- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit…::People are dissatisfied with the technology in their cars, according to a new survey from JD Power. They especially don’t like the native infotainment systems.
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Some proposed design principles:
- It’s a car.
- It’s not a goddamn TV.
- It’s not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
- It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
- Because it’s a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
- They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
- Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
- If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
- There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
- If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.
I would pay more to get a car with more buttons than you can comprehend and a small little infotainment system that allows you to play music than a super futuristic car with a iPad in the center and nothing else in the center console area.
physical buttons for the important stuff; stuff like setting interior RBG lighting color and intensity? that can go on soft buttons.
Mazda. They’ve brought back physical buttons and have support for CarPlay if you want it.
I’ve also heard they are decent cars, at this point I’ll just keep driving what I’ve got and hope that in a couple years, more manufacturers will return to making most things controllable by physical buttons.
Get a 2004-2009 car, yank the stereo out and throw an aftermarket headunit with android/carplay in. Best of both worlds!
Ugh one of our cars needs a new head unit, as its mid-2000s aftermarket unit has gone bad. But I can only get the dang thing halfway out. I can’t even get to seeing the wires in the back. No idea how it was put in, but it seems the wires are too short, maybe I have to remove the whole dashboard front thing?
2010-2012 will work as well if no tech package. My 2010 Lexus RX350 has no touchscreen, but still has knobs and a backup camera on the back mirror. It’s wonderful.
No. 9 but for media volume, touch controls are garbage and gestures are even more garbage.
Looking at you, VAG.
A special place in hell is reserved for whoever the hell keeps putting capacitive buttons on cars, ESPECIALLY when they put them on the steering wheel!
No. 9 but for media volume
Thankfully, all cars I’ve driven that had a touch screen also had some media buttons on the steering wheel. I’d prefer to have good old physical buttons in the center console, but at least you didn’t have to use the touch screen.
Buttons on the wheel are better than a touchscreen, but they suffer from being all backwards sometimes, as you use the wheel for it’s intended purpose. The old Peugeots had this thing behind the wheel, you can controll the radio with, using just 2 fingers, without looking. It’s the peak user experience. Nothing will ever beat it. I feel a suden urge to buy a beer for whoever came up with it.
French cars regularly had sometimes strange looking but often quite useful quirks.
…who tf…which car maker has gestures? If you’re gonna gesture how about you gesture your damn hand over to the button?
I think mostly VAG (VW-owned brands) and BMW, maybe Mercedes as well. VAG uses them to sense your hand approaching the touchscreen to hide additional items “when you don’t need them”, BMW uses full-on hand waving to navigate menus.
Dont worry.
They will make it all voice controlled in the future!
Fuck cars
Your kink is not my kink, but your kink is okay.
Agree… but I live in America… so there’s basically no reasonable alternative
Yeah, I hear you. I wish I had better bike infrastructure and a decent rail system in my city.
I’m a techie at heart.
But the only thing my car needs to do is act as a Bluetooth speaker/mic for my phone, and have a wireless charging mount.
When I need to use the phone for GPS/etc it goes on the mount.
When I turn on my car it connects to my phone over Bluetooth and starts playing music. Even if it’s in my pocket (shorter trips)
It works, it’s fast, it’s simple.
I’m not a big fan of too much tech in cars, I hate touchscreen climate controls, and I still drive a manual transmission; but using Android auto with maps and Spotify has been amazing. And the wireless mostly works most of the time.
I have the Motorla wireless adaptor and it would be hard to go back. Works every time. Never have to take my phone out of my pocket… only downside is it uses a moderate amount of battery, but for a 20 min commute it’s a non issue.
The irony is all these fancy head units wait until you pull out of the driveway and then throw up a big on screen warning about distracted driving. That you then have to take your eyes off the road to dismiss by pressing OK.
It would be nice if there was a spot provided for a mount that didn’t require some stupid vent clip or suction cup. A standard that would allow us to use a smartphone or tablet and maybe even leave one in the car (outside chance).
when I got my current car, it had a stupid, dumb radio with a cd deck. I installed a cheap double dim with a touch screen on it and asked if they could replace the ashtray/powersocket thing. The piece they had that fit under the cover/door had a USB hub/charging station that I could drop a stack of phones in (including one connected to carplay/android auto on the new deck.)
that was worth the $20 to install it.
That would be awesome to have as an option in my car. Instead I get to use a window suction cup or (what I chose) replace the factory radio with a double din aftermarket head unit with CarPlay. I like CarPlay but would never want to have to rely on it for things like climate control or other similar functions. As a music player and GPS I love it. I hear great things about android auto as well.
