Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to “dismantle western propaganda” and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
Because “critical of western propaganda” is a front for promoting authorianism and intolerance. The “western propaganda” they’re critical of include human rights, inclusiveness, social security etc.
Every fucking “social security” that exists in the western world was achieved by those of us that wave the red flag ffs. 5 day week? Socialists. Most of your holidays? Socialists. Worker protections? Socialists. The length of your work day? Socialists. Healthcare? Socialists. Eliminating child labour? Socialists. The list goes on and on and on.
And inclusiveness? How the fuck do you work out that the only lemmy that has visible pronouns is not inclusive? 20-30% of the userbase is trans ffs. It’s MORE inclusive that this instance which has left transphobic and hateful posts up for many hours at a time on occasion. The post that looked like a relic from r/fatpeoplehate was up for 12 hours before it got taken down.
A prominent example you left out: American politicians and the billionaire-owned media don’t like when someone brings it up, but the man who more than anyone else has been hailed by the establishment as the embodiment of peaceful struggle for civil rights, Martin Luther King Jr, was a pro-union socialist and would have been as disgusted by the neoliberal hypocrites in charge of the Dems as the blatant racists of the far right
There’s a user down in the comments with a history of transphobic garbage bragging about not having been banned yet. Liberal inclusivity.
ffs
Try again boot licker. Literally a 5 minute google search disproves all your commie propaganda bullshit.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workweek_and_weekend https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_state
As for public holidays, each country has there own. In the west most of them are either national days of recognition or religious in nature.
Which union movements led to the implementation of those policies and who were the prominent leaders of the unions in those movements? Maybe look into whose blood was spilled in the streets fighting for it too.
Linking to a wikipedia page and vaguely gesturing is functionally meaningless.
Maybe look up the International Workingmen’s Association, and the 8 hour day movement, which followed the Nine Hours Movement of 1871–72. Or read a little about where the weekend comes from.
Ah yes the old catch cry of the commies, trying to paint the picture that labour unions are synonymous with communists parties.
Yes, UNIONIST, not fucking communists fought and died for workers rights. You lot just latched on to it like a fucking parasites you are so you could bolster your image.
Here is how your glorious fathers of communism “supported” trade unions. Spoiler Alert, they didn’t.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_unions_in_the_Soviet_Union#:~:text=The trade union system in,4 to 5 million kolkhozniks.
None of those unions had liberal or conservative leaders numbnuts. They were built by socialists, just like all the new unions you’re seeing pop up today. The Amazon union? Chris Smalls? They read lenin mate.
Oh really, of course you can provide evidence for this bold claim right? Oh wait, absolutely you cannot because it is a ridiculous statement which is clearly untrue.
Your whole premise is that communism is good and capitalism is bad. As if the world is that black and white. You sound like a first year political science student who just got done reading Manifest der Kommunistischen.
I know because I personally spoke to him when he came over to the UK to help with some strike action that was happening here, Coventry if I recall correctly? But I guess you want video or some shit? Hasan and Chris Smalls quoting and big-ing up Lenin on stage?
Yes. Communism is good and capitalism is bad. All of human history shows revolutions caused by class struggle drive forward human progress from one stage of society to the next. Communism will win. It is inevitable. No matter how many of us that you kill off.
See that is how little you know. No form of government is inherently good or bad, it is how it is run.
The fact that you won’t move to any of the communist “workers paradise” countries is the proof that you lack conviction in your beliefs. You are a hypocrite.
Labour unions are not the same as a communist party or vanguard but to claim they’re not mostly organized and consisting of socialists is just immensely naive and stupid.
Mostly is not ALL as was the previous claim, and I’ll bet most of you don’t work, let alone done manual Labor or been in a union. So in reality you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
You know, as a general internet arguing advice, when you have no points to make anymore, and the response you write to the other person is literally just a bunch of insults, it’s probably better to just disengage.
The society that spent the last 20 years in a murder spree in the Middle East does not get to lecture anyone about intolerance.
How many countries has America invaded in your lifetime? How many murders have American thugs committed?
Ah yes, not unlike your glorious Soviet overlords right? I mean they have never invaded a middle eastern country and indiscriminately killed men, women and children.
That’s the thing about you communists, you seem to only ever remember the shit others have done and not your own.
