In reference to: https://lemmy.world/post/23862757
I use Void btw
Image text:
Most people rejected his message.
“Systemd is Satan’s creation! Pure Evil!”
They hated Talking Pig because He told them the truth.
Just the meme/thread I was looking for. As someone that’s been out of the linux game for awhile, what’s the lastest on the controversy here? Do the systemd haters look more or less correct in the year 2025?
Upvoted because it belongs in this community, and should not be silenced, even though it is the wrong opinion
I don’t really get the hate for systemd. At least for someone who started really using Linux after it was introduced, it always seemed easier to control and manage than the init.d stuff.
Obviously it’s a hassle to migrate if you have a ton of legacy services, but it’s pretty nice.
It’s not just init.d that exists, alternative init systems such as dinit and OpenRC are a thing. The general complaint about systemd is that it’s too heavy and complicated for something as simple as an init system, and it has already gone way beyond that.
This does not only increase the attack surface of a Linux system drastically, giving way to exploits and potentially backdoors, but it also puts too much power in a piece of software’s hands as more and more things start depending on it.
And systemd is not even needed to create a user-friendly Linux system anyway. Chimera Linux with GNOME would be as smooth an experience as Fedora Linux if only it had more software in its repositories and PackageKit support.
It’s because you now need to do
systemctl restart sshdinstead of/etc/init.d/sshd restart, I see no other reason than having to learn new syntax.Arguably, init.d scripts were easier to understand, and systemd is a bit of a black box, it somehow works, but who knows where it writes logs or saves the process pid (it’s all in the documentation somewhere), with init.d script you can just open the script itself and look.
I think it’s okay to not 100% know every little detail of how a system works, as long as it’s possible to find out what you need when you need it.
This post was sponsord by the Backdoor Buddies
Don’t minimize those strengths. Init.d scripts are something you can figure out just knowing a bit of shell script, or historical knowledge from before there was an internet. For something I rarely use, why do I need to learn something more complex to do the same thing - I either haven’t been sold on all the new functionality they piled in or do not need it. After all these years crowing about the Unix/linux way being many independent flexible tools that can work together, why do we now have this all-in-one monstrosity that might as well have come directly from Microsoft?
You don’t have to use systemd. However, the rest of the world left you behind. Systemd isn’t controversial since everyone has adopted it. No one is making you use it but keep in mind you are a very small minority. The rest if the community moved on after systemd was release 10 years ago.
This is fine for the memes but outside of that it is silly.
Windows isn’t controversial since everyone has adopted it. No one is making you use it but keep in mind you are a very small minority.
Windows has about 80% market share (decreasing) in a very specific and shrinking niche (desktop PC’s).
All other computing devices used by most people daily on the client and server side are dominated by some form of Linux or BSD.Hexbear user spotted (or at least that’s what my first impression is with the weird image)
Windows isn’t controversial since everyone uses it. That’s a true fact.
Hexbear user spotted (or at least that’s what my first impression is with the weird image)
Heck no, that’s just an ancient meme to indicate it’s just banter/harmless trolling, not an attempt at serious discourse.
The more you know I guess. I wasn’t on the internet in 2008.
What’s weird about the image? It shows up as a trollface to me. Are you like, 14?
I’ve only seen that image used by Hexbear users
If I was 14 I would’ve been born in 2010. I’m young but not that young. (I’m in my 20’s)
Trollface was probably the most popular meme of the last decade, you must have been living under a rock
I wasn’t on any social media prior to about 2 or 3 years ago
You’re joking, it was on Twitter a decade ago
They’re usually a little more creative, like this:
Hard disagree, I have been using Linux for over two decades and find sysd superior to sysv
I’m about 2 decades in too, really not here to argue since everything has already been said multiple times. I do see systemd in a somewhat similar light as Pulseaudio. Yes, some good ideas there and it’s a useful tool, but it wasn’t the be-all end-all solution.
Maybe, but SysV Init was just fucking awful. It’s a shame.
Poettering worked for Red Hat from 2008 to 2022.[2][3] He then joined Microsoft.
In 2017, Poettering received the Pwnie Award for Lamest Vendor Response to vulnerabilities reported in systemd.
This Mastodon stream from Lennart Poettering describes a sudo replacement — called run0 — that will be part of the upcoming systemd 256 release. It takes a rather different approach to the execution of privileged commands, avoiding the use of setuid (which he calls “SUID”) permissions entirely.
Basically Microsoft bloat confirmed, everyone switch back to OpenRC lol
Install what you want we’re in the land of the free (and open source software) here
It’s not evil. It’s merely
- the wrong tool
- built wrong
- on wrong principles
- by a bad team
- who has poor coding and interaction
and now RedHat’s wunderkinder has moved onto Microsoft where he’s a better fit. Ideally, we can go back to Linux again.
Simple.
As someone who ran security for an enterprise OS company, I can’t see why there’s any debate on this. Are we used to choosing comfy things despite the safety concerns, now, or just when Lennart shits them out?
Are we used to choosing comfy things despite […] concerns
People have been choosing convenience above everything else for a while, personally I find that doing so is even glorified at times.
I still can’t wrap my head around why SystemD has become the defacto standard & why aren’t devs trying out OTHER init-systems
- It was doing new things.
- It was easier to learn.
- The other init systems were (are) stagnant.
Imagine trying to get new, young developers to adopt C or Pascal when the likes of Rust and Python exist. You can make arguments for a thing’s superiority based on moral standards (which are always subjective), but morality is a poor metric. If everything was done based on that, the Linux ecosystem would be in the same state as the GNU Hurd kernel.
It’s pretty good at starting services. It just keeps adding bundled things people wouldn’t use otherwise, in a fairly microsoft fashion
Is systemD open source ?
There’s also no uppercase d in
systemd, the word is entirely lowercase (but I’ll still write it with an uppercase s at the start of sentences).
The choice of init system is up to the distro maintainers because init scripts are usually created and maintained by the packager of a given application. Debian for example chose its init system via a democratic vote. Distros that focus on different init systems exist, like the Debian fork Devuan.
Yeah, I’m planning to switch from Arch to Gentoo. Systemd isn’t the only reason, but it’s a big one.
(Yes, I know about Artix, but it’s… kindof a Frankenstein’s monster, still mostly depending on the Arch repos and still with certain relics of Systemd. Or at least it was when I last tried it.)
If you like Arch you might like Void, it has roughly similar ideals and a very fast package manager. No AUR equivalent though.
It can build packages from source like Gentoo though if I remember right
I’ve never really had issues with systemd, but I must say when I was setting up void I did really enjoy the runit init system 🤷♂️
Hueheue i use artix btw
redpill me on artix. Why should I switch from something like gentoo that still enables me to avoid systemd?
I tried gentoo a while ago and couldn’t figure out portage, but that’s on me… The reason i switched to from standard arch was just because my pc took 3 miniutes to boot (from nvme) and changing my init sys to runit solved my issue. I’d love to actually figure out gentoo someday though
There’s a support channel on irc for things like this. Also portage is just a better pacman–it can do more and thusly a time investment is necessary to be in control of your hardware
This is high art.
been out of lemmy for a while, what happened to the comic strip where openrc and runit battled systemd?
It was cropped and this is being passed off as new content
