Nice hearing about something Poland is doing right!
Poland does many things right
I’m sure it does. The thing is I mostly hear about the things Poland does wrong. That’s what trends to break into international news. That’s why I worded my comment the way I did.
…as long as it doesn’t offend the church.
Is that unusual for Poland? I have no idea, myself.
Poland is doing a lot of things wrong on the judicial side.
By “judicial side” you mean “Poland is going Hungary/Israel judicial style”?
Agree 100%. It’s just an unhealthy dose of sugar and caffeine, which is hardly regulated.
To be fair, it’s the same amount of sugar as most other sodas and had less caffeine than a typical coffee. The real issue is that a lot of their marketing targets a younger audience who probably shouldn’t be drinking caffeinated drinks yet.
I say this as a long term caffeine for the rest of my life addict. Coffee + sugar is a wildly different effect than just coffee. I avoid sugar completely during my coffee hours.
The most popular energy drinks in Sweden are sugar free but contain 180mg of caffeine, that’s two large cups of coffee.
A tall coffee at Starbucks has about 230mg of caffeine and that’s fairly typical. A large coffee at 90mg would either be 2/3rds decaf or incredibly watery.
I dont think Starbucks is considered a cofee in europe. More like an american desert cofee honestly. And how large even is that? Half a liter? Typical cofee in europe is at max half of that.
There are huge variations between chains in a single country, let alone between countries. And ‘large’ in the US likely means something very different to what ‘large’ means in different parts of Europe.
But your point stands up, in general. Starbucks is noticeably low in caffeine (in the UK) and 90mg would be low in a medium (chain) coffee here:
A medium cappuccino at Costa Coffee contains a “massive” 325mg of caffeine, almost five times the strength of the Starbucks version with a modest 66mg.
By contrast, Greggs and Pret A Manger also use significantly less caffeine in a cappuccino of the same size, at 197mg and 180mg respectively. Caffè Nero had the second lowest levels of caffeine after Starbucks in this drink specifically, containing between 110mg and 115mg.
The study also found that one single espresso from Pret A Manger contains 180mg of caffeine, or six times as much as its Starbucks counterpart. Pret’s filter coffee also contained the highest caffeine levels at 271mg, compared to 225mg at Greggs and 102mg at Starbucks.
Energy drinks often contain a bunch of other stuff - e.g. Taurine, which isn’t necessarily bad per se, as it eliminates some of the caffeine side effects (jitteriness), but that may arguably make it more addictive.
eh, fair enough. teenage energy drink addiction has caused me years of insomnia. we already have an age restriction on energy drinks in the UK, though it’s 16 not 18
I don’t think that’s true anymore. The ban wasn’t formally finalised and was quietly dropped during the pandemic. The store I work at still sells energy drinks to under 16s. We used to have to check, but they changed it and took the warning off our tills.
ETA: stores can implement their own policies though, if they do wish to age check people buying energy drinks.
I have no idea what’s going on then lol. pretty much every shop I’ve been to has asked for ID when buying energy drinks
Reading those comments drops your IQ by 5 points. Now calculate the economic impact that will have… You can’t because reading this comment drops your IQ by another 5 points :(
the whole point of banning energy drink sales to minors is that minors are at a higher increase of heart issues because their body can’t handle caffeine like adults. but sure, everyone else is the idiot on this one and “the economy” is definitely more important than kids’ health
Idk what y’all think but honestly I’d say these little cans of poison need a warning lable like cigarettes as well
Absolutely a good thing. As someone who drank a lot of energy drinks in high school, it was not worth it.
Sadly, large amounts of caffeine were a way to control my ADHD when I couldn’t afford medication. I still usually have an energy drink daily, even though I’m medicated now. At least that’s less that what I used to do.
Why? I’ve consumed caffeine for a long time without any problems…genuinely asking
It’s not only much cheaper to not have a caffeine addiction, but it also I think makes me much more present as I don’t need caffeine in the mornings to function, and I get enough sleep. Just seems better to me.
No time for sleep when you either
- Need to work till 17:00 and then also do need to do even more when you’re home
Or
- Party the whole night
I just love super strong flavors. I drink ice water throughout the day after my breakfast, though.
imagine if this whole thing was about cigarettes. id imagine people would be questioning why it wasnt age restricted sooner. caffeine and nicotine are practically the same type of addiction, but one of them is legal for almost anybody to get and the other is getting banned more and more
Caffeine is pretty easy to quit though. Cigarettes aren’t.
Also caffeine isn’t as harmful as cigarettes.
It’s harder to quit than you think for some people. Any addiction can be hard to give up. And you do feel like shit if you stop using caffeine cold turkey after drinking 12 cups of coffee a day.
Sure, but easier than cigarettes
Maybe. I don’t know. I think it depends on the person. I quit cigarettes cold turkey and have never touched another one since. My wife had to quit over months. We both smoked for the same amount of time and smoked about the same number a day.
Now I don’t feel I need to quit caffeine. I have a big mug of tea in the morning and that’s it. But I can see someone who drinks coffee constantly, and I’ve known people like that, having a much harder time quitting that than I did quitting smoking.
OP referenced nicotine not cigarettes specifically. Things like vaping and chew fall into this category too and both have been restricted in many parts of the world over the last few years “for the children.”
And they do it anyway
What’s the harm from caffeine though?
I grind beans for coffee in the morning, then move onto tea. It’s got L-theanine in as well as caffeine.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31758301/
When I was a teenager, we were shotgunning beers and smoking hash. A lot worse than a few energy drinks a month.
Only those energy drinks that have artificially added caffeine or taurine are going to have their sales restricted to those over 18.
When I was a teenager, we were shotgunning beers and smoking hash. A lot worse than a few energy drinks a month.
When I was a teenager, I started drinking coffee before I went to school. Everyone was still half asleep and I couldn’t sit still as coffee was my energy drink. I regret it now because I need more caffeine to wake up.
not having caffeine for a few days gives withdrawal effects same as nicotine withdrawal effects (not exactly the same, but same idea if you get what im trying to convey)
Yeah but there aren’t severe short term or long term effects from drinking caffeine, as there are with cigarettes. Insomnia and increased blood pressure but that’s about it, isn’t it? Smoking causes immediate infections and many long terms issues including lots of different types of cancer.
short term effects trouble sleeping, irregular heartbeat, restlessness etc. etc. can trigger panic attacks to people who are prone to them and potentially can kill children
long term are insomnia, constant anxiety (i have witnessed first hand caffeines effects on anxiety. it sucks to see), depression, stomach problems, high blood pressure, and it also has problems when used during pregnancy and breast feeding
so yeah to me its a little weird how normal caffeine is in life to where it is almost unrestricted where i live while nicotine has flavor bans
These symptoms will stop though if you stop drinking caffeine - not necessarily the case with cigarettes.
I hope this would also include products like “5 hour energy”, which are energy drinks, but in a smaller and even easier to shot down package.
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“excluding products where those substances occur naturally.”
That seems like a dumb exception. It’s not like naturally occurring caffeine is somehow better for you. If it’s above that limit, then the law should apply to that as well.
It’s a lot easier to pass a law banning the sale of artificial drinks to minors than it is to ban coffee sales to minors.
Artificial drinks, not caffeine? Coffee is artificial drink too because it is human-made.
It nearly impossible to define energy-drinks in a way that does not include coffee, but include off-the-shelf drinks.
Coffee has its beans dried and roasted, then ground and seeped in water. If you’re going to call that artificial, then you are claiming that literally any cooked food is also artificial.
Coffee has its beans dried and roasted
Coffee beans are dried. Then beans then ungo a Maillard reaction, caramelisation, pyrolysis and decarboxilation to form new organic componds
then ground and seeped in water
Then ground to maximize the surface area. The prouder is then extracted using unpure H2O as solvent. A higher temperature is needed to raise the solubility of the compounds.
You can describe anything that’s consumed by people with chemical terms and it’s gonna sound unnatural.
You remind me of that old joke site warning people of the dangers of the chemical compound DHMO (dihydrogen monoxide)
And you are correct.
For those who think energy drinks are not the same, please point out at which stage coffee is no longer coffee and why:
- Make coffee
- Filter it
- Evaporate more water
- Add sugar
I’m gonna go with the step you didn’t list which is soaking them in dichloromethane or ethyl acetate for several hours, or submersing them in high pressure, supercritical carbon dioxide, to extract the pure caffeine. Then adding that pure caffeine into a mixture of artificial sugars, preservatives, and food dyes.
But sure, that’s totally the same as something that’s essentially a type of tea.
I would argue that naturally occurring caffeine is much worse than synthetic caffeine because it also contains rest of plant’s toxins and other not so good stuff.
On the other hand not that anyone uses sunthetic caffeine in their drinks. It is expensive as hell.
Those kind of things aren’t really popular outside of America. I only ever see them in America
Seen them in Thailand. Red Bull was originally in small shot format.cam from there, and it was adapted for other markets.
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Rare Poland W
Finaly. This should be done in every country, since they are so unhealthy.
So you have a source on why you believe these are unhealthy?
They’re pure sugar water and caffeine. I drink them but do you honestly think there is a chance they are healthy in any possible way?
Is any canned drink “healthy”?
Liquid Death
Ensure/Slim Fast? Probably not a majority of them.
No? I mean it’s a decent source of B vitamins and taurine, but cmon.
But I don’t think chocolate is healthy and I let my kids have chocolate sundaes sometimes too.
I don’t see why teaching my children moderation could ever be seen as bad.
FWIW I don’t normally allow my 8 year old to drink pop (friends birthdays are about it) but my 17 year old having a large Starbucks coffee once or twice a week was not a big deal to me.
That all seems reasonable, but none of this was alluded to in your previous comment and it gave the implication that you were suspicious of energy drinks being labeled “unhealthy.”
Also I think there are benefits with chocolate. It’s the sugary Hersheys type chocolate that is nothing but empty calories.
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Yeah I wouldn’t recommend people drink 3 of these controversial energy drinks per day, both for health and financial reasons.
From your link:
Up to 400 milligrams (mg) of caffeine a day appears to be safe for most healthy adults. That’s roughly the amount of caffeine in four cups of brewed coffee, 10 cans of cola or two “energy shot” drinks.
1/3rd of that consumed by a teenager really doesn’t seem that scary, and the page you linked agrees.
Energy drinks (EDs) are sweetened beverages that contain multiple stimulants such as caffeine, guarana, or taurine.
…
The results of this study reveal that the consumption of a single, bodyweight-adjusted ED dosage is linked with a significantly higher median 24-h SBP (+5.26 mmHg) and DBP (+3.45 mmHg), compared to a placebo beverage, in healthy children and adolescents. A meta-analysis by Conen et al. suggests that an increase of 10 mmHg in 24-h SBP is connected with a 27% higher risk for cardiovascular events.38 In addition, a population-based study by Hansen et al. indicates that an increase of 5 mmHg in 24-h DBP is associated with a 27% higher risk for cardiovascular disease.39 Therefore, the ED-induced alterations in the pediatric 24-h blood pressure profile displayed in this study can be considered alarming.
Moreover, chronic ED consumption could result in arterial hypertension and hence increased left ventricular afterload, ultimately leading to left ventricular dysfunction and hypertrophy.16 A previous publication conducted by our department reported a significantly lower cardiac efficiency after acute ED consumption in healthy children and adolescents.16 Furthermore, many EDs contain high amounts of sugar and thus “empty” calories. Chronic ED consumption could therefore lead to the onset of glucose metabolism disorders and aggravate weight gain. As ED consumption is associated with a shorter sleep duration,32 it might additionally increase cardiovascular risk.35 In summary, children and adolescents, particularly those with elevated cardiovascular morbidity (e.g., arterial hypertension, diabetes, excess weight), should be discouraged from consuming EDs. Moreover, minors should be made aware of the potential health risks of excessive ED intake as well as responsible ED consumption behaviors.
