OP put the crack pipe down.
Ok it isn’t that easy to get the ai do what you want. So being good at writing prompts is indeed a skill. But it is not an art skill. I mean I can get a similar result by just bullshiting words at the ai. If I draw sth. By myself it’s is shitty and takes days. So well I appreciate the tool but I wouldn’t call anyone an artist who uses ai without any corrections. If you edit it so it looks better maybe you are an artist. Idk
I think AI art is comparable to photography. Photographers do a lot of work behind the scenes to get everything set up, the equipment, lighting, angles, lenses, etc, But at the end of the day, the only action they’re taking to capture the art is they press a button, it’s not nearly the same amount of work that a painter or a musician puts into their art. So I think the idea of “capturing” art is still a valid thing. Sometimes a photographer can capture an award-winning masterpiece with a spur-of-the-moment photo on some shitty disposable camera. Maybe it took them 1000 bad photos to get that one photo, but they still just captured it from somewhere else, they didn’t create the work.
Similarly with AI, a person may have to work with the AI software to setup and craft the prompt that will eventually generate the art, then there may be dozens of iterations of that and fine-tuning to get the result they’re imagining, and even after that there may be some photoshopping involved to get it to where they want it. They’re capturing artwork from a source that may not be their own creation, just the same as photographers. I think AI art is just as legitimate as other forms of art, it’s just open to a wider range of people that can participate because many of the physical hurdles (equipment, space, time, lighting, etc) are not as much of an issue.
I think what you’re describing is more like 3d rendering.
IMO using AI is more like directing in a film. You’re not the one creating the art, and the level of control you have is restricted to providing guidance and retrying.
So would you say film direction is not an art form?
I’d say it’s a grey area, like AI prompting
You’re not the one implementing the final result, you’re just providing guidance to other(s) who produce the final piece of art.If there is artistry in that, it seems like it’d apply equally to directing as it does to prompt engineering.
You can recognize the style of good film directors. I think it is certainly an art.
I don’t necessarily disagree.
The style of a director is the common set of guidance that they provide to the artists who do the work of making the film (eg the actors, the grips, the editors, the lighting, the markup, etc).
Likewise someone who uses AI to make art can have common things they seek in all the AI images they generate. Common things they include in their prompts to push the images to appear in a particular way.They’re not the same but there is enough commonality that criticism of one mostly applies to the other.
Therefore, AI art is art. Whether it is ethical is another story.
AI art can be art, anything can be art. But I would say I don’t consider most AI images to be art.
But the ethics of AI is a far more important discussion.
Agreed, the process is very non-artistic. There are too many layers that remove the creator from the process of creating. It’s more of a science than an art, and unsurprisingly an artistic spirit is usually lacking from it.
The results are better when in the hands of artists, but many artists don’t enjoy using the tools because they are so removed from an artistic work flow and are such a black box most of the time. It’s not artistically fulfilling to press a button and see what comes out.
Just my 2 cents as an artist who has experimented with the tools quite a bit and still doesn’t love them.
I like this take.
How far can the artist be removed from the art, and still be considered the artist?
And is it even important to ask “is this art” if art is inherently subjective? It’s probably more important to ask “who is this helping?”I have a pretty wide definition of art, so I hesitate to say it can’t be art flippantly. I do think that for something to be art it must contain the voice of the artist, though, and for many AI generations I don’t think you can see that voice, even if a lot of work went into creating it. Maybe that will change as the tools become more sophisticated and easier to get what you want out of them.
I agree but I don’t think that has to do with AI necessarily. There are people who create images without soul, no matter the medium and tools used.
I think that people who make soulless art are just drawn to AI generators because it allows them to make something aesthetically passable without hours and years of tedious practice (which they otherwise wouldn’t be willing to do since they obviously have no care for the art).
But at the end of the day, the only action they’re taking to capture the art is they press a button.
Wut? Are you serious? You’re just going to boil down an entire artform to that? That’s an unbelievably reductive opinion.
Anyone can take a photo, sure but making art via photography is incredibly complex. I’m not a photographer at all and even I can understand that. It’s the photographer’s tastes and years of learning and practice that ultimately creates an impactful photo. You must think playing drums is just hitting tubes with plastic lids with sticks then, right?
I struggle to believe that you have put any thought into this opinion of yours.
Anyone can take a photo, sure but making art via photography is incredibly complex.