Yup. My car is old enough it has physical buttons for the enviro and stuff. The only virtual buttons control the entertainment deck itself.
I just bought a 2023 Accord and all the actual car controls are still physical. The screen shows me my rear camera and CarPlay, I control everything else with knobs and buttons. So separating the important-to-operate-without-looking controls and the touch screen isn’t quite dead yet.
I was just thinking of that the other day. They could probably get it to look pretty natural if they tried.
Good for you. I love getting in the car that is cool on a hot summers day because I activated the climate control from my phone 5 minutes before leaving or having a nice toasty warm car on a freezing winter day. I enjoy telling my car I want to go to an address I have not been at before and it navigates me there without having to press more than one button or inputting an address. I then enjoy a huge nice map both in the center cluster and a big display that shows a large map so I don’t have to squint at my relatively small phone on a mount. I enjoy telling my car what I want to listen to and it plays that music. I enjoy not putting getting my phone out of my pants pocked and into a mount. Especially for shorter rides. I also especially enjoy not having my car in for oil changes, not having to stop for gas, the car having a full “tank” every morning and other such comforts.
The car has it’s own spotify account which for me is great, because I listen to different types of music when driving compared to when I am using my phone at work or in the gym. Music services working the way they do these days it means it will suggest more great driving music when in the car and not music that is similar to what I listen to in the gym. If I want to listen to that the phone is of course connected to bluetooth and is just a input change away.
I hope you can continue enjoying your type of desired driving experience. But realize there are other perspectives. I am also a techie at home and at work ( Cloud IT-consultant, previously Systems Architecht, previously Technician ). I also do minor work such as changing headlights, filters, and 12-volt batteries myself. I know how to change oil on a car and do some simple home improvement stuff such as simple carpentry and putting in new flooring. But when I get in my car I just want it to be in the background and don’t be in the way. Just get in and go. Being in a Tesla is where I am happiest for now.
When the features are actually anti-features making you pay subscription fees for things that are already part of the car, and everything is buggy as hell, of course no one wants it.
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If you can’t figure out how to put all the extra stuff in the console as a knob or button then it probably doesn’t belong there, or isn’t wanted in the first place.
The mindless march for ever-more pointless tech in cars has pushed me into getting into classic cars more and more. Hopping into a old car is such a transformative experience. My smartphone connected through Blutooth into the stereo system is the most advanced thing in the car. The windows are huge and visibility is amazing. The ride is smooth and very forgiving. I can actually feel what the road is like because there aren’t 10 layers of computers and electronics between the steering wheel and the tires.
Nowadays, all these companies are doing is trying to use technology to solve a problem created by technology to begin with. I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines. I don’t need a sensor to remind me to look at the road, if the driving experience wasn’t so goddamn boring and devoid of fun and excitement to begin with.
I simply don’t need more shit in my cars.
I don’t need a million cameras and sensors around my car, if I have good sight-lines.
While I agree with your earlier point on more technology not always being good, I disagree on the point of sensors and cameras. A backup-camera and sensor can tell me about approaching cars that I’m not aware of/cannot see physically. Additionally, I’ll take extra reminders of cars when switching lanes at highway speeds.
Yeah exactly, tech should only be in the form of safety measures like proximity alerts, lane stabilizing if you drift, cameras, etc. It’s when they complicate basic controls like HVAC, radio, seats, mirrors, etc that pisses me off. That’s not even starting to talk about other paywalls like a subscription for heated seats or whatever; also didn’t I just read that Mercedes requires a yearly subscription if you want to fully accelerate your vehicle?
I have been unlucky enough to drive behind a person on the way home for the past 3 days who does not look when she moves to another lane. She just moves. There has been a car directly to her left, and she just fuckin slides right on over.
These are the people I want cameras and sensors for. These people out here (America) in these giant ass cars feel so protected in them they just stop caring. If we can’t get them to stop being stupid I will have to depend on technology. I don’t want to depend on technology but here we are.
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I use rental cars quite often. There’s so much garbage in newer cars. Why is there something trying to control my steering wheel, seriously who thought that was a good idea. Also nothing is tactile responsive anymore. It’s like being sold a bloat ware filled phone where you can only use garbage native apps. They made it so much more dangerous.
The Polestar by Volvo is absolutely going to convince someone to never touch an EV again. Not because of the charging, that was fine. But oh my god the interior design and the UX of their infotainment is among the worst I have ever had to tolerate. I wanted to drive the car into the ocean.
Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls
I don’t know about that. I love the navigation system from my KIA, in my opinion it’s far superior to google maps. I even can set the destination remotely via the KIA app, so I don’t need to fiddle around once I’m in the car.
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there’s one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it’s cutting costs.
Maybe they could remove the engine and gearbox with all their moving parts…
Touch screens break and wear too, and it’s more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.
Unless it happens during warranty, that costs money to the user not the manufacturer.
The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.
I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it’s only features and I’m fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.
I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
I have a 2001 VW TDi, the radio is a standard Double Din so I just replaced it with a touchscreen bluetooth receiver for around $150.
Ugh, I would kill for a small truck. I don’t need a truck I have to use a ladder to climb into with a bed that’s 4 feet long because the extended cab takes up the rest of the space. I love my 11 year old RAV4, but I would consider buying something new if small trucks actually existed anymore. Or, yeah, an electric car that wasn’t full of useless tech. I love tech, in it’s proper place, but my car is not it.
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There won’t be ANY car made that basic from this point on, though. Electric or not isn’t a factor.
In the US at least, backup cameras are required, so immediately you have a screen and a computer driving it. Adding in things like Bluetooth, gps, and phone interfaces are almost free at that point. It’s kind of like how power windows are just standard on everything too.
I sure do miss my old 2001 F150
I have a 2009 Mazda 3 with Bluetooth connectivity and steering wheel button activated voice commands to make calls, configure the phone book and connections etc. This was the sweet spot for technology in cars in my opinion. Oh but the best part is all the dials and LCD clock are all in red light which is wonderful when driving at night.
Everything else I do via voice commands on my smartphone that’s mounted on a phone mount on my dash. Like asking for GPS navigation, playing music, sending text messages.
Nowadays the car infotainment system is trying to reproduce what your smartphone already does with controls that are less intuitive.
Also, what’s the deal with all the bright white and neon blue colors lighting up everything? Can I get a red filter for night driving maybe? Is that so hard to ask?
I have the 2018 Mazda 3, and Mazda is actually still one of the better companies when it comes to the infotainment stuff. No touch screen, and the controls are in the center console, where they’re super easy to reach.
I don’t know for sure about the 3, but the CX5 and CX9 definitely have touch screens but can only be used that way when stopped. The 2018 Mazda3 smart start guide says it also works that way. My wife didn’t even realize she had a touch screen until I showed her. I had an Infiniti with touch screen and knobs and I only used the knobs, they are superior for sure.
2016 Mazda 3 does indeed have a touch screen, but not really, because like you said, can only be used when stopped. Knob control otherwise, which works fantastic.
Mazda also has some hilarious bugs in their infotainment systems. This forced people in Western Washington to the NPR station https://jalopnik.com/a-weird-radio-glitch-has-mazda-owners-stuck-listening-t-1848506850
I have a 2016 Mazda 3, and agree. I don’t want a BS touch screen. I want intuitive controls that work without me having to look at a screen. The knob control is amazing.
Yeah my 2011 BMW has Bluetooth for calls/music streaming, and a navigation system that I can split screen so I’ve got a mini map showing the names of upcoming cross streets next to my music info. It’s pretty much all I need and works great.
how much money does your car typically take to repair and how often?
What boils my blood is infotainment systems with icons and functionality for premium services that you can’t hide or remove. It wastes space and it’s just evil. I rented a Toyota Rav4 in Florida and I swear 1/4 of the front screen was for some satellite radio service that wasn’t enabled.
Blank switches in vehicles has been a thing for 50 years.
I’d say the problem is really the lack of tactile feedback. A touchscreen requires your eyes to use, while a dial with blanks just requires your touch to skip past the blanks. It’s not impossible to memorize how many services to skip past, just made worse.
I’ve never had a car with a touch screen or whatever fancy centre panel - but I have scrapped old cars because the ECU decided that there was an airbag fault which was not resolved with a new airbag. I’m a full time sysadmin/developer - my car does not need a computer to go, and if it must have one, it shouldn’t be a brick covered in epoxy.
I somewhat long to return to dumb electromechanical components like distributors, rather than unimaginably expensive, irreparable, interdependent systems.
#RightToRepair
This is exactly the reason why they do it. They can put a hidden countdown or just outright brick your vehicle over the air and you can’t really prove they did.
As a sysadmin/dev you should know its not a computers = bad situation. It’s God awful system implementation, trash software, trash components, and even worse redundancies.
