I’m not trying to convince anyone to go back i promise, quite the contrary actually cause I think spez plans to just decrease the cost of the API and act like it was a bargain deal sacrifice while not solving any of the issues at all
But, when I think about it even if spez did actually listen and reverse all changes I don’t think i want to go back to Reddit cause from what Ive seen Lemmy is just friendlier and less :Be Corporate Friendly: I would honestly love it if Lemmy did a project like r/place one of these days so we could see what the internet is actually like instead of what happened in 2022 (I really did enjoy what a bunch of communities did but when the mods started abusing their powers to make it corporate r/place lost so much meaning) but i am curious since i’m not going back is there anything Reddit can do to make you go back to Reddit?
A week ago: Bring down the API costs. I’d have begrudgingly accepted paying a few extra bucks a year for Apollo Ultra.
Today: Nothing. Reddit admins acted like smug children in the face of the Apollo Dev’s good faith questions, then the CEO and admins pulled the stunt of trying to act like the dev threatened them. Then the CEO doubled down on that story in the sham AMA. I don’t want to feed that machine anymore.
I have edited and then deleted all my posts and comments except for a few final ones that will go soon. I will keep the account but only as a point of contact for some people until I get them all contacting my email instead.
Same. Maybe if u/spez got fired and the new CEO did a complete 180, but that’s not going to happen.
No Spez
No current reddit admins
No API fees
No other weird 3rd party killing nonsense
Everybody gets frosty chocolate milkshakes
That would be a maybe.
And an apology to Christian, the dev of Apollo, on the napkins that come with the milkshakes!
deleted by creator
And no more power mods
Old boss, same as the new boss. I don’t think spez made the decision on their own, they absolutely suck but they’re just the scapegoat., the problem is the whole company and its structure.
I’ve only been here for a day, but the lack of homophobia and transphobia here compared to Reddit has been a breath of fresh air. I’m not afraid of posting here like I was on Reddit, where I’d actually have to debate with myself for a minute or two before posting. It’s like finally leaving a bad relationship; now I’m starting to see how bad that all was for my mental health.
Use the report button if you see any of that too, we will not tolerate it here.
Reddit thrives off of letting homophobes and transpbobes ruin everyone’s day, because it drives up their engagement numbers. We aren’t going to allow that here.
That’s a real relief to me. I see enough of that living in a very red town in a red state. Online communities are one of my only ways to talk to people who don’t want me gone.
This is so relieving tbh its mindboggling to me why all these massive sites never took a stance against homophobes/racists/transphobes like this. its been proven to hurt profits when hate is allowed on any site as people dont like being abused like i swear it cant just be that the CEOs were complacent although its sadly a dumb enough reason to be true.
Also been loving your app Dessalines its been great so far :D (if you tab out of the screen while writing though it does delete text but that aint a real issue though lol)
Thanks! Ya spending any amount of time on reddit or in youtube comments is a hair-pulling experience.
Huffman was always a white supremacist libertarian (and one of those ultra-rich preppers
Oh my lord was he one of the idiots that tried to get a study on how to force a militia group to serve them after an apolcolapse? I remember that story from years ago
Yep. My personal “favorite” quote from that article is incredibly telling of how spez thinks of himself.
“Being around other people is a good thing. I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove.” - Steve “spez” Hoffman
Wth no wonder he stayed off the site I think half of Reddit would drop kick him for being in a thread
It’s so interesting to me to hear things like this, because I have to guess you’re in completely different subs than I was / am in. I never saw anything like that, but I also don’t recall seeing very much “cesspool” on reddit either. Of course, I only went to 4 subs regularly and a total of maybe 15 ever?
Which is kind of the hard part for lemmy is the “niche” stuff (like photography is much smaller here, and the main photo sub is like one or two pics per day, so we really need something like ITAP or photocritique), multitools, etc.
The worst of it, by far, is of course the front page. But some of the subs I can think of off the top of my head where I encountered trans or homophobia are r/Science and even r/Pathfinder2e (if you know anything about the Pathfinder universe, this might seem mind boggling). There was pro LGBTQ+ support in many of these subreddits, but there was always a comment or a debate or whatever in every queer related thread.