I think that’s exactly the point. Anyone can use AI, but that doesn’t make then all artists. But there is a place for AI in art, like many other tools. Same as for other tools, jusy knowing how to use them doesn’t make you an artist. Just look at all the bad Photoshop stuff everywhere. Does that mean that using Photoshop makes you a talentless hack? Or just that a lot of hacks use it to pretend they’re artists? Same for AI.
Wut? Are you serious? You’re just going to boil down an entire artform to that? That’s an unbelievably reductive opinion.
This statement can also accurately describe those who say ai art isn’t art.
Wut? Are you serious? You’re just going to boil down an entire artform to that? That’s an unbelievably reductive opinion.
That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? People might spend a lot of time learning the different AI tools, how to supplement them with post processing and manual edits, how to combine them and how to nudge them in the direction they want, and then spend countless evenings trying to get the result they want. And people are going to say “they just AI generated it, they are not artists”, just like people might say photographers are not artists, they just take a photo.
But we know it’s far from “just” taking a photo or “just” generating it with AI. Sure, you can “just” do both, but the result will be far from real art without all the preparation and extra work.
But it’s easy to take a random shitty AI image to laught at, just like it’s easy to take a random shitty photo.
Photography is capturing something real in the physical world. Even if the action can be boiled down to “push a button” the photographer needs to have at least some presence where the real event is taking place.
AI art is not a depiction of a real event and requires no physical presence. It’s also not being brought to life by the person taking credit for it. That’s not to say AI generated images can’t be cool or useful but I don’t think they are art. If your definition of art is loose enough to apply to AI generated images then the I think the artist credit should belong to the AI itself or the team that wrote the software, not the person typing in prompts.
I think, where the real conflict comes from, is that most traditional artists are passionate about their craft and need to be able to sell their commodity art. Most people are empathetic of that and therefore not a fan of other commodity art competing with these passionate artists.
Photography was also controversial when it first appeared, because it meant traditional artists could hardly sell portraits and realistic paintings anymore.
I think, it also took a while for people to learn of and believe that some people are actually genuinely passionate about photography, too.And well, AI is now the new thing, but it’s also kind of worse. Because it’s not just certain kinds of paintings that are affected, they’ve literally been trained to replace all commodity art.
And they’re stealing off of those traditional artists (someone snapping a photograph of the Mona Lisa and trying to sell it as art will also get heckled).
And it’s going to be hard to convince people that typing words into a box is something to be passionate about.It’s a tool in a box. Maybe an artist can use it get some inspiration and not actually use any of the generated images. Or generate a backdrop for their portrait drawing. Or generate a composition they like and then draw over it.
AI “art” is theft. Doesn’t matter how much time they spend setting up the perfect prompt. It’s not their viewpoint. It’s not their aesthetic or style. They made no decision to go one direction or another. It’s an aggregate of someone ( or many someones) else’s work.
It’s sad to see so many people saying that AI generated pictures are art. At the end of the day, if you don’t get why art is important, you don’t get it. Gonna be hard to explain to Elon’s fans why the human aspect of art matters, so why bother?
I respectfully disagree with you saying ai generated images are not art, it is “a form” of art, and saying so doesn’t equate to saying art is unimportant or that the human aspect doesn’t matter. Art is important, the human aspect does matter a great deal. Art is about ideas and means to express them, AI-gen does allow it in different ways than previously but right now you still have a sentient being with an idea to prompt the AI.
What you are saying looks a lot like what people used to say about photography not being art, and fear mongering about photography replacing other forms of art like painting. The opposite happened, photography shaped into its own form of art, and painting evolved to new era of amazing ideas.
Exactly! It’s a new kind of canvass that just has a few crappy brushes, and while far too many people are just copying existing art with extra steps, eventually we’ll make better brushes and new paints and explore the possibilities for real.
Them fingers look like toes
omg, you’re right! The “hand” on the left looks like a foot.
I’m all jelly of his multi-layered shark teeth. What a way to save a lot of money and stress.
Of all the unsettling nonsense here, those teeth are just horrifying. Although the toe-fingers are a close second.
OP when someone has fun playing around with AI generators, and wants to share the nicer looking results they got:
That’s fine, but ai “artists” act like their prompts(and even the images they didn’t do shit to make) are things they put their heart and soul into and get so mad that they have any people calling them out
Personally I haven’t seen any of that, just a lot of people butthurt (or scared for their livelyhood) that others can now make pictures with little effort.
Also some of these generated pics are the result of hundreds of trial-and-error attempts changing up the dozens of parameters and running multiple pieces of software in sequence to get the AI to spit out the wanted result.
