The red army of china didn’t really take prisoners.
Woah watch out. You might offend Red Scare propagandists
Your brain on for-profit prisons:
Wow China really dropped the ball on this one.
13th is a really good documentary. Indentured Survitude
More creepy US prison statistics.
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The top score would be Gaza tho with 100% of its population being prisoners.
The proposed stat is '20% of the world’s prison population". No country can ever reach 100% while any other country on Earth has at least 1 prisoner.
Israel is trying to zero out that number as quickly as they can.
Statistics are Khammaaaaz!!!
1 843 701 US prison population
1 686 108 China prison population
The trick is to always assume “China is lying about its internal statistics” and inflate whatever number they give by an arbitrary large percentage. 1.7M is obviously an under-count because the CCP is always lying about everything.
Also, you can do some broad brush “Everyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, and Taiwan are prisoners of the Chinese state, so actually that’s over 60M people” napkin math to make the numbers look better.
I think this is a good rule of thumb in general. When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect. For example, the referendum in held in the Baltics about leaving the USSR ended in favor of leaving, which I think is a good example of a trustworthy statistic. But the subsequent referendum in the remaining members ended in favor of staying in the USSR, and I think that’s a little suspicious, don’t you?
When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect.
I… thought you were being sarcastic. This is an obvious and severe flaw to have in one’s rational thinking.
prejudice (noun)
1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts.With much love and respect I ask you to please read the remainder of my comments in this thread.
oic. Carry on, comrade.
No, Occupied China doesn’t control DPRK or ROC
If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either so the whole conversation becomes pointless
If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either
😏
ILikeNazis
It’s too hilarious it can’t be intentional that the top country not America is El Salvador which is where you’re questionably sending all your black and brown people.
Nothing more American than privatizing and off-shoring our concentration camps.
Preach
Worthwhile note to people too lazy to click on the link is that this is the 2021 version. In June 2024 (which is linked at the top of the linked article) the numbers look a little different but not much better for the US.
LOL just calculated for my country and we’re at 100 per 100000
Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?
Can’t have anything to do with the fact that the US legally allows prisoner slavery right?
Winder what the race ratio of the prison population is.
This is the country routinely accusing other countries of having “prison camps.”
Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?
Legit amazed California wasn’t higher on the list. They’ve been doing mass-incarceration at an industrial scale since the 70s. But I guess the population is big enough that the per-capita statistics work out.
States like Alabama, Louisiana, and Oklahoma have such small and anemic populations and dedicate so much of their domestic budget to incarceration that they’re basically giant publicly subsidized slave plantations.
Isn’t that graph a bit misleading
In what way is it misleading? It seems straightforward to me.
I thought the states were being compared to other countries. Didn’t look properly on the phone.
They are. Just ALL the states are significantly worse than most countries.
Yes but that doesn’t really say much. We know it’s bad in the US. If all German states were bad that would still only tell you that in average it’s bad in Germany
not really. the fact that Louisiana has nearly double the rate of Oregon is significant. so is the fact that
racistsouthern states are at the top and are the ones beating the us average.
They are, and I agree it’s misleading. It’s implying that it’s somehow shocking that the individual states of the county with the highest incarceration rate in the world also have a high incarceration rate. If it was absolute numbers, it would maybe make a point. As it is, it’s stating the extremely obvious and framing it as “look, it’s even worse than you thought”.
It shows which US states contribute more to the US incarceration rate and clearly shows that even those that contribute the least are above the majority of the nations’ incarceration rates. The latter is not obvious without visualizing the data in this way.
If it was absolute numbers, it would maybe make a point.
If you have a population with 10M people and 20,000 of them are prisoners, that’s significantly less concerning than a country with 100,000 people of which 10,000 are prisoners. You can’t make an apples-to-apples comparison between Texas and Wyoming with raw head-count.
it’s somehow shocking that the individual states of the county with the highest incarceration rate in the world also have a high incarceration rate
It’s shocking that the state of Louisiana has a full 2% of its population in jail. That’s twice the US national baseline.
Yes, but that is not how the graph is framed. It’s framed as “look, if we put US states on a graph with other countries, they have such a high incarceration rate that there are almost no countries even on the graph!”
If it was honest and just trying to compare the incarceration rate of US states amongst each other (and the national average) it wouldn’t be titled “[…] in U.S. states and all countries […]”. It’s a clearly manipulative title.
The reason that a graph with this title could maybe make a point if it was absolute numbers is that most U.S. states’ population is less than most countries, so if individual states were still high on such a graph, that would be shocking.
It’s framed as “look, if we put US states on a graph with other countries, they have such a high incarceration rate that there are almost no countries even on the graph!”
It’s certainly possible that you have one big state with a high incarceration rate - Texas or California for instance - that’s throwing off the national average. States are free to set their own penal process. It’s not a given that every state has a globe-shattering incarceration rate.
Saying “It’s not just one or two states with astronomical incarceration rates, its the whole country contributing to the total” indicates something notable about the politics and culture of the country as a whole.
Wyoming could have an incarceration rate of 0% without affecting America’s position as a carceral state. That it doesn’t is meaningful.
Wait… isn’t ~1,000 per 100,000 much closer to 1% than 2%?
It’s still mind boggling, not trying to minimize it.
Thank you that’s what I meant, I just couldn’t put it into words properly.
How is a per-capita incarceration rate, with a reference to the superset included directly on the plot, misleading? Other than including more than El Salvador for the sake of external reference, which is almost certainly a size issue.
I thought the states were being compared to other countries. Didn’t look properly on the phone.
They are (which is the point) the countries are in orange USA (as an overall average) and el Salvador are the only countries that make it on to the list.
They are! The other countries are so far down on the graph they are not visible
Well yes because the US as a whole has a high number. If you added cities they would have even more in the high numbers. What’s the point about that?
Because US states have populations and areas comparable to other countries. Just the US topping the charts is expected. How many states you have to get through to see other countries is interesting.
See? This makes it look like it’s as misleading as I said. This is prisoners per 100.000, that means it doesn’t matter how populous a state or country is. That’s exactly why comparing states with countries is misleading. For every state that has a higher number than the US average there’s states that have a lower number.
The rest are in undeclared labor camps
Goes for both
The reeducation camps closed years ago. Here you have a western source claiming so:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/23/china-xinjiang-crackdown-uyghurs-surveillance/
Surely a champion of Uyghur rights would be aware of this already?
The rest are in undeclared labor camