In a democratic state, things like universal healthcare are also called “socialized medicine” because it is an example of the people owning the means of production in that particular industry.
That’s why most countries are what we call “mixed economies”, that mix elements of capitalism and socialism.
Norway mixes in a higher ratio of socialism to capitalism than most countries. But they don’t export any more of capitalism’s issues to the third world than other countries. It’s something to emulate, not discredit.
Pretty sure no one with universal healthcare calls it “socialized medicine”. That’s just a buzzword Americans use to scare each other.
It’s not a means of producing anything other than health. Health is seen as a human right and it makes sense even in most western capitalist countries for it to be extended to everyone.
I’m Canadian. It’s what the founder of our healthcare system, Tommy Douglas, called it.
And yeah, it’s the people owning the means of producing health. Socialist healthcare.
Americans scare people with these references to brutal authoritarian dictatorships that call themselves “socialist” but the real cause of all these problems is that they weren’t democratic, not that they socialized industries.
Anyways, maybe it’s just my autism making me literal as fuck, but I think you guys need to clear that up. This is what the people owning the means of production looks like. It’s always going to be adjacent to capitalism, whether it’s a socialist industry in a capitalist country, or a socialist country in a capitalist world.
No wtf. Democracy is state that holds elections. Wtf is “owned and controlled by the people”? How are people supposed to control the government? The government is controlled by govt officials. Common people don’t control shit. How can a government be owned by people? Is government even a property that can be owned? That doesn’t make any sense.
Umm, no. Elected politicians can do whatever tf they want. There’s no legal mechanism to make them fulfill the promises they made during their campaign.
That we elected
Not to mention that elected politicians aren’t controlled by the people, most of the government positions aren’t elected.
Through democracy
Democracy is when Government is owned by people. People own government through democracy. Great argument.
If I ask a friend to water my plants, do I no longer own the plants?
If you ask government to persecute people who break the law, do you no longer own people who break the law?
Umm, no. Elected politicians can do whatever tf they want. There’s no legal mechanism to make them fulfill the promises they made during their campaign.
The next election is the mechanism that makes them fulfill the promises they’ve made during their campaign. If your politicians aren’t afraid of losing the next election, you don’t live in a real democracy, you probably live in a FPTP country, and you should fix that.
Not to mention that elected politicians aren’t controlled by the people, most of the government positions aren’t elected.
I don’t know what country you are assuming counts as the entire world with this sentence, I’m going to assume America because it’s usually Americans that do that.
But even then, what is wrong with me hiring someone to hire more people?
Democracy is when Government is owned by people. People own government through democracy. Great argument.
What is your counterargument other than “no”?
If you ask government to persecute people who break the law, do you no longer own people who break the law?
You can’t own people, you never did, what are you trying to ask here?
What do YOU think the people owning the means of production looks like?
and in a demoratic world norway wouldnt be doing tax-free extrativism in my country (and others’), so that you can pay for your socialized medicine in a capitalist economy, where the money to finance it has to come from the poor. in this case we are your poor.
Socialized medicine is always cheaper than capitalist medicine. It’s inherently more cost effective for people to pool their money together. It isn’t paid for by some rich miner buying mining rights in some other country.
I’m not sure how that link is supposed to refute anything? It says basically what the comment above says without using the phrase “mixed economies”.
If you meant the power structure and public/private balance is heavily capitalist for Nordic countries then you’d probably want to post something else supporting that statement.
In a democratic state, things like universal healthcare are also called “socialized medicine” because it is an example of the people owning the means of production in that particular industry.
That’s why most countries are what we call “mixed economies”, that mix elements of capitalism and socialism.
Norway mixes in a higher ratio of socialism to capitalism than most countries. But they don’t export any more of capitalism’s issues to the third world than other countries. It’s something to emulate, not discredit.
No. “Socialized medicine” is not “people owning the means of production”
It is in a democratic state. Who else do you think owns it?
Pretty sure no one with universal healthcare calls it “socialized medicine”. That’s just a buzzword Americans use to scare each other.
It’s not a means of producing anything other than health. Health is seen as a human right and it makes sense even in most western capitalist countries for it to be extended to everyone.
I’m Canadian. It’s what the founder of our healthcare system, Tommy Douglas, called it.
And yeah, it’s the people owning the means of producing health. Socialist healthcare.
Americans scare people with these references to brutal authoritarian dictatorships that call themselves “socialist” but the real cause of all these problems is that they weren’t democratic, not that they socialized industries.
Anyways, maybe it’s just my autism making me literal as fuck, but I think you guys need to clear that up. This is what the people owning the means of production looks like. It’s always going to be adjacent to capitalism, whether it’s a socialist industry in a capitalist country, or a socialist country in a capitalist world.
Interesting, thanks for the Canadian history lesson Perhaps that’s where the Americans got their weird terminology from.
Who needs to do what? I’m not sure what I said that somehow gave you the impression I was an American.
My society pays for universal free healthcare, like everywhere in the civilized world.
How is democracy related to ownership?
A democracy is a state in which the government is owned and controlled by the people.
No wtf. Democracy is state that holds elections. Wtf is “owned and controlled by the people”? How are people supposed to control the government? The government is controlled by govt officials. Common people don’t control shit. How can a government be owned by people? Is government even a property that can be owned? That doesn’t make any sense.
Through elections.
That we elected.
Through democracy.
If I ask a friend to water my plants, do I no longer own the plants?
Umm, no. Elected politicians can do whatever tf they want. There’s no legal mechanism to make them fulfill the promises they made during their campaign.
Not to mention that elected politicians aren’t controlled by the people, most of the government positions aren’t elected.
Democracy is when Government is owned by people. People own government through democracy. Great argument.
If you ask government to persecute people who break the law, do you no longer own people who break the law?
The next election is the mechanism that makes them fulfill the promises they’ve made during their campaign. If your politicians aren’t afraid of losing the next election, you don’t live in a real democracy, you probably live in a FPTP country, and you should fix that.
I don’t know what country you are assuming counts as the entire world with this sentence, I’m going to assume America because it’s usually Americans that do that.
But even then, what is wrong with me hiring someone to hire more people?
What is your counterargument other than “no”?
You can’t own people, you never did, what are you trying to ask here?
What do YOU think the people owning the means of production looks like?
So not Norway, or any Western capitalist pseudo democracy.
Yes Norway, or any other country with proportional representation, but not FPTP democracies.
How else do you think the people can own the means of production?
and in a demoratic world norway wouldnt be doing tax-free extrativism in my country (and others’), so that you can pay for your socialized medicine in a capitalist economy, where the money to finance it has to come from the poor. in this case we are your poor.
Socialized medicine is always cheaper than capitalist medicine. It’s inherently more cost effective for people to pool their money together. It isn’t paid for by some rich miner buying mining rights in some other country.
No. They are capitalist.
I’m not sure how that link is supposed to refute anything? It says basically what the comment above says without using the phrase “mixed economies”.
If you meant the power structure and public/private balance is heavily capitalist for Nordic countries then you’d probably want to post something else supporting that statement.
By that logic, socialism cannot exist until the entire planet is socialist.