet… I quickly have to get some popcorn. This is going to be good.
Taxes
Is there any other way?
Taxes
Taxes? That’s how the working class owns the means of production in the US military?
Am I talking to a damn chatbot here? It sure as hell sounds like it.
Also, non-capitalist countries tend to be low emitters because they are failed countries whose people live in miserable poverty.
Also, non-capitalist countries
What non-capitalist countries?
Cubas pretty green for what its worth.
China is the number one greenhouse gas contributor, Russia is near the top of the list as well. Fuck off tankies.
If you think those 2 are communist countries, you’re stuck in the last century. Let me give you some news. The Soviet Union collapsed and gave way to a capitalist oligarchy. China realized that capitalism is profitable and brings them tons of money from the west. I have no idea why tankies still simp those countries as communist (wait, I do actually - because tankies never had any principles of their own, they just wanted to be anti-west).
There is one country that needs to kickstart change for it to have any effect, it’s the US. Not only does it pollute the most per capita, it’s a huge market. My tiny ass country with fuel prices already being twice as much in the US, can raise fuel prices even more, but that won’t affect global demand. Americans no longer getting fuel for essentially free, would actually affect global demand.
Yes, of course, because political systems are binary and there’s only capitalism and communism lmao
There’s plenty of systems that mix both, but Russia and China aren’t actually good examples. They’re pretty capitalist.
If you want a better example of mixing capitalism with socialism, you can take a look at something like the Nordic countries, where there are tons of social services and safety nets, but there’s still a very strong (just regulated) free market.
Those 2 are literally capitalist countries. Also tankies are the ones who commonly say China is not capitalist.
Lol the fuck, no they aren’t
What makes you think that?
China is the number one
Sooo… a capitalist state?
Russia is near the top
Sooo… another capitalist state?
Fuck off tankies.
You don’t know what a tankie is, do you?
I knew it was a bad day when we allowed liberals access to that word.
Oh gross, you’re one of those
You walked blindly into this argument with absolutely zero understanding of the subject matter at hand, didn’t you?
Do you think a tankie would say China is a capitalist nation? Liberalism really is worse than brain cancer. They are either an anarchist or some other shit, you just see the names of the enemies of the empire and scream, you poor ignorant Gringo.
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Just as there are hordes of idiots on the right who call anything they don’t like “socialism”, there are a few idiots - primarily teenagers - on the left who call anything they don’t like “capitalism”.
After the supreme court invalidated Roe v Wade, I attended a rally. I walked away when one of the speakers started shouting “We know what the real problem is…capitalism!” and all the university kids started cheering.
I love the enthusiasm and your heart’s in the right place but y’all are dumber than a bag of bowling balls.
You can have industrialized production and consumerism without capitalism. Not that I’m defending capitalism, I just think our problem is deeper than what you make it, and human nature combined with unchecked technological ability to remodel out planet would yield the same outcome, no matter the dominant flavor of our economical structure.
Capitalism can not solve shit.
It can only provide record profits. Thats its only goal.
It’s not a full solution, but I’d love to see more use of compostable single-use plastics coupled with municipal biochar facilities.
It’s an excellent cycle that harnesses capitalism and materialism. People buy single use plastics, then throw them away. Municipal garbage (a utility company paid for by ratepayers), picks it up, and brings it to a biochar facility. The facility pyrolizes it, making syngas (which they burn for energy which is then purchased by consumers) and biochar, which is sold as a soil amendment and happens to be carbon-negative. Excess biochar can be buried.
It’s a typical capitalist create-consume economy except it’s carbon-negative (when paired with decarbonized transportation like electric trains and delivery vans, and hydrogen powered garbage trucks). The more you consume, the more carbon you actually suck out of the air.
There’s a few proposed loops like this which instead of fighting consumerism actually harness it to make carbon negative actions. Another one that I’m very interested in is making HVAC filters that also passively absorb carbon from the atmosphere. With electric heat pumps we already have an HVAC technology that is minimally emitting. Pair that with carbon negative filters and you’re golden.