The administered ED dosage was bodyweight-adjusted (3 mg caffeine per kilogram of bodyweight) and reflected the maximum daily caffeine intake for healthy children and adolescents as proposed by the EFSA
Yeah I wouldn’t let my kid have that much caffeine for sure.
For my waifish daughter, that’s around 200mg of caffeine which seems really high, outside of what the average person consumes.
By comparison, I’m cool with my kid having about half that, or approximately 1 Monster/Large coffee, once she’s a late teen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Energy#Ingredients caffeine, a lot of it.
That’s 1/3 less caffeine than in a 16oz iced coffee from Dunkin Donuts, and a large is 32oz.
I’m not arguing to give large coffees to 8 year olds but rather that this isn’t as much caffeine as people think it is
Coffee is ilegal for children in most countries, so thease should be as well, but you have a point.
Where is this true? I’ve never heard of this and Google fed me nothin
I just assumed it is. Maybe it isn’t. Idk sorry.
Probably not a bad idea in light of the Logan Paul situation
I was about to ask if he did something new, but then I realized that it wouldn’t matter. That whole man is a “situation”.
Excuse me, but this is “the situation”.
Oh my god you’re right, I vaguely remember that guy exists.
What did he do this time?
I just looked it up and dear god… Kids will drink it too.
I work in a grocery store in Europe and now that Prime is produced in Poland and it doesnt cost absurdly, I can say that mostly, if not only, kids are the ones drinking it.
Edit: I just got back to work and checked that my country’s biggest chains only sell Prime Hydration, which is caffeine free.
I can definitely see the reason for the ban based on that alone.
Are you fucking kidding me? Christ. “not marketed for people under 18” my ass, they fucking know Logan’s main audience are kids (idk about ksi but I suspect his is similar) and that kids are absolutely gonna drink their fucking caffeine nuke.
That’s as much caffeine as 3 8oz cups of coffee, which doesn’t seem that extreme to me.
Any large iced coffee from Dunkin has more caffeine.
Not extreme for a child?
Define “child.” A 6 year old? I don’t let my 6 year old drink pop at all. A 16 year old? Not a concern for me.
You would let your 16 year old chug 3 cups of coffee in one sitting?
People don’t generally chug an iced coffee. I’d have many, many questions if she did.
Why is it not a concern for you? Where did you get your medical degree from?
You don’t need a medical degree to have an opinion. Caffeine is a mostly harmless drug.
Because I can do math? I don’t need a medical degree if I just read studies from people who have medical degrees.
As a layperson, I make decisions based on what scientists tell me, rather than thinking I know more than scientists.
So are they going to ban coffee too for under 18’s as well or pretend that doesn’t contain the same/more caffeine than an energy drink?
If it’s not the caffiene content thats the issue are they going to ban all soft drinks if you are under 18?
I can’t speak much about Europe, but when I was in the beverage industry about 10 years ago, energy drinks often had ADDITIONAL ingredients (supplements) far beyond caffeine.
If you look on the back of those energy drink cans in the US, they don’t say Nutrition Facts, they say Supplement Facts. That is important, it tells you how the item is classified and whether it has to follow FDA rules on Foods or FDA rules on Dietary Supplements (like vitamins do).
And if you look at the list of ingredients in many energy drinks (I have a tub of powdered GFuel before me so I’m refreshing my memory using that–it says “Supplement Facts”), you see a lot of ingredients like L-Tyrosine or L-Citrulline Malate which never appear in anything categorized as a food with the “Nutrition Facts” label on it. These fancy designer ingredients are basically newly-developed things that do not yet have a long-term proven track record of safety when eaten regularly on an everyday basis like a food.
A “food” is expected to be eaten regularly, so the standard of safety is higher for ingredients that go in a “food”. There’s a specific list the FDA has that lists ingredients considered GRAS (generally regarded as safe). New ingredients have to be evaluated by the FDA to determine whether they can be treated as GRAS, or if they have to have additional regulation if a corporation wants to put them in a food, drink, or supplement.