The subreddit for the state I live in, while generally supportive, has numerous comments debating my right to exist as a queer person in most threads even vaguely LGBT related. It’s frustrating knowing I could basically only find refuge in LGBT subreddits. Everywhere else, there was always someone making a jab or starting an argument. It’s exhausting.
Wow - I’m so glad I never got into the front page at all, or looked for subs based on location. I always thought that was a Facebook thing (and I don’t use facebook). I suppose the only place I would have seen anything like that was in changemyview which is where you go to have an argument anyway.
I joined my state’s subreddit to keep an eye on local happenings. Our news outlets aren’t the best, so it was a good way to hear what was going on. For the most part, it was a good community. But there was always a handful of people who had to argue equal rights every time it came up and it was disheartening to see the same hate every single time.
Apparently I should get into photography, because your experience on Reddit sounds so chill! LOL
Well, we just argue a lot about sensor size / format, is Canon or Sony better and how many thousands of dollars we spent on cameras and lenses. Many people have opinions. I guess it’s not attacking anyone’s identity, unless you think Sony Fanboy is a critical part of your person. Kind of like the IT OS wars lol.
But yes, that and like multitools - we’re arguing about Victorianox vs Leatherman… These sorts of subs are pretty chill, and not a lot of drama that I can remember. I think things that are about something you’re a fan of, rather than location or very broad seem to be a lot better experience on reddit. And sadly, these are the communities I mostly access on my phone via RedReader and that I either would be spamming or just confusing many members if I said come on over to the lemmyverse. There are some standalone forums from long ago though that still run, so I might have to go over there if I care enough.
I’m all for a good debate. I frequented the technology subreddits since they’re related to my work and I love a good OS or language debate. I’ve learned a lot from hearing other people’s arguments. So that all sounds like friendly banter to me!
I do think the smaller the subreddit, the safer you are. Most of my best experiences are in those subreddits. I just found myself wishing I could explore Reddit a bit more without walking away bummed out by all the hate. It’s hard finding a good subreddit.
I can imagine that - I just never really felt the need to explore reddit, which might be my loss, and also why I don’t get a lot of “how reddit is”. I’m painfully out of touch for being so online (never did facebook or twitter at all), and really prefer stuff that is open…
So I’m aware I have a weird view of the online world - but I guess it’s also why I’m incensed about killing third party apps. I hate the change away from protocols where you could choose how you interacted with the net to products where the UI changes on a whim, usually for the worse, and you’re “running in place” just to do today what you did yesterday. What pisses me off the most is there’s no reason the world needs to be this way - Companies sold new cars every year without swapping around the pedals ever other year. Most home improvements are improvements but aren’t changing the UI for the house. LED bulbs don’t actually require an app for instance. We’ve had chainsaws for decades and even the electric ones work the same way and look about the same.
I don’t know why computers and the net can’t be like that. Why can’t I use Thunderbird or Vivaldi while you use Outlook and Firefox but we aren’t cutting each other off? This is why I like the fediverse. It’s why I liked IRC, and e-mail. It’s one of my main reservations about even otherwise good tools like Signal.
And it’s not like usenet providers or e-mail servers don’t make money. But back to my main point that people won’t pay for access, though I think if we went back to something more like usenet where you paid for “all the groups” rather than on a per site / per forum basic might work or again get bundled with your ISP like email and usenet were.
i kind of want reddit to die now. people talking to one another shouldn’t be monetized or debased through some spyware algorithm run by antisocial dickheads.
They’ve lost me for good. Lemmy is a huge learning curve but I’m here for it. It reminds me of an early Reddit right around the Digg era. I’m excited.
I agree, though I’m a bit scared that the large, sudden influx of people will mean there will be an influx of bots similar to the number of bots on reddit, and that would be a mess
Honestly, I feel like my time with Reddit is done now. You know how when someone breaks up with you and you’re in shock that it’s over but then you start reflecting and realising everything that was wrong with the relationship? That. I feel like Lemmy, and the fediverse, is a really interesting alternative way of doing things, I’m not the most tech savvy (or the least) and at nearly 50 it’s a bit harder for me to pick up new concepts than it was 20 years ago, but I’ll get the hang of it, and I actually think that this will end up being a positive change for me. There is so much wrong with the corporatisation of the internet, and this does feel like a viable and genuine alternative to that.
I’m in the same boat. I believe we’ll get the hang of it eventually thou. See you around.
I remember Reddit being quite confusing when I started and different to most social media. It took me a while to get my head around following communities and not individuals. Federation is something quite different, but the feel is very old school reddit and I’m finding it pretty easy to learn, just with less creature comforts at the moment that I’m sure will come with time.
That’s exactly how I feel. Even just the way comments were structured was weird, let alone the idea of subreddits
Yep, most of my friends don’t use Reddit ‘because it’s too confusing’. They stick to FB and Instagram, even while moaning about capitalism and corporates. The sad fact is that the corporates have the money to make their UIs super easy to use. Plus a lot of people only want the connections to other individuals from their social media, they’re not interested in something broader than that. I’m hoping the format here keeps the bots away, that’s been another nail in the Reddit coffin for me. It’s become a site filled with bots commenting on botposts.
There’s dozens of us!
He accused a small 3rd party app solo developer who was working for FREE of blackmailing and threatening him. Spez would have to step down and sell Reddit to someone with better integrity and morals for me to go back.
Yeah, firing spez and the leadership team that pushed this forward is the bare minimum for showing contrition here. I’m not against a paid API that has prices based in reality instead of whatever the hell they gave us, but fundamental changes to an API like this require a minimum 12 months lead time before the change goes active.
The 30 days they gave shows an intentional disregard for the business continuity and contractual obligations of the developers who utilize the API.
What would reddit need to do?
Federate
It won’t happen. Reddit is dying. The culture has had a massive shift and you simply don’t recover from that. When they have their IPO it will be very telling.
But based on this fiasco, any sane investor would have some serious reservations about the leadership of Reddit but its future in the social networking space.
They pissed off a LOT of people, and those people are the ones that create all of the content.
But look across the social media spectrum. FB, Twitter, Reddit. All of them are just tanking.
We are on the precipice of a big paradigm shift in how we communicate with one another online.
It honestly feels like a perfect storm to me
deleted by creator
It’s a pipe dream but at this point that’s the only thing that would bring me back
same here, that’s the only thing that would make me even consider coming back.
also just better management in general is desperately needed, spez needs to go.
Today’s AMA was something else. I honestly don’t know how a founder of reddit doesn’t understand reddit users.
I really like/liked reddit. I’ve been on it since digg v4 happened. Rif dies, I’m done using reddit on my phone. I’m not installing their app. If old dies, then I’m completely done with reddit. I’m not using new. Chances are I’ll use reddit less and less anyway though.
On the topic of not understanding reddit users, the audacity that Spez had to double down on slandering the Apollo dev was jaw dropping. The reddit community came out in force with receipts and a recording! One look at how much effort and detail these people were putting into their questions and comments should have told him to back off, but he couldn’t help himself.
This really does feel like the Digg exodus of yesteryear
Just got to keep that momentum going.
At this point, it’s only going to get worse. It’s a very large Venture Capital backed company, on track to IPO.
Large VC/public companies goals will follow more of what we see with “mainstream” sites and social media. It’d be against their goals and their business to have less ads, less agorithms showing what their partners want to see and not what the user wants to see, less bloat on their front end. Even if the CEO wanted to go that way, he’d quickly be replaced.
It’s a self sustaining movement of capital now and users are annoyances that they have to deal to achieve their goals.
I’ll be honest, I started using redding decade ago because most forums were very niche, specific, with weird to follow rules, very low on users, and reddit seemed to always have a community for each topic I had an interest on. It still does, but the end is approaching fast, and I don’t want to search Discord servers, social media videos, or even ancient methods that are alternatives like IRC servers, mailing lists ; search results are useless in Google due to SEO and already affect other search engines
It all comes up to finding one or more sites that don’t look ancient or too mobile focused, and if enough people are going to use it and stick to it. Otherwise it’ll just be another corner of the web filled with a few crazy users
Honestly, nothing. I was pretty hopeful to see a change of heart during the AMA, but clearly that didn’t happen. Good riddance, long live the fediverse.