The “Anti-AI” crowd tends to be completely ignorant on how this stuff actually works.
And some people have turned this AI stuff into their hobby, so they get defensive when you shit on them (“calling them out” as you word it)
It’s fine to have AI stuff as a hobby but I’m sorry; AI generated art has no business in an art gallery with human art.
Rent/host your own spaces, open your own galleries, hold your own events. No one is saying that people can’t engage with AI art. What they’re saying is that the effort to legitimize AI art as an equal to human art is incredibly damaging and cancerous.
It’s like asking someone to make you a sandwich and then stipulating what you want on the sandwich then, once the sandwich is on a plate in front of you, you proudly exclaim “Wow, I’m quite the chef, aren’t I?”
The sandwich maker in this case is just not a person, it’s a computer.
Looking at it a different way, that would be like a photographer taking a photo of the sandwich and proclaiming “I’m an artist” or a director telling a chef what to make, telling a cinematographer/camera operator how to shoot it, and an editor how to cut it to create a short film of a sandwich and proclaiming “I’m an artist”. Art can be made from a series of creative and purposeful decisions that result in a piece of expression. It might not be good art, it might not be effortful art, it might even be unethically made art, but it’s not not-art.
I compare it to commissioning a piece and then bragging about how much effort you put into it. But that’s also a really good analogy
The parallels to film directing are uncanny. Idk why people consider that an art either. Not sarcasm, film directing isn’t art for the exact same reason AI images aren’t art.
That would also make a corporate exec meddling with the production to meet their expectations as artists…
Yup. That’s why I’m skeptical of directors are artists.
Or, more accurately, I don’t think you can get a clear black and white answer about if someone is an artist or something is art.
It’s probably more like a grey area, a sliding scale.I think we’re looking at this question wrong anyways. Anything can be art, this is just a tool and in the hands of an artist it will contribute to the creation of art.
The question is: is this a net benefit for society? Is it helping new/hidden artists create art that they otherwise couldn’t? Or is it making the life of the artist harder by fucking up the job market? Both?
“This artform that I don’t have a hope in hell of ever understanding is invalid… because I say so.”
Better stop watching movies and tv and only ever go to your local playhouse for entertainment.
All your criticisms here you could level at AI image/video generation too. Doubly so since art is subjective.
Still more “art” to it than most of modern “art” 😁
This statement is objectively wrong.
Technically, the impressionist and surrealist movements are modern art. But I bet you marvel at Monet’s pieces
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I kinda feel the same at times with 3d printing. I can make you rare parts or plastic piece for an appliance from scratch with my hands. I can make you a cosplay suit of armor from scratch out of foam and it’ll end up looking like iron man armour. Then a guy does the same thing in a printer and goes to me “I made this on my own” and I stare at him.
I kinda get you, but ultimately the design of the printed materials had to be created by someone. Creation is the key in all of this.
In this comparison, ideally that creator is the person printing the materials. There’s a disconnect if someone just downloaded the CAD files and printed it up then claimed 100% ownership of the creation credit.
I don’t see anything wrong with someone designing all the pieces in CAD, which is an artform in itself IMO, printing them and proudly wearing them. Its just a different tool. You use hand tools, they used digital tools.
there’s also operating the machine. for some prints I’d argue actually getting the printer to print it is a bigger achievement than creating the design itself.
It’s because you don’t understand their vision – classic idea guy redux
This is a pretty complex topic, as a quick knee jerk I agree AI art isn’t art in the common sense, but one thing I disagree with is that all art has intent or even needs it.
I don’t think AI art is going to or even tries to replace art as a creative pursuit. If anything it’s more likely to replace certain photography related jobs.
Currently the main use cases are
- Generating stock photos
- Generating texture maps
- Generating concept art
None of these things really care about intent, you could argue concept art does, but a lot of the time it’s just there to set a vibe/direction/theme. All of the above will still replace jobs but not the typical everyday artists jobs, maybe stock or texture photographers though.
Almost as bad as a banana taped to the wall.
Watching “Artists” bitch about AI has been one of the more fun parts of the 2020’s
I’d love to see you do anything even remotely close to what an artist can do without using AI. But since you probably can’t do anything better than stick figures… Let’s face it people deserve to get paid for their fucking work. It doesn’t matter whether they’re throwing boxes in a warehouse, shuffling papers in an accounting firm, or doing art on the internet.
Watching people like you ruin the reputation of generative AI has been one of the more fun parts of the 2020’s