Corporations, unsurprisingly, LOVE to throw all sorts of newly created ingredients in things, for marketing purposes, so they do a lot of shady shit like labeling their product as a dietary supplement–but marketing it as a food so people think it’s a food.
Something classified as a “dietary supplement” (as many energy drinks are) is not meant to be eaten regularly as a food item. It’s meant to be consumed less frequently to SUPPLEMENT other things you consume or put in your body. However, people often treat energy drinks as a “food”, as if they’re the same thing as pop or juice, which could potentially be dangerous to your health because the ingredients in them have not yet proven they have a track record of safety when consumed frequently in food-like amounts. (I’m not really talking about caffeine here, I’m talking about all the OTHER stuff they throw in it.)
Whether a drink is classified as a “supplement” or a “food” is important. It is a big thing, because the regulations for what can be put into something that’s a “supplement” is looser than what can be labeled as a “food”.
I don’t know exactly how Europe draws the lines or what the regulatory landscape is there regarding energy drinks, but it sounds like this ban is possibly because Energy Drinks tend to have ingredients that push the boundary on what is safe eaten in large amounts like a food and what might be more harmful like a drug. Europe is generally stricter than America when it comes to food safety.
The EU is a regulatory hellscape and it’s one of the biggest problems the EU has.
So are they going to ban coffee too
Probably not
You know, that wouldn’t bother me, and I’m a big advocate for personal choice and freedom.
It’s not caffeine, it’s sugar
Okay then why does Coca Cola get a pass or chocolate or any kind of confectionery or soft drink?
Coca cola? probably because they are Coca Cola. Also it’s like 10% sugar. Maybe energy drinks are higher in sugar?
Solid things? That involves some effort - chewing - and you are less likely to eat that much sugar as opposed to chugging it down from energy drinks.
Energy drinks have so much shit in it to help give you energy/keep you awake. Coke and other sodas have sugar and caffeine. And I never said that the others got a pass, they’re both bad for you, just one is way fucking worse.
Cue the black market for buying energy drinks for minors.
Imagine all the new super strong energy drinks created by a black market demand. This is awesome!
It’s unlikely to cause any kind of large black market. In the UK, energy drinks have been restricted to 16+ for a few years now. People don’t mind off brand vapes or cigarettes (for some reason), but people absolutely care about the brand of energy drink they are buying. Kids especially, I imagine most only buy them to look cool, and if no one knows you are drinking a “cool” energy drink then why bother?
No energy drink is as cool as the one with the skulls on the can that glows in the dark and is laced with Chinese research chemicals you can only get one the dark web or from your older brothers friend that believes there’s a Nazi base on the moon.
Underage kids will still drink them, they will just pay inflated prices for them from 3rd parties.
People that are old enough to buy them legally will buy up packs of them and then sell them to kids who cannot legally buy them.
Same thing happens here in the US with alcohol and cigs.
That’s a good thing, that’s less total caffeine they ingest. Which is the entire point. To reduce easy access to high dose caffeine. The kids could just huff coffee if they really wanted, no solution needs to be perfect to have an effect.
I’m not saying it’s bad or good, I’m just saying that Poland will need to do more than just restrict sales to minors if they want to have long term success with this.
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So when they ban sugar and junk foods? I think they cause more problems than soft drinks :D
wonder how much of this “energy” comes from cafeine and such compared to how much actually comes from plain’ol deadly addictive sugar…
Does it even matter? It’s clear they are shitty especially for kids.
Well it does to some extent, because maybe they’re just the tip of a wider problem, an easy target that lets conveniently 90+% of the hyper-sugar products, super-highly addictive and harmful, available to children…?
Nanny state shit.
It’s like you want to push people away from the center towards extremism .
If not being able to buy energy drinks as a kid pushes you to extremism, you were already destined for that to begin with.
It’s a spectrum. They might not blow up buildings but might start hanging out in those forums. Shit like this is very unpopular with folks in the center of either side.