Or concrete using injected co2. It’s a real thing that exists, it just doesn’t have price parity with traditional carbon-intensive concrete. Imagine if just by building a building you could be carbon negative.
Again, it’s not a total solution but I wish I could see more use cases like this instead of the “consume less” narrative. People are not going to consume less, that’s not how people work. The only way to get people to consume less is by raising prices (which is a necessary part of the solution of course).
Oh, the capitalists didn’t do what their public relations exercises pretended they were going to do? Golly gee… no one could have seen that coming at all.
Fuck oil companies
The only thing big corporations care about is next quarter’s profits. The world can quite literally burn next year if they get their big profits this quarter.
And if the world burns, they sure won’t be the ones suffering the worst
These companies will not change unless they are forced to do so and our government isn’t going to do shit since most of congress is in the pocket of big oil. So what are our other options?
Everyone likes to blame individuals for not using renewables or buying an electric car, when it reality their options were limited in the first place by big oil. Most people can barely afford to put food on the table and green or renewable products are usually significantly more expensive and not really an option. Besides that, IIRC ordinary citizens only account for roughly 20% of all greenhouse gas emissions. So the onus lies on big oil to make changes and offer affordable renewable options instead of the same gas guzzling/polluting bullshit we’ve been offered up to this point. But like I said, they won’t do something like that unless they are forced to do so, they will always pursue profit over people, unless those people get in their faces and force them to pursue other options.
It’s time for radical action and violent resistance.
We’re staring into the face of human extinction and people are still quibbling about consumer choice.
it’s going to take much, much more direct and violent action to force change.
If current green companies can’t make affordable options, why in God’s earth would you think it would be cheaper if conventional energy companies join the mix?
Your entire statement is conflicting. Angry about high costs being unaffordable then suggesting oil companies to not produce low cost energy that keeps prices down while acknowledging the high cost of green energy.
Relying on businesses to self regulate doesn’t work?
I am shocked! Shocked!
No govt will hold them accountable, so energy firms can walk forwards/ backwards/ play hopscotch on their pledges and it’ll be ignored.
Well golly gee, they’re breaking promises they never intended to keep?
I have low expectation but damn…didn’t think that they’d be that low.
We all are trying to do our parts you know, I used to like cars when I was in HS, now I don’t even consider having one. I’ll stick to public transport and will get an electric last mile transport.
These people sucks ass. They have the monetary power to make real change but decided to double down. Nowadays investments in renewables have good returns and will be viable for the next couple decades, but they care too much for their previously invested monies and want to milk the people to the last drop.
Man, you are so right. The weirdest part is, that your behavior isn’t even socially very accepted.
I, too, love engines. I admire the technology and how genius they are put together. My dream is to own a cruiser motorbike and go drive through the countryside. I don’t think this will happen, as I would hate myself to burn fuel for pleasure.
I own a very old, tiny scooter, that I only use to carry heavy stuff. I used to carry on my shoulders, but mom in law felt sorry for me and gave me her oldest, broken, rusty scooter, that nobody used for months, because she bought a new one again. I repaired it. My wife gets upset, when I don’t drive her around. For example to the market 500 meters down the road to buy a can of soda or so. I only use it for hard work.
People surrounding me think I don’t like progress. No, man, I would love to have a more convenient life! Driving to me is fun, I enjoy it! I just can’t stand myself to do something bad to environment for my pleasure, so I try not to. And people think I’m weird.
I know people like you and me don’t even make a difference. Whatever amount we save and not emit in our whole lifetime - some ignorant wealthy will blow out within 5 minutes.
I don’t think this will happen, as I would hate myself to burn fuel for pleasure.
Modify one to run off biofuel? You can even make the fuel yourself
The best part is that governments are still massively subsidizing fossil fuels.
There is no paywall here though? I had no issue reading the article at least…
No paywall for me either, plus I was able to read it without javascript.
They are talking about the website asking for optional donations. That is it.
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Guillotine
Revloution?
Kill?
rofl?
Implement antitrust laws?
Violence…
