Edit: lotta downvotes from men claiming to be leftists but bury their head in the sand when it’s ever mentioned that violence, especially murder against women, is mostly committed by men. If your solidarity abruptly halts at issues like this and you call yourself a leftists, you’re only kidding yourself and other sexist men.
Thanks for confirming beyond a doubt that Lemmy is just another “leftist” spaced filled with sexist men. Gross and so disappointing.
Someone needs to learn that “strawberries are fruits, therefore all fruits are strawberries” is idiotic ‘logic’.
Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women. Yet I have a feeling you’d magically understand the logical flaw in pointing to those instances and saying “what’s wrong with women?”, wouldn’t you? Maybe something to do with the fact that the vast majority of women don’t do that?
It’s only your misandry that prevents you from identifying the exact same illogic directed at the demographic you’re bigoted toward.
Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women.
Is this article about a newborn being killed? Or is it about a woman being killed by her partner? If it’s the latter, how often are women killed by their men compared to men being killed by women? If it’s the latter, why are you bringing up points relevant to the former? Please, please, please answer these questions. You’re engaging in the very logical fallacy you’re citing.
If this were a discussion about a black man being killed by a white police officer, would it make any sense to bring up stats about black men killing white police officers? Because that’s pretty much what you’re doing right now in an attempt to deflect from the main issue. I often see white supremacists in conservative spaces doing this, i.e. mentioning George Floyd’s criminal record or irrelevant stats about crime by black men to deflect from Derek Chauvin murdering him, and I think what you’re saying is fundamentally no different-- just with women/sexism instead of black men/racism.
Edit: Nevermind, just blocked ya. You’re the same clown that said this about women who fear being killed in the USA:
A completely irrational fear in the US at least, given that in a country of 340,000,000, less than 5,000 women are murdered a year. And that’s even if you pretended every single murder was by a rejected man.
Stop letting ideological propaganda make you paranoid.
Fuck off, you hate women and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
I understand the point that person’s trying to make-- can they, or you, understand the counterpoint I’ve made? I swear, men will do the most impressive mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that most violence against women is committed against men. It’s so pathetic.
Is the concept of an analogy really so far beyond you? Do you not understand my simple point that it would be completely unfair to point the finger at the entirety of the female sex and say “hey you, stop killing your babies”, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
And that therefore one might consider that it’s equally unfair to point the finger at the male sex, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
This is not exactly cryptic, you know.
You’re the same clown that said [that it’s irrational to live life in fear of an event that has a 0.00147% of occurring]
I did say that. Stating simple facts is not exactly what clowns do, though, you seem a bit confused.
Fuck off, you hate women
No, I hate fear-mongering used to manipulate, in all cases. In this case, it’s feminist fear-mongering that tries to deceive women into thinking that murderous men are always all around them, waiting to strike the moment their guard is down.
Hate it just as much as sensationalized media that deceives the public into thinking the violent crime rate is much higher than it actually is. Just to give one sex-neutral example of the exact same phenomenon.
You could say I hate manipulation via deception in general.
and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
This is straight-up projection–you can’t gaslight someone with facts, lol.
Holy shit. I cannot help but laugh at the absurdity of this. Guy made a perfect example on why your viewpoint is insane, and it went so far over your head.
Not sure what this reference is demonstrating in the context of domestic violence.
That reference says
77% of which involved male victims and 23% female victims
So it is about killing in general not domestic violence
Men kill more and are killed more. This is not a secret and not exactly demonstrating that men are wrong, just that some “industries” (e.g. organised crime) are men only clubs (not sure if this is a demonstration of anything about how good or bad men are).
I’m going to bed but there’s countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.
Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I’m not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I’m saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don’t hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either “jokingly” or dead serious, or that we don’t see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don’t think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!
Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we’ve got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it’s not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism… Nope.
Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
A personal anecdotes is that I’m no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn’t attend his funeral.
My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like “them n-words down the road are fucking up this town”) and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he’s fucking dead. Now I don’t have a family of origin because I wouldn’t pretend he was a good person.
Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It’s hard. You get told to “mind your business” or "it’s just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole “but they’re family” thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that’s what it comes down to, and they’ll make it feel like you’re the one who’s in the wrong the whole time.
Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don’t call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
Hundreds of thousands of women are killed each year, poisoned by their doctors. this article is old but nothing has changed. is this misogyny? i thought most doctors these days are women.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25355584/
It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.
What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?
This is some “all black people know each other” kind of stupid.
This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it
Why exactly, should having a chromosome in common with a violent criminal make preventing their crime more that person’s responsibility than anyone else’s?
The crimes of men are not ‘owned’ by men. The crimes of women are not ‘owned’ by women. Crime is a societal ill that society collectively is responsible for preventing/catching/etc., to the best of its ability.
Don’t imagine you’d be good with a girl being physically abused by her mother reporting it to a male authority figure and being told ‘sorry, women gotta take ownership over this problem and solve it, it’s not men’s problem’, would you?
Think for a moment and realize how bigoted this line of thinking actually is.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you’re not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
Don’t mention that among the three primary ‘sex pairings’ of romantic relationships (m/f, m/m, f/f), the one with the highest incidence of domestic violence is f/f, or their head might just explode, lol…
Since i was a boy, i enjoyed the public library but i never understood why they always had loads of “romance novels” in a special section that only women frequented. when i was older it occurred to me to take a closer look and i was appalled. all women are disgusting. /s
This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There’s a reason why you’re deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you’d rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".
It’s so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I’m just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there’s so little diversity. ✌🏾
men*
Edit: lotta downvotes from men claiming to be leftists but bury their head in the sand when it’s ever mentioned that violence, especially murder against women, is mostly committed by men. If your solidarity abruptly halts at issues like this and you call yourself a leftists, you’re only kidding yourself and other sexist men.
Thanks for confirming beyond a doubt that Lemmy is just another “leftist” spaced filled with sexist men. Gross and so disappointing.
Someone needs to learn that “strawberries are fruits, therefore all fruits are strawberries” is idiotic ‘logic’.
Basically 100% of parents who have killed their newborns by throwing them in dumpsters are women. Yet I have a feeling you’d magically understand the logical flaw in pointing to those instances and saying “what’s wrong with women?”, wouldn’t you? Maybe something to do with the fact that the vast majority of women don’t do that?
It’s only your misandry that prevents you from identifying the exact same illogic directed at the demographic you’re bigoted toward.
Is this article about a newborn being killed? Or is it about a woman being killed by her partner? If it’s the latter, how often are women killed by their men compared to men being killed by women? If it’s the latter, why are you bringing up points relevant to the former? Please, please, please answer these questions. You’re engaging in the very logical fallacy you’re citing.
If this were a discussion about a black man being killed by a white police officer, would it make any sense to bring up stats about black men killing white police officers? Because that’s pretty much what you’re doing right now in an attempt to deflect from the main issue. I often see white supremacists in conservative spaces doing this, i.e. mentioning George Floyd’s criminal record or irrelevant stats about crime by black men to deflect from Derek Chauvin murdering him, and I think what you’re saying is fundamentally no different-- just with women/sexism instead of black men/racism.
Edit: Nevermind, just blocked ya. You’re the same clown that said this about women who fear being killed in the USA:
Fuck off, you hate women and you’re trying desperately to gaslight them.
No. The illustrative example was about newborn getting killed. Try to understand the point OP is making SMH.
I understand the point that person’s trying to make-- can they, or you, understand the counterpoint I’ve made? I swear, men will do the most impressive mental gymnastics to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that most violence against women is committed against men. It’s so pathetic.
I’ll leave that one for you and Freud to figure out.
…one question, though: When you say “violence”, do you mean psychological, physical, or both?
Is the concept of an analogy really so far beyond you? Do you not understand my simple point that it would be completely unfair to point the finger at the entirety of the female sex and say “hey you, stop killing your babies”, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
And that therefore one might consider that it’s equally unfair to point the finger at the male sex, based on a crime that a tiny percentage of them commit?
This is not exactly cryptic, you know.
I did say that. Stating simple facts is not exactly what clowns do, though, you seem a bit confused.
No, I hate fear-mongering used to manipulate, in all cases. In this case, it’s feminist fear-mongering that tries to deceive women into thinking that murderous men are always all around them, waiting to strike the moment their guard is down.
Hate it just as much as sensationalized media that deceives the public into thinking the violent crime rate is much higher than it actually is. Just to give one sex-neutral example of the exact same phenomenon.
You could say I hate manipulation via deception in general.
This is straight-up projection–you can’t gaslight someone with facts, lol.
Holy shit. I cannot help but laugh at the absurdity of this. Guy made a perfect example on why your viewpoint is insane, and it went so far over your head.
Yeah, it’s because he was a man and not a horrible human. Gotcha.
Why respond in bad faith like this? You’re clearly playing dumb.
Pot, kettle…
Would you please provide data supporting this stance?
Already did in another comment in this thread, take a look. Cited with the link to the paper.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1635092/ <— by all means, look up similar studies done in more recent years and you’ll find the same fundamental patterns.
Not sure what this reference is demonstrating in the context of domestic violence.
That reference says
So it is about killing in general not domestic violence
Men kill more and are killed more. This is not a secret and not exactly demonstrating that men are wrong, just that some “industries” (e.g. organised crime) are men only clubs (not sure if this is a demonstration of anything about how good or bad men are).
Do you have a reference specific to this topic?
Peace. Don’t associate with men. We will all be happier the fewer people you associate with.
No.
The vast majority of the time a woman is murdered, it’s at the hands of a man. Yes.
I’m going to bed but there’s countless other studies that show the same trend not just in the USA but in countries across the world. This paper was published in '92 and for those who doubt its legitimacy based on its age, I recommend looking up modern papers on this.