I was pretty hopeful to see a change of heart during the AMA,
Alas, I had no such optimism. Unfortunately, my cynicism was correct. :(
-
Ban the handful of moderators who run hundreds of subs between themselves, along with those responsible for moderating AgainstHateSubreddits and ShitRedditSays. Both communities in particular have done tonnes of damage to Reddit as a platform.
-
Add clear house rules that make Reddit a better place. Banning things like sexualised content of minors, involuntary/revenge porn, racial hatred, etc shouldn’t come as a result of the press generating negative publicity and hurting Reddit’s bottom line, they should be basic humanitarian requirements to run a social media platform. I mean look at the reason why they banned /r/NoNewNormal, they quoted some bullshit jargon statistics about vote manipulation and used that as a basis to ban them rather than doing what any sane person would do and forbid medical misinformation.
-
Make the official app actually good. There’s a reason why tonnes of people use BaconReader, Apollo, Reddit Is Fun, etc, and why almost every web user prefers Reddit’s old minimalistic UI, and it says a lot when a fediverse clone has a better rich text editor than the ‘Fancy Pants Editor’ of New Reddit…
-
Spez resigns and brings in somebody more like Aaron Swartz in terms of their beliefs on free speech to run the company.
Ala point 4, don’t let Spez be the only fall guy. Not that it will change anything… but still.
Right. Remember when they brought in Ellen Pao to make all kinds of unpopular changes then got rid of her and kept the changes? She was intentionally a fall guy. People other than just Spez are making the decisions.
Right… and obviously spez’s end goal here is to cash out. At which point he is presumably planning on quitting anyway.
AgainstHateSubreddits
What damage has this sub done?
They help shut down bigoted and hateful communities. Sounds good.
Buuut they’re biased. Anything that’s pro-ccp, pro-stalin, or even pro-holodomor is politely ignored by them. Likewise, they also operate racist subreddits towards white ethnic groups and encourage self-harm and suicide for vulnerable men.
There are also rumours of AHS posting ToS-violating content on subs they dislike, such as CP. Of course these don’t have much substance aside from the fact that AHS previously trolled The_Donald by “leaking” a false document to The_Donald mod-team (meaning posting false content on other subs is something they have done).
> Buuut they’re biased. Anything that’s pro-ccp, pro-stalin, or even pro-holodomor is politely ignored by them
I was able to find these couple links on the first few page of AHS, so I’m not sure how true that is.
Besides, following this to it’s conclusion, if we are going to ban mods for doing damage to reddit (being biased), every subreddit would need to get nuked because everybody has biases.
> Likewise, they also operate racist subreddits towards white ethnic groups and encourage self-harm and suicide for vulnerable men.
What is the evidence for this?
> There are also rumours of AHS posting ToS-violating content on subs they dislike, such as CP.
I’m looking for more than just rumors.
> AHS previously trolled The_Donald by “leaking” a false document
Do you have a source for this?
AgainstHateSubreddits deem anything and everything they don’t agree with a hate sub. For example, they’ve bunched communities like /r/SubredditCancer and /r/WatchRedditDie in the same group as places like /r/The_Donald, /r/TheRedPill, /r/KotakuInAction and other communities whose names I won’t state here, as they contain racial slurs. They’re also the reason why SRC was banned and WRD all but abandoned the site.
Some have also accused them of being agent provocateurs who infiltrate subs they don’t like and post rule-breaking content (a bit like how law enforcement have been known to infiltrate and escalate peaceful protests into violence), but there’s little to no evidence of this. I wouldn’t put it past them though…
They are also the mods who think it’s fine to run bots that trawl through any controversial sub and automatically ban anybody for even participating in these communities. It’s the kind of crap that has turned Reddit into a partisan hellhole and not the bastion of open discussion that was originally envisioned.
As for ShitRedditSays, I agree with their overall message that there is a lot of problematic content on Reddit, and I completely agree that Reddit should have taken action against legal grey-area subs far sooner and ditched their laissez-faire approach to content moderation, but I don’t agree with the methods they’ve used to get their message across.
