- cross-posted to:
- firefox@lemmy.ml
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- firefox@lemmy.ml
- technology@lemmy.world
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I don’t trust homophobes or cryptobros, especially not those with a history of selling users out like Brendan Eich
Especially when there is Firefox and Firefox-based, privacy-focused alternative with great add-blocking and privacy extensions.
I don’t trust anyone who invented Javascript.
Very strongly worded, but yes.
Brave have had a history of controversy since their inception. Every time something happens, the CEO went on a marketing campaign across social media and drummed up enough new users to drown it out. However the attitude of the business is clear: it would take a very small sack of money for Brave to sell out its users.
If you’re going to use a Chromium web browser, there are non-commercial open source projects that don’t have a history of shady shit. However Firefox forks are better.
Which forks do you suggest?
Not the OP, but here are some alternatives anyway.
Firefox:
Chrome:
I use fennec from F-droid on mobile
Also Mull and Iceraven from F-Droid
Ok, but why? What’s wrong with Firefox and how do the forks address those points?
I posted the list of alternatives simply because OP asked for forks.
What’s wrong with Firefox
Me posting this list shouldn’t be an implication that I believe Firefox to be bad. I’m offering alternatives as the OP requests.
and how do the forks address those points?
Every one of the links I shared have detailed information about how their product mutates the original Firefox or Chromium browser. Do you really need me to copy-paste that information into a comment?
Mullvad , LibreWolf and Tor.
Other people have given desktop examples. For Android, I use Mull, which also has a companion Android System Webview implementation (Chromium) called Mulch. These are baked into the DivestOS ROM, which itself is a fork of LineageOS.
Does it support extensions like Firefox?
Yes, full support for desktop Firefox extensions. I think it also comes with uBlock Origin by default.
Just saw it does support custom add-on collections like Firefox beta and nightly… I’m going to give it a try
Edit: it supports startpage as search engine out of the box as well!
All I can say is try DivestOS :)
My opinion: It doesn’t have full customisation (compared to eg. CRDroid) but it does at least have call recording and long press back button = kill app process, along with traffic monitors for the status bar. All regular phone calls have a banner at the top reminding you that they’re not secure (as opposed to E2E encrypted chat calls over the internet) and Location permission settings seem to be a bit more expansive than other ROMs.
Absoutely. I mostly use Firefox because I’m so familiar with it by now but the privacy is generally much better and it doesn’t have a massive monopoly on the web. I’m just a lot more comfortable with it.
When I have to, I use ungoogled-chromium on desktop and Bromite on mobile. I recommend those to anyone familiar with Chrome.
Unfortunately Bromite has been abandoned, however someone has made a fork called Cromite.
Why was appointing Eich as CEO so controversial? It’s because he donated $1,000 in support of California’s Proposition 8 in 2008, which was a proposed amendment to California’s state constitution to ban same-sex marriage.
Which is all the reason I need.
If he had changed his tune since then and done something to offset that, I might be willing to cut him some slack.
But, instead, he seems to have doubled down…
They had me at invented JavaScript
People that use Brave always remind of the people pushing crypto.
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Crossover? Crypto is built-in! https://brave.com/brave-rewards/
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Seems like the Venn diagram of those two groups approaches a circle, if the OP is any indication.
I use firefox as my main but have brave as my chromium/PWA browser because I don’t really fancy using edge or chrome
What other browsers out there support PWAs that are less spyware-ey than the big names
Chromium is pretty safe to use. There are also builds of “de-googled Chromium” available.
Vivaldi, though it’s source available rather than fully open source. It’s mostly the frontend JavaScript (I think?) code which is proprietary.
Apparently, if you know enough to understand it, you can technically work out what all the proprietary code is and does because it’s all fairly simple stuff and separate from the Chromium base (which they make available on their site), although distributing it would be against their ToS (I guess it’s technically reverse engineering, which is also against their ToS).
It’s been a very long time and I can’t actually confirm that for the current release, but it was at least true a few years ago when someone who knew far more about programming than me mentioned it on their forums. I think some people took a look at it and found some basic theming stuff, but nothing nefarious.
They have a fairly solid privacy policy last I checked. They also have no intention of sticking with Google’s v3 plans.
The only thing I don’t like is they run a daily user count check by pinging their servers. They’ve made it so that there are no IDs, anonymized or otherwise, but it’s still a bit of a black mark on an otherwise decent piece of software.
Firefox supports them
Firefox does not support PWAs on desktop, but there is an extension to enable them which works well.
Out of curiosity, why would you use PWA on desktop?
test my own PWA of websites I’m developing
changing browsers or keeping both open breaks the workflow and sucks. and it’s pretty damn slow for me too
There’s sometimes desktop functionality like saving music on yt music
Also having them in their own window/their own shortcut is pretty handy and firefox doesn’t support shortcuts either nowqdays
Not a single solid reason given in this unhinged rent except a mention of that affiliate link fiasco, which even they themselves agree was a major fuckup.