Edit: One last thing before I go to sleep. I’m not making these comments because I want to make men feel bad, or that I think the average guy on Lemmy reading this is a murderer or potential murdered. I’m saying this because as men, we need to cut the bullshit and stop acting like we don’t hear other men casually talk about domestic violence, either “jokingly” or dead serious, or that we don’t see other men engaging in verbal or physical abuse against women. As a POC, I feel pretty much the same way about racism-- I don’t think the average white person is some KKK member but please for the love of god white folks, if you hear someone (especially your friends/family) saying/doing some racist shit, call it out!
Lotta downvotes but no responses to the study I provided. Not at all surprised. Until men are willing to simply acknowledge the existence of this problem, we’ve got a long way to go. Leftists on Lemmy definitely showing their true colors and it’s not surprising, so many leftist spaces get ruined by sexist men who want a safe space where they can discuss racism, transphobia, homophobia but sexism… Nope.
Dude, I 100% get what your saying.
Unfortunately what your asking of people requires personal sacrifice, and people will mentally go all over the place to resist that.
A personal anecdotes is that I’m no longer in contact with my family because I refused to see my racist grandfather on his deathbed and didn’t attend his funeral.
My grandfather was an abusive, literal stereotype of a racist(would say things like “them n-words down the road are fucking up this town”) and a raging alcoholic. The world is better because he’s fucking dead. Now I don’t have a family of origin because I wouldn’t pretend he was a good person.
Men will lose friends and family if they start calling this shit out. It’s hard. You get told to “mind your business” or "it’s just a joke " or get your masculinity questioned. Or the whole “but they’re family” thing. I get why people resist it. No one wants to lose their social support, but often that’s what it comes down to, and they’ll make it feel like you’re the one who’s in the wrong the whole time.
Social pressure is a hell of a thing. I think framing the context around why men don’t call this stuff out will help them recognize why they should.
Hundreds of thousands of women are killed each year, poisoned by their doctors. this article is old but nothing has changed. is this misogyny? i thought most doctors these days are women. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25355584/
It’s insane you’re getting this downvoted. Domestic violence from men against women is a massive global issue, and putting your hands over your ears and saying “ well I’m not the problem” is not doing anything. This problem will never get solved until men take ownership over it and stop it.
What does this even mean? What fraction of men do you presume are abusers for one, and for two, are you assuming every man knows every other man and we just bulk regulate?
This is some “all black people know each other” kind of stupid.
Why exactly, should having a chromosome in common with a violent criminal make preventing their crime more that person’s responsibility than anyone else’s?
The crimes of men are not ‘owned’ by men. The crimes of women are not ‘owned’ by women. Crime is a societal ill that society collectively is responsible for preventing/catching/etc., to the best of its ability.
Don’t imagine you’d be good with a girl being physically abused by her mother reporting it to a male authority figure and being told ‘sorry, women gotta take ownership over this problem and solve it, it’s not men’s problem’, would you?
Think for a moment and realize how bigoted this line of thinking actually is.
Domestic violence is a global issue. But you’re not helping anyone by further pushing a stereotype and ignoring the problem. Do you think only cis men are capable of domestic violence? Because such a though would be bigoted in a few different ways to be honest.
Are we talking about what’s possible or what is likely?
Here I’ll answer both:
Bonus: men are far more likely to be a victim of violence than a woman. Men also should be cautious around strange new men!
That stat is entirely reductive and meaningless. And two of your answers are sexist. Not that I think you give a shit.
Don’t mention that among the three primary ‘sex pairings’ of romantic relationships (m/f, m/m, f/f), the one with the highest incidence of domestic violence is f/f, or their head might just explode, lol…
Oh boohoo did those mean men downvote you? Just another reason to mandate isolation of genders.
Since i was a boy, i enjoyed the public library but i never understood why they always had loads of “romance novels” in a special section that only women frequented. when i was older it occurred to me to take a closer look and i was appalled. all women are disgusting. /s
Really having a hard time addressing the topic at hand, aren’t you?
Check my other comment.
Oh stfu. And we could bring up a million other things that are committed mostly by women and you wouldn’t say a fucking thing.
This is a discussion about a woman who was murdered, so why on earth would you bring up irrelevant stats? There’s a reason why you’re deflecting. Your only contribution to this discussion is a comment telling me to "stfu" because you’d rather deflect than confront sexism. The older I get, the less surprised I am to see not so low-key sexism in leftist spaces. You could have made any kind of comment in this thread and all you decided on was "bUt wHat aBoUT [irrelevant subject]".
It’s so disappointing, frustrating and downright exhausting. I fully expect this kind of rhetoric from conservatives and liberals but it just sucks to hear it in leftist spaces by people who claim to be allies to marginalized people. I honestly think I’m just going to take a break from online spaces like Lemmy and stick to my one community that just happens to be created/lead by a woman. Shit like this is why so many leftist websites and local clubs just turn into a hangout for mostly white guys cluelessly wondering why there’s so little diversity. ✌🏾
All you do is cry and complain into the void instead of empowering yourself and others.
I felt empowered.