Can’t find the specific Reddit comment but Yishan Wong (Reddit’s former CEO) has gone on record to say that that they were at one point doxxing and harassing Reddit employees, yet nobody on the team had the nerve to actually ban them from the site.
Also, Violentacrez. Dude was a creep who served as a gatekeeper for some of the most morally decrepit communities on the site. I completely agree that he needed to go but not with how he was basically doxxed. I mean Adrian Chen remains the only Reddit user to dox another user and not be banned for it.
> AgainstHateSubreddits deem anything and everything they don’t agree with a hate sub.
Isn’t that kinda the purpose of the subreddit by definition? The things they disagree with is bigotry, so I don’t see why it’s a surprise that the things they call out are things they disagree with.
But even if I did agree with you here, them being wrong about something doesn’t automatically mean that they’re doing damage.
> but there’s little to no evidence of this. I wouldn’t put it past them though…
If there is little to no evidence, why bring it up?
> It’s the kind of crap that has turned Reddit into a partisan hellhole and not the bastion of open discussion that was originally envisioned.
Is them doing that really the cause? Because it seems that political polarization is happening everywhere online.
> Can’t find the specific Reddit comment but Yishan Wong (Reddit’s former CEO) has gone on record to say that that they were at one point doxxing and harassing Reddit employees, yet nobody on the team had the nerve to actually ban them from the site.
I tend not to put too much belief into the word of reddit admins. Just look at the current drama between /u/spez and the Apollo dev Christian.
> I completely agree that he needed to go but not with how he was basically doxxed
Did this actually have anything to do with /r/againsthatesubreddits, or their mods?
Isn’t that kinda the purpose of the subreddit by definition? The things they disagree with is bigotry, so I don’t see why it’s a surprise that the things they call out are things they disagree with.
But even if I did agree with you here, them being wrong about something doesn’t automatically mean that they’re doing damage.
There is a huge difference between hate speech and calling out Reddit’s most prolific moderators for going on a power trip, especially when a lot of the bans posted on SRC were honestly unjustified.
If there is little to no evidence, why bring it up?
Because it’s a tactic commonly used by law enforcement and something AHS are commonly accused of. They’re also in cahoots with the admins, and a lot of people distrust the site’s admins.
Is them doing that really the cause? Because it seems that political polarization is happening everywhere online.
It definitely started with them, and it’s unfortunately also the same tactics that right-wing subreddits like /r/conservative and /r/the_donald adopted. Critical thinking is anathema in modern Reddit.
Can’t find the specific Reddit comment but Yishan Wong (Reddit’s former CEO) has gone on record to say that that they were at one point doxxing and harassing Reddit employees, yet nobody on the team had the nerve to actually ban them from the site.
I dunno, I’d consider Yishan far more trustworthy than Spez or kn0thing. The former is looking to monetize the fuck out of Reddit while Alexis is a man of no principles who obviously left his position because his wife finally put her foot down and told him to stop giving hate speech a platform.
Did this actually have anything to do with /r/againsthatesubreddits, or their mods?
Nothing to do with AHS, but definitely everything to do with /r/ShitRedditSays.
SRS was really funny but hasn’t been relevant in since like…2011? 2012? AHS are was a good sub.
If people took them seriously instead of forcing them to scream into the void, we’d be in a way different situation right now.
-
If
old.reddit.comgets taken down, I’m out for good.As good as the fediverse is, there has to be a tremendous amount of work to make it easier for non-tech folks to participate. I am excited though, being here certainly feels like the good old simpler web.
The way reddit allowed for non techies to join in was really its best attribute.
But now I feel like they’re being duped.
Anyone from back in the day knew some basics they had to put in place to make it usable for what it was intended like RiF or RES.
It just makes me wonder who their target user really is at this point…
Shareholders.
The API change was just another nail in the coffin for me. I was running a sober and large local friend group and my account was randomly nuked for “promoting violence”. I appealed it with the comment because it wasn’t even close to that and then my alt was banned too. Like their moderation/appeals is just three bots in a trench coat. Fuck you Spez.
So yea I think I am officially done. I have some alts but going to either close them or get them suspended during the AMA lol.
Do share which get banned lol