All BAT and crypto stuff are completely opt-in and it barely takes a few clicks to set the browser to never let you see that side of it again. As for Brendan’s political affiliations, most users couldn’t care less. He might as well be a
furryflat-earther but if the product is good, it is good. Stop acting like you’re sure all the things you use throughout the day aren’t made by people with doubtful leanings.I personally don’t use Brave on desktop, Firefox is good enough; but it is the best option on Android currently since Bromite is almost always a Chromium version behind whatever is current.
Edit: Just learnt that I was wrong in my perception of what “furry” meant. Reading the replies objecting to that reference made me dig a bit deeper and realise that it’s just a type of fandom, and not some sex-deviant cult that pop media made me believe. Sorry for the wrong example.
mf really conflated being a homophobe to being a furry 💀
Can we please let this meme hate die? How have you people not adjusted to the concept of putting on a costume and roleplaying, we do it every October.
Corrected now
As for Brendan’s political affiliations, most users couldn’t care less. He might as well be a furry but if the product is good, it is good. Stop acting like you’re sure all the things you use throughout the day aren’t made by people with doubtful leanings.
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People do care about Eich’s beliefs, or this discussion wouldn’t even be happening.
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There’s nothing wrong with being a furry, and trying to compare it as though it’s equivalent or worse than being a shitbag bigot is bullshit.
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If you know that the people who run a company are bigots and you continue to use their products and services, you are giving your explicit approval to who they are and what they do. “if the product is good, it is good” absolutely fucking not. Goods and services don’t exist in a vacuum.
Bro, most people don’t even care about their own privacy and keep using edge/chrome in windows. Some lemmy users care about Eich’s beliefs, like you, but most people don’t.
I am not even sure what that list supposed to prove either…
I am sure CEOs of banks or oil companies are totally not bigots who absolutely despise poor’s, that’s I feel fine using their products!
Please tell me this is sarcasm
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Not a single solid reason given in this unhinged rent except a mention of that affiliate link fiasco, which even they themselves agree was a major fuckup.
That’s pretty dismissive of a feature that could only have been added intentionally. It’s not like there was some accidental glitch that was adding affiliate suffixes on the end of links.
What we have here is a business poking and prodding and seeing what they can get away with. You’ve said that there’s only one thing they did that’s truly out of line, while glossing over the fact that most of what they do is borderline. Their intent is clear.
The very first reason seems valid to me. No way anyone should be supporting a hateful asshole like that. Anybody going around saying homosexuality is any less valid than heterosexuality has no place in our society anymore.
Brave is the browser for the far right.
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I have this weird suspicion that a person advocating to specifically ban gay marriage (and not get rid of marriage in general) might actually be homophobic
Honestly, that article is pretty lousy. It just boils down to “I oppose gay marriage because I don’t like the concept of marriage”. Just seems like veiled homophobia to specifically call out opposition to gay marriage when they could have just written “I oppose the concept of marriage, and this is why”.
I’m removing this comment. Your link isn’t relevant to the discussion, Prop 8 was an attempt to ban gay marriage in a state where it was currently legal.
Further attempts to debate human rights will be met with a permanent ban.
If directly funding homophobic policies isn’t a good enough reason for you, you need to look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why that is
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Not a single solid reason given
Well not to you, but that doesn’t mean much considering you think spyware is fine as long as it’s opt-in (and that being a furry is equivalent in severity to being homophobic, wtf). The fact that you think this article is bad is basically a ringing endorsement.
“Funding awful people doesn’t make me awful” Say sike right now
it is the best option on Android currently since Bromite is almost always a Chromium version behind whatever is current.
Right now Bromite is unmaintained and has been for a long time. I shudder to think how many versions it’s behind.
If you want a FOSS Chromium-based Android browser, use Mulch. It gets updates fairly quickly and serves much of the same purpose that Bromite did, while actually having a (very slightly) larger dev team.
Edit: Oops. Didn’t realize that Mulch doesn’t have a content blocker. Someone else mentioned Cromite (which does have a built-in content blocker), so that might be a good option as well.
Or Cromite, a fork of Bromite that’s kept up to date and has more features.
Huh. Didn’t know about that one. Thanks for mentioning it!
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To anyone reading this article, only the first quarter of it is about the beliefs and political stance of the developers. The rest of the article after that goes into more technical reasons.
All I needed to read was in the first paragraph.
Brave Software, the company behind the browser of the same name, was founded by Brendan Eich. He’s best known as the creator of JavaScript from his days at Netscape Communications
I mean, JS is his baby that’s all there needs to be said about the person’s motivations.
“JS is his baby that’s all there needs to be said about the person’s motivations.”
“During these formative years of the Web, web pages could only be static, lacking the capability for dynamic behavior after the page was loaded in the browser. There was a desire in the flourishing web development scene to remove this limitation, so in 1995, Netscape decided to add a scripting language to Navigator. They pursued two routes to achieve this: collaborating with Sun Microsystems to embed the Java programming language, while also hiring Brendan Eich to embed the Scheme language.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript
I think you’re confusing the reasons behind the initial intent of JS versus what it has evolved into almost 30 years later.
Imagine a world where Java integrated into the web was just as standard as JavaScript is now.
we were really close… I remember lots of placeholders for where Java applets were meant to be
During these formative years of the Web, web pages could only be static, lacking the capability for dynamic behavior after the page was loaded in the browser.
