These will be useless for EV’s, but great for storage. They aren’t energy dense enough for what the EV market needs.
Samsungs solid state EV batteries are currently the only positive step towards EV replacement and production vehicles are set to start rolling out around 2027. They’re supposed to be lighter, last more cycles, charge faster, more energy dense, and safer than current EV liquid lithium batteries.
The sodium ion batteries will be great for large scale solar storage and house/business solar storage. They should let someone build a solar powered house that could continuously run completely off grid without needing to use lithium batteries that would need replaced every 10 to 15 years.
Why not? From what I’ve seen, they’re about 75% as energy dense as lithium, and a lot cheaper. So if the Chevy Bolt gets 200-250 miles range on lithium batteries, I’d expect 150+ miles w/ sodium-ion, which is plenty for my commute. If the battery costs half as much and lasts 5-10 years, I’d buy that to replace my commuter in a heartbeat. Give me a commuter at $15-20k w/ 150 miles range and I’ll buy.
these batteries are a lot cheaper, and a lot more cycle resistant, which is what you primarily do for stationary storage, i think they’re probably safer as well?
It would make some EVs cheaper, but they would have less range, and it’s probably a little redundant considering you could just use less lithium ion batts instead.
Like the commenter said, we should be focusing on the solid state batts that samsung is fucking with, those are have REAL potential to be significantly better for EVs.
A solid state battery would likely be able to replace my family car, but I don’t need that for a commuter, I just need the battery to be cheaply replaceable and enough range to get to work and back. I think we should be looking at both options.
i mean sure, personally i doubt it’ll happen, im assuming they’re focusing on developing better battery tech first and foremost, though im guessing sodium ions would probably make their way into EVs eventually.
They already are… in China. I’m saying we should do that here in the US. We have the battery plant, so let’s put them in some inexpensive cars to replace commuters.
i dont think we’ve even broken ground on a sodium ion plant let alone making and production testing batteries for the market to begin with. I’ve got nothing aginst it, and EV manufacturers are probably going to do it, but whatever
Also you can buy a used prius for pretty cheap? The batteries aren’t that expensive to replace if they go bad/are bad.
Yup, and I currently drive a Prius. I’m looking at used Bolts ($13-15k used), but I’m a little worried about fire risk (it’ll be parked in my attached garage) and battery repair is going to be super expensive. A new sodium ion EV that’s much cheaper (say, $15-20k) would be attractive, but I’m definitely not paying >$30k for a commuter.
yeah idk personally i feel like i would just live with the prius until i could get my hands on something truly more accessible to the market, which is inevitable at this rate.
current lithium batts are a submersion layer stacking inside of an electrolyte, solid state removes the electrolyte for a “dry” approach, which is in this case, solid state. I’m guessing it’s referring to the movement of ions (is that the right term?) through the electrolyte, which is a mechanical process (technically) but i don’t know fuck about battery chemistry so dont quote me.
If they also see a lower price, they’ll be more interested.
And this doesn’t need to appeal to every car buyer, there’s a market for budget-friendly cars with a narrow use-case. 150 miles is plenty for a second car, and would probably not appeal to people looking for a primary car, whereas 250 miles kind of bridges that gap. Segment the market and it should do well.
These will be useless for EV’s, but great for storage. They aren’t energy dense enough for what the EV market needs.
Samsungs solid state EV batteries are currently the only positive step towards EV replacement and production vehicles are set to start rolling out around 2027. They’re supposed to be lighter, last more cycles, charge faster, more energy dense, and safer than current EV liquid lithium batteries.
The sodium ion batteries will be great for large scale solar storage and house/business solar storage. They should let someone build a solar powered house that could continuously run completely off grid without needing to use lithium batteries that would need replaced every 10 to 15 years.
I can’t remember the name but I’m pretty sure some Chinese EV manufacturer has started to make EVs with salt batteries already.
BYD. Seagull or the seal. Can’t remember which one.
they’re used in busses afaik. Which makes sense.
Why not? From what I’ve seen, they’re about 75% as energy dense as lithium, and a lot cheaper. So if the Chevy Bolt gets 200-250 miles range on lithium batteries, I’d expect 150+ miles w/ sodium-ion, which is plenty for my commute. If the battery costs half as much and lasts 5-10 years, I’d buy that to replace my commuter in a heartbeat. Give me a commuter at $15-20k w/ 150 miles range and I’ll buy.
these batteries are a lot cheaper, and a lot more cycle resistant, which is what you primarily do for stationary storage, i think they’re probably safer as well?
It would make some EVs cheaper, but they would have less range, and it’s probably a little redundant considering you could just use less lithium ion batts instead.
Like the commenter said, we should be focusing on the solid state batts that samsung is fucking with, those are have REAL potential to be significantly better for EVs.
A solid state battery would likely be able to replace my family car, but I don’t need that for a commuter, I just need the battery to be cheaply replaceable and enough range to get to work and back. I think we should be looking at both options.
i mean sure, personally i doubt it’ll happen, im assuming they’re focusing on developing better battery tech first and foremost, though im guessing sodium ions would probably make their way into EVs eventually.
They already are… in China. I’m saying we should do that here in the US. We have the battery plant, so let’s put them in some inexpensive cars to replace commuters.
i dont think we’ve even broken ground on a sodium ion plant let alone making and production testing batteries for the market to begin with. I’ve got nothing aginst it, and EV manufacturers are probably going to do it, but whatever
Also you can buy a used prius for pretty cheap? The batteries aren’t that expensive to replace if they go bad/are bad.
Yup, and I currently drive a Prius. I’m looking at used Bolts ($13-15k used), but I’m a little worried about fire risk (it’ll be parked in my attached garage) and battery repair is going to be super expensive. A new sodium ion EV that’s much cheaper (say, $15-20k) would be attractive, but I’m definitely not paying >$30k for a commuter.
yeah idk personally i feel like i would just live with the prius until i could get my hands on something truly more accessible to the market, which is inevitable at this rate.
How can a battery be solid state, I don’t understand what that means in this context.
You basically replace the liquid electrolyte with a solid one. Wikipedia article about it.
Here’s an article about Samsung’s battery, and I’m sure we’ll hear a lot more about them in the coming years.
current lithium batts are a submersion layer stacking inside of an electrolyte, solid state removes the electrolyte for a “dry” approach, which is in this case, solid state. I’m guessing it’s referring to the movement of ions (is that the right term?) through the electrolyte, which is a mechanical process (technically) but i don’t know fuck about battery chemistry so dont quote me.
Explain that to the average car buyer who sees the lower number and rules it out.
If they also see a lower price, they’ll be more interested.
And this doesn’t need to appeal to every car buyer, there’s a market for budget-friendly cars with a narrow use-case. 150 miles is plenty for a second car, and would probably not appeal to people looking for a primary car, whereas 250 miles kind of bridges that gap. Segment the market and it should do well.
These would also make bank as fleet vehicles for local deliveries or shuttle services.
Lower price and longer life.
50,000 complete cycles. That’s 136 years of complete empty to complete full. Most of these will outlast their mounting hardware.
Sure. Drop them in budget cars, and when the cars are ready to EOL, move the batteries to energy storage.
Yep. And decommissioning time? The sodium is all recyclable without major effort, and the Prussian Blue analogs can be discarded.
or you could also just, make a hybrid, which solves all of the problems, though it’s a little more complex.
It’s a lot more complex, and would drive up the price a lot. A simple EV with limited range has a lot of value for cases that only need short range.
i guess so but whats your argument for not just buying an older used prius instead
That’s what I currently drive. It would be nice to never have to fill up gas again.