Women who transitioned decades ago feel their safety and security has suddenly been removed
Last week’s supreme court ruling sent shock waves through the UK’s trans community.
The unanimous judgment said the legal definition of a woman in the Equality Act 2010 did not include transgender women who hold gender recognition certificates (GRCs).
That feeling was compounded when Kishwer Falkner, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which is preparing new statutory guidance, said the judgment meant only biological women could use single-sex changing rooms and toilets.
I hate it when European countries play “who can emulate the US the fastest”
Well, UK birthed the US after all. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.
From having lived in several countries in Europe, including the UK, I would say that Britain is the closest we have here to the US when it comes to being a deeply flawed Democracy, possibly worse than the US since unlike it, Britain doesn’t even have a written constitution, so just about everything can be changed with a law passed by a simple parliamentary majority (of 50% + 1) and as the UK has a First Past The Post electoral system said majority can be had with a mere 34% of votes cast (the current government has such a parliamentary majority with only 33.7% of votes), which given the typical level of Parliamentary Elections abstention over there is less than the votes of 1/4 of voters.
Britain has wonderful propaganda helped by some really weird elements like the local elites sending their children to schools were they learn the fine arts of “managing apperances” (learned behaviours which in many other countries would be considered dishonest and deceitful) plus a media industry which is World class (probably the best Theatre industry in the World, IMHO) often used to project a very good image of the country (its almost a joke how every couple of years, almost like clockwork, out comes a new film about WWII portraying Britain as a great country), so from the outside most people have a good impression of of that country, but if you’re living there and get involved in Politics and really learn about their system, the more you learn the less Democratic it seems.
Surprise, it’s religious history.
Good on you for leaving the EU with at that fuss about “human rights” and “rule of law”.
The UK doesn’t even have a written constitution, so everything, including “Rights” is really just one parliamentary majority (which with the country’s First Past The Post system can be had for as little as 34% of votes cast, which taking in account the typical levels of abstention means the approval of less than 1/4 of the population) or one Supreme Court decision away from being nullified.
Back when the UK was still a member of the EU (to be an EU member one MUST be a member of the European Convention Of Human Rights), this kinda stuff ended up in the European Court Of Human Rights (which is not an EU court, but instead is the court of last resort for members of the European Convention Of Human Rights), but nowadays maybe that’s not so (I’m not sure if the meanwhile after Brexit the UK has already left the European Convention Of Human Rights, but being able to leave it was one of the things the Brexiters claimed was a “benefit” of leaving the EU).
(Edit: it turns out the UK is still a member of the Council of Europe and hence the European Convention Of Human Rights, so maybe this can still be appealed to the European Court Of Human Rights)
I’ve lived in a couple of countries in Europe, including the UK, and found the UK the be the least Democratic of all (frankly I’m not even sure what they have is a real Democracy rather than a “managed” Theatre Of Democracy to keep the riff-raff thinking they have real power).
I had to avoid looking at this topic elsewhere because it made me so fucking angry. My best friend in the entire world is trans, and she’s coming for Christmas this year. I’m not sure what I’d do if someone harassed her for using the toilet, but I get the feeling my mugshot would be in the paper afterwards.
As far as I understand, trans people are still a protected class under other statutes on the UK, but basically just don’t count for any laws like “50% of company board members must be women to receive this tax break”.
Which, idk, seems reasonable to me.
So how about the toilets and changing rooms mentioned?
Why would you say it’s reasonable unless you don’t consider them to be women?
Trans women experience misogyny. Most transphobia is rooted in misogyny. If you’re subject to misogyny, you should count towards female hiring quotas.
Only if you take it in a vacuum. Acting like this is a singular incident and not part a seires of events that have made trans people less and less safe in the UK is a poor judgnent call.
The reaction is definitely blowing it out of proportion, but trans women should definitely count toward that.
It seems pretty unreasonable to me that laws like that exist in the first place, so my answer to the question how trans people should be counted for such purposes is “neither because such laws shouldn’t exist”.
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The centrism fallacy:
A: I want B to be erased.
B: I want to exist. Fuck off.
Centrist: Now now don’t be rude. Let’s find some middle ground. A wants B to stop existing and we must respect all opinions. B, do you have a compelling and reasobable counter-argument for your right to exist? Be civil.
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Except B here is the centrist position. If you actually look at political dialogue it’s more like:
A: I want B to be erased.
B: I want A to be erased.
Just look at all the guillotine-posting around here for examples.
So the binary is “trans people” versus “fascist oligarchs”?
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At what point did I say you as a centrist am saying that trans people don’t exist?
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When did I say I was talking about the definition of a woman?
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You can fuck off to storm front whenever you want
Can someone clarify, which rights? To use this toilet instead of that toilet?
Women being forced to enter men’s bathroom submit themselves to staring and danger of harassment
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Lockable stalls you cannot peek into
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What do you mean “what do you mean by woman”? The women who are the focus of this article and this comment thread.
Well it depends on the definition, which is the whole point of the article i.e. was defined by the UK supreme court as a biological female. So by that definition, who is forcing a woman to go into a man’s bathroom?
Besides maybe cases like intercourse and medical, “woman” and “man” are social roles formed by identity and perception, instead of genital-determined conditions (nobody sees your organs in public, i hope). Therefore, whoever identifies as a woman and is perceived socially like a woman, is a woman. That includes many serious trans women, who will be women in a men’s bathroom.
which is why bathrooms would be better suited by being separated by gender, not sex