It’s like you’re saying “why use email, when i can send a physical letter” in some aspects
But I agree these manufacturers produce shit products in the form of vehicle electronics.
…useless tech
Oh, it is “useful”; to the real ‘owners’ of “your” car…
Yup. I’m in Automotive, I work for a company that makes software for basically any car brand you can think of. I just recently left an internally developed project that aimed to create a personal assistant in the car. It was terribly ran and will go nowhere, but other departments in other companies will probably have more success, especially since the rise of chatgpt.
To add to your point though - the main idea on how to sell this assistant to car makers was the features, but the driving force behind developing the project was customer data. Collect a huge amount of info from customers, info that is shared with the car brand, but also accessible to us. To give some credit, discussions were never about using it for evil purposes - imagine a secretary knowing their boss’ schedule, our software would make suggestions like “you can’t make your 1 PM luch appointment with the client, would you like to reschedule it” and “I see you’re headed to Chicago and will arrive in 2 hours, should I make a reservation at that restaurant you like?” or some shit like that. But we all know that it’s not the engineers who decide what the company does with the data once access to that data exists. And knowing where a user eats, having access to their calendar, having access to their phone… This shit can get out of hand so easily when a budget-oriented executive type decides it’s time for this project to be even more profitable by selling the data to advertisers.
Last I heard before I left, the plan was to “get consent” to process this data through a disclaimer when booting the car’s infotainment system, saying that attached devices share data with our servers etc. Read the manuals, ToS and pop-ups and don’t connect your devices to systems that do this. You’re already the client when buying a car worth thousands of dollars. Don’t also be the product.
such bullshit. how can engineers not let this happen?
Why do I need a camera in the dash , focused on the driver, Toyota? (Eyes off the road for 5secs results in audio reminder to watch the road)
How long until Insurance or LE can access it?
Yaaaa, extra insurance (or none) for you! “You look away from the road too often, and you cry in your car on the way home from work. Both say you are a risk. “. Now insert your LE scenario….
Fuck everything to do with this shit!
Eyes off the road for 5secs
Nice rant, but if you do this, you really shouldn’t be driving.
5 seconds is pretty long if you think about it, but I wouldn’t like a camera pointed at my face.
I think you’re overthinking the specific number they gave rather than the general idea of quick glances away.
Just waitll it becomes mandatory, no camera no insurance. “if you’re not doing anything wrong you don’t have anything to be afraid of” they’ll tell us, as they have countless times since the Patriot Act passed.
My car is 17 years old. It won’t be long before I need to look out for a new one. Posts like these make me wary of buying a new one.
What would annoy me the most is having little to no physical buttons for trivial things, and the built in SBC to be slow as fuck. I hate lag on these systems. My wife has a smaller car with android auto and using the interface is just dreadful.
If there would be an electric car with the interior of my current car I would probably take it. It has a small chromosone display, just replace with a color one and let me control it with android auto and done.
Posts like these make you wary of buying a new one. At this point I see this so regularly though that I don’t know if the usage is even wrong given how many people use it
A lot of people use it wrong. Wary would be acceptable. Leery would be acceptable as well. Both mean cautious or suspicious. Weary equates to tired and doesn’t fit the context.
It’s still wrong… Don’t let the “language evolves” people convince you otherwise.
Buying a car should be a fun experience. Book a few testdrives and try to enjoy the experience. When looking for a new car there has always been several I disliked, but I always found one or two that felt comfortable in.
I have always seen the new car buying experience to be something to get excited about… except now. I am at the early stages of looking at what I want to replace my dairy driver with and like NOTHING is really calling to me. At this stage in the past, I would have already driven a couple of cars simply to take them off my shopping list or keep them on, and I haven’t bothered to test drive a single car yet.
What have you tried driving so far?
I think if you shop around you can get the kind of interface you want. I got a 2021 Subaru and they had just switched back to more actual buttons and knobs because people didn’t like the capacitive buttons and touchscreen. In my car it has a touchscreen for CarPlay so basically just maps and music and everything else is a knob or physical button. Things may have changed since too so ymmv. Good luck
Your comment about Subaru is not true across the board. I have a 2023 Ascent that has very limited physical buttons. The same infotainment system and setup is now on the Outback as well.
Man, just wait until Mercedez and BMW get away with paywalling features like heating, seat adjustments and fucking max speed. Then you’ll see satisfaction take a dive, to the surprise of no-fucking-one
But,… but!.. oh, fuck them.