And it was better. Frankly, http was a mistake, humanity would be healthier and happier if we stopped at gopher.
I love Brave, use it daily, and this article didn’t convince me at all. Vaguely motioning at the founder’s ancient political donations or the optional crypto features, doesn’t make a strong case.
2008 is not ancient. Nor is same-sex marriage some minor technical legal point.
Nor has he repented.
Nor has he repented.
That’s the important point for me.
People can change after 20 years. But he prefers to double-down instead.
So? He’s the CEO of a company that already gets no money from me.
Online forums pick the weirdest hills to die on sometimes. You’ve probably used hundreds of products today alone made by companies whose CEOs are worse dickwads than Eich. But this gave you a chance to feel superior online so you had to take it lmao
As a gay Californian, I took prop 8 personally. I spurn its supporters as I would spurn a rabid dog.
Chromium should be enough of a reason to get rid of it.
You see, when someone is known to make bad choices it makes sense to approach what they do with apprehension. This guy not only has a history of bad choices, he’s also the CEO.
You’re free to do as you like of course, but I’d say it’s hardly fair to say the article is unconvincing.
Yeah this article is not very convincing
Brave is great! No ads, Tor built in, and can install Chrome extensions. I don’t use their crypto wallet and it’s never bothered me
Ad will be injected soon. Tor is not built in.
Tor is not built in
Source? I’ve used Tor with Brave
You’ve used onion links. Brave implemented unsecured onion protocol in thier Chromium browser.
Anything using Firefox as a base can run onion links with a simple add on because Tor is just Firefox. Vivaldi comes with onion support right out of the box, doesn’t support hate and is malware free.
I use brave and think it’s the best browser available, so I’m not arguing against it or anything, but technically it just supports use of the onion protocol, it does not provide the same full suite of protections that the tor browser does
As Brave says themselves:
For users who currently require leakproof privacy, we recommend using the Tor Browser, which provides much stronger and well-tested protection against websites or eavesdroppers using advanced techniques to uncover a true IP address.
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“Just learned about this company that’s led by a raging bigot who has used his wealth and position to try to oppress others and strip them of civil and human rights, and I fully support that and am now a proud supporter”
They also sell userdata more than Google, have installed malware knowingly and thier shitcoin skirts the law.
The moment my cryptofan buddy started talking up brave, I knew it was time to uninstall.
Stop telling me what to do
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Yes mom
Clean your room!
Don’t stick your fork in the light socket!
Now it makes sense why some of the Fox News-parroting, right wing people I know use Brave. I had no idea about what the author mentioned about the browser, I just know it is based on Chromium which I will not use. Thus, I am on Firefox. And for many reasons, including those the author laid out, I’m happy I chose wisely.
Don’t need to tell me twice. I’ve distrusted Brave since I saw their advertisement for it. It just feels like they sell the browser in same mood as pyramid schemers does their products.
But its just my gut feeling. Got no good reason why people should avoid the browser. And because the CEO is an ass isn’t a good enough reason for most people.
Isn’t this like the fourth time this has been posted? the conversation always goes around in circles with nobody changing their mind.
I never used brave. I wasn’t interested in it since I learned it was chromium and all the crypto stuff.
I used to think Brave was good until I found out they are into crypto.
Nope Nope and Nope! Not using that thing again. Firefox is my friend now.
I don’t use Brave, won’t use Brave, and have my reasons for it.
- Brave is Chromium based; a project which is slave to the whim of Google.
- Brave integrates an unnecessary cryptocurrency.
I hate shitcoins
I don’t trust small crypto projects, and I doubly do not want this to be integrated into my browser. It’s a good way to lose your stable crypto-holdings if you have them. (I don’t; but I’ve seen lots of anecdotes about catching malware that subsequently stole their crypto wallets, including any BAT tokens they owned)
- Brave does not block ads! It does not ‘enhance’ your privacy. It just absorbs some ads, replaces some, and blatantly lets first-party advertisements through the filter. That’s not ad-blocking
- Brave does not protect your privacy. As per my previous point; it does not block ads, it injects it’s own right into browser chrome! That’s worse than plain Chrome! Your privacy is automatically violated when you watch/view even a single ad.
- Brave does not have many benefits above “Ungoogled Chromium” or other competing projects. It just doesn’t. Unless you like marketing fluff.
- Brave is NOT BETTER THAN Firefox. It’s worse; because it’s Chromium; which is enslaved to Google whims. Don’t believe me? Try to contribute something to Chromium that goes contrary to Google’s stated goals and watch how fast you get shot down.
But sometimes...
Yes, Sometimes a programmer does succeed. But only sometimes; and this is usually because they have the clout, coding skills, chops and public reach to embarrass the fuck out of the Google PMs. This will never be you, unless you put an extraordinary amount of effort into becoming a very well known and respected contributor in the OSS space. If you already are a respected contributor in the OSS space, Congrats! You’re still likely to be forced to fight a long and protracted battle against the Google nerds to get “Google-Hostile” code changes approved.