Which Soviet overloards? There never was Soviet rule in my country. Stop talking nonsense.
Ah yes, ignore the point and try to argue something irrelevant.
Communism is a shitshow and has been every time someone tried to implement it. The Soviets literally littered Afghanistan with “toy bombs” in order to mame children in order to try and clog up medical camps and prevent people from fighting them. So yeah, we can stand on the high ground here because we didn’t do that shit.
Capitalism sucks, but it has an objectively better track record on human rights, human development and social inclusiveness than ANY example of communism throughout history.
Factually untrue. When compared at an equal level of development socialist countries provide a better physical quality of life.
And remind me, what are the top ten countries with the highest rankings in life expectancy, education, safety, personal freedom and personal wealth?
Here let me make it simple, none of them are communist and none ever have been.
That abstract may as well read as communist fan fiction. Because 100% their “socialist” examples are all democratic capitalist nations.
That’s the thing about the USA, they don’t know what socialism really is. So any country with public health care gets call “socialist”.
What? No they fucking aren’t. They are all literally the countries that you would call tankie. You have not read it. Bozo.
The actual socialist countries included(quoting from the study): China, Cuba, Mongolia, North Korea, Albania, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, USSR, Czechoslovakia, East Germany.
Liberals and literally just telling bare-faced lies. Name a more iconic duo.
The link only contains the abstract and doesnt name any countries. So if you have read the full paper and that is their claim then that paper isn’t worth shit.
Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that fucking North Korea ranks highly in ANY developmental index. What a fucking joke. Get your head out of your ass.
The current top ten countries on the international recognised human development index are, in order: 1 Switzerland 2 Norway 3 Iceland 4 Hong Kong 5 Australia 6 Denmark 7 Sweden 8 Ireland 9 Germany 10 Netherlands
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
You are full of shit and fucking moron, so get fucked idiot.
This is nonsense.
How many countries has America invaded in your lifetime?
The point is that America is a murderous nation.
Yeah, you’re thinking of (and listening to, by the looks of it) western propaganda institutions such as the John Birch Society, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party neoliberal leadership 🙄
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Think of it like a social contract. If you don’t play by the “rules”, you’re not protected by those same “rules”. If someone is intolerant, it’s silly for that person to expect people to extend them the same courtesy that they themselves refuse to extend to others. Hypocritical, too.
It’s kind of like the free speech thing. Maybe you could talk about grass for days on end, but that wouldn’t mean that anyone would have to listen to you talk about grass for days on end.
It is, but it’s necessary. Look up the “paradox of tolerance”.
For these racists folks anyone who is not a Westerner is subhuman. Their voices do not matter. They should shut up and know their place.
You are the intolerant one.
Be that as it may, why should people be prevented from questioning it? Isolating people does not make them better informed. Conversation does. All that isolation accomplishes is creating echochambers --which only serves to strengthen their beliefs.
They aren’t and they aren’t even being prevented from doing it on this very instance. There’s pleny of anti-western and anti-capitalist sentiment in here, particularly from lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml. My take away on this is that the Admins are defederating from hexbear due to their stated plan to propagandize the shit out of every instance in the fediverse. Who wants to deal with a coordinated army of tankies coming from another instance?
lmao
Western countries, famous for loving social security.
Yes, as “western countries” famously is not just the US.
Let me guess, your examples are Finland and Sweden, two countries that have been gradually dismantling their welfare states for decades?
Every European country has social security
Achieved by the ideology of the very people you’re currently suppressing. All you’re doing is moving this community hard-right, alienating the left by saying “this is not for you”.
How do you think this discussion is gonna go down every single time this community ever gets linked anywhere now? It’s gonna be “the community that banned socialists” and it’s gonna attract the neoliberals and the far right as a result while ensuring everyone that leans remotely left says “oh, fuck that then”. It’s a completely shortsighted move for the future of the instance. It’s going to have nazi bar syndrome.
As soon as we had that PM where you said “survival of the fittest” to me I knew something was up. You literally quoted Thatcherite/Ayn Randian philosophy to justify selectively not intervening in name squatting and community theft, a move that completely fucked over this instance’s potential to work with any subreddit modteams in further hastening the reddit migration. Livid that I was led on by this place to begin with.
