If you’re calling a business and leaving a voicemail they may not always have easy access to the number that placed the call either. It’s stupid, but it happens. And even if they do, it’s confirmation for them that the number to return the call is the same.

I disagree on one key point. My problem with the Democratic Party is not that they don’t satisfy my immediate wishes. In fact, it is very much the opposite.

Voting for them does satisfy my immediate wish in the general elections, which is always to keep the Republicans out of power. My problem with the Democrats is with the long term health of my country’s politics. There is a deep rot in the Democratic Party and always going for the easy path has led to that rot being ignored and festering into the sinister problem we have today. It was exposed in the most public manner to date in the 2016 primaries, and they’ve been covering it up and smearing anyone who is trying to address it ever since.

I firmly believe if we don’t root out this corruption in the Democratic Party, it does not matter what happens in the short term. Focusing only on one election at a time is what got us into this position. We have to fight the hard fight now while we still can, because we’re sliding into fascism if we don’t, no matter who wins elections. We were no farther from fascism after Biden’s term in office than we were before.

You’re so deep in denial that you’re just making up my replies now? K. Have fun with the fascism that you’re causing.

You’ve completely missed the point. I’ll reiterate the end: your rhetoric is causing people like me (not who behaved exactly like me, but who share an ideology that led to 3 increasingly difficult votes to execute) not to vote. You are working against your supposed goal and acting like a superior pompous ass shitting on the people that you help to make apathetic rather than put pressure on the corrupt Democratic Party.

Stop blaming nonvoters and put pressure on the Democratic Party to actually do something to inspire people. That’s their job to be good enough to get votes. Blame the actual problem, not the symptom. You only make the symptom worse by focusing on it and actively letting the problem fester.

I voted Dem in the general (after supporting exclusively progressives in the primary through donations and voting) because that’s what I believed to be the best solution to the short term problem of Trump. But I also believe that the implicit support of the Democratic Party’s practices by that vote is detrimental to the long term stability of our nation. Both choices (voting Dem despite their authoritarianism in the primaries or abstaining/voting third party) were a mixed bag of good and bad. I chose one, and I have gone on to be a steadfast and vocal critic of the Democratic Party’s practices to work against the implicit endorsement of my vote in the general.

You, instead, have doubled down on endorsing the Democratic Party’s practices by blaming people like me who had that same rock and a hard place vote and went a different direction. Both of those groups are trying to do the best thing for the country in the long term. Your unfounded and unprompted blaming of that group for the actions of the Republicans is absurd and counter-effective. This kind of narrative that you espouse is very much a factor in people who are on that fence not wanting to support a party that will try nothing and blame them anyway. That’s why you are at fault. Every time you post comments like that first one, you are helping the Republicans. And we’re 9 years past you getting to claim you don’t know that. So I blame you specifically for your contribution to the hostile environment on the left that is only helping the fascists.

You know how to know if you’re in the wrong? What would a malicious foreign agent do in order to keep the left weak? They could accomplish that very easily by going online and saying exactly what you do. And before you “no u” me, is anything I’ve said going to dissuade a Democratic voter from voting Democratic? That honor belongs to you.

You’re vehemently supporting the authoritarianism of the Democratic Party, yes that is indeed worse because that authoritarianism is what’s keeping them an ineffective opposition to fascism. Slowing the slide into fascism by 10% doesn’t mean anything when we end up in fascism anyway. And you’re burning up the time we need to rebuild the Democratic Party to actually be democratic.

I’m not being hyperbolic, I actually do believe that by defending the Democratic Party you are worse for our country in the long run than people who ideologically refused to vote Dem in the general because of their authoritarianism in the primaries. Your path still ends in guaranteed fascism, all you care about is feeling superior in the meantime.

Right, you’re also complicit then. Willingly overlooking authoritarian election tactics and blaming the people wronged instead of the authoritarians. You are far more responsible than the people you blame unprompted.

No apology. Not that you’d be willing to admit the illegitimacy of 2016’s primaries anyway. “Things to fix” is a very weak description of throwing away democracy and then propagandizing goons like you to blame the disenfranchised for what happened next.

You’re the one who started this whole thing blaming lefties for the current situation. Go edit in an apology for that if you want to keep talking.

You’re very obviously misinterpreting everything I’m saying on purpose, so I don’t expect you to even understand this comment.

Lol, right? A comment that effectively amounted to “Trump mentioned --> scapegoat progressives” draws no attention but me calling out the bullshit of that comment draws out all the sycophants who can’t stomach an ounce of blame. I’m tired of this shit.

I am too, but on top of that I’m worn down much more by people blaming the group not in power (progressive voters) that was fighting for real change instead of blaming the group that was in power (the Democratic Party in general) and is in power (the Democratic Party in internal politics).

I can’t do anything about Trump. I literally did everything I could against him, including voting for primary candidates that didn’t go on to lose against him. So when people like you tell me my opinion is only valid if I voted the right way, I seethe at the idea that you’re not blaming the people who actually have the power to put forward popular candidates but choose not to. You’re blaming and being dismissive and derisive to the wrong group. Your discourse in this thread is exactly what keeps the Democrats an ineffective opposition.

You said my opinion wasn’t valid if I didn’t vote Democrat. Then went on to say that all voters are valid. Your first comment is the kind that people like me have been getting particularly strongly in the last 3 cycles, even if we do vote Democrat but dare to express a counter opinion.

I see it everywhere, and that wears me down and makes me, someone who barely bites my tongue to vote for Democrat after Democrat that I don’t believe should be president, want even less to do with the party whose vocal supporters blame my ideology and tell us we’re invalid.

It’s why I had such a strong reaction in my initial comment. That first one I replied to is par for the course blaming the far left for the failings of centrist Democrats, saying what the Republicans are doing is our fault. It’s tired, derisive, and I don’t give a shit about playing nice after a decade of this firehose of unfounded blame.

Literally you in these comments:

I realize that, but their wording leaves it open to interpretation like maybe they didn’t vote democrat at all. In which case nothing they say is valid imo.

That’s completely at odds with this comment I’m replying to.

Refusing to hold the Democratic Party accountable is enabling the behavior that leads to those piss-poor candidates.

It’s absolutely a failure of the base that spends all of their energy blaming the people they need to be working with, and then getting all angry when those people feel too alienated to vote with them.

Everyone who still refuses to blame the Democratic Party for 2016 fucked up and they need to know it.

The first comment I responded to literally blamed left voters for what Republicans are doing. But you’re not calling them out.

When did I say that? I voted for one of those two over the other. My comment was clear about that.

I didn’t vote third party. I voted Dem.

The one with the comment that started with aggressively blaming people dissatisfied with the Democratic Party out of absolutely nowhere? Sure am, I’m tired as fuck of this narrative and it only serves to further alienate voters that need to be heard for the first time in decades.

Even if I didn’t, my opinion would still be valid. Are left wing folks who don’t align with corporate Democrats a large enough group to influence elections, or small enough not to matter?

If the former, you need to work with us and refusing to do so is a failure of the Democratic party and its base. If the latter, then you are no better than a playground bully beating up a weaker kid because they lost a different fight.

I didn’t vote for Trump. And you don’t seem to have a good idea of just how bad corporate Democrats are. It’s not “they won’t touch what we have” it’s “they’ll give it away in less visible ways,” often through inaction when action is possible, necessary, and begged for by the people. They are not an opposition to the Republicans, they’re complicit.

Our biggest fight is trying to convince apathetic nonvoters to vote, and apathetic voters to actually vote against this system in the primaries. Your messaging is hurting the latter, so please stop.