Oh you mean that time where you asked me to remove the current mod from !gamingcirclejerk@lemmy.world? Where you asked me to either add you as a topmod or rename the existing one because you were the moderators of that community on Reddit?
I told you to pick it up with the current one or to create it on another instance. I said that with your entire reddit community behind you you would quickly become to bigger “gamingcirclejerk” without me having to intervene. It was in that context that I called it “survival of the fittest” of communities on instances. Nothing too philosophical about that.
Feel free to post our entire conversation here.
Yes I do mean the time the official gamingcirclejerk team asked you to stop the misrepresentation of this GCJ, which is literally stealing the branding, and the graphics created by the official team on the subreddit, and presenting itself as a continuation of it. I asked you to resolve it. Whether that meant putting the official team in charge, or whether that meant some other resolution, because attempts to reach out were being ignored. I am not misrepresenting that conversation, neither are you really I don’t see a reason to contest that other than me as topmod, nobody suggested anything other than the existing team being added to it, most likely in the existing hierarchy but we didn’t get that far in conversation did we? So given there’s no much disagreement on the content let’s just skip to the end eh?
And there was no response from then on.
After discussing it with some of the team gossip got around various reddit mod backrooms and bish bash bosh nobody wanted to have anything to do with this space anymore because it doesn’t respect the work and effort people put into creating those communities and bringing them up to what they are today.
Like, what exactly did you expect this response to do? Inspire faith in the way this team respects other teams, wants to maintain positive relations and genuinely does care about the work people put into their communities? It was flippant. And the expectation was that same flippancy about everything would be the experience modteams would all get if communities were made here - so they weren’t, with completely valid concerns.
And now what’s happening? More incredibly shortsighted decision making. This topic is going to come up every single time lemmyworld is ever mentioned now. It is going to haunt the site. And on top of that the site already struggles with clear wreckers trying to harm it, coming from fascists or from some other instance that wants to see it fail or maybe reddit, who the fuck knows. And now it’s taken the risk of adding thousands of extremely pissed off and sleighted leftists to that, completely unnecessarily, because you know damn well they absolutely wanted to play nicely. Are these the actions of an instance carefully thinking about its health(avoiding drama that inspires unstoppable wrecker behaviour that constantly cripples the site) and maximising its growth(networking with and promoting the transition of users from elsewhere) while promoting a positive environment(making people nice to each other instead of hostile)? Fuck no they’re not.
You seem to be leaving out the parts where you asked me to remove the current mods from the community. And where you said that the GCJ community “might not understand my actions” and become hostile basically.
So honestly I already stopped caring about whatever you had to say afterwards.
Is that the best you’ve got? Systems that have been “gradually dismantled for decades” but still provide a higher quality of life for their citizens than not just the US but every single authoritarian government. Also the list is a lot bigger than two countries.
Do you practice being this stupid or does it come naturally?
I mean, that’s the best the West has got. Everywhere else, social security is considerably worse and means-tested. Plus, both have got right-wing governments that aren’t exactly fans of social security: the last right-wing Finnish government introduced an ”activation” system for unemployment which was so bureaucratic a lot of people’s benefits were cut for not being able to jump through arbitary hoops, and they’re bringing a similar system back, as well as cutting many, more focused benefits. What @Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world said also applies here, since the whole welfare state only exists due to the CIA funding social democrats during the Cold War as a counter to socialism.
There’s many more factors to consider than whether or not a country is AuThOrItArIaN. A country living off the backs of the global south can give its citizens a better standard of living than countries in the global south? Surprised Pikachu.
Are you sure? And yet, even if it is, it’s still providing better quality of life for more citizens than anything that came before it.
You mean there’s a number of voters that would vote for non-socially democratic parties and that those parties would try to dismantle socialised institutions? Surprised Pikachu.
You are aware that there’s idiots voting for anti-social parties in even the most socially advanced countries too right, you’re not just disingenuously blaming the ineffectualities of the system on those that support it, right?
What does the CIA have to do with the anti-social masses in all the other countries around the world? Doesn’t take a psyop campaign to find authoritarian morons.
Yeah, like how their populace votes.
No shit. Just like a country that engages in good faith democratic representation and supports social services can also provide better healthcare and happiness index ratings than the US, Russia, and China.
Name a “non-western” state where you would like to live and enjoy their social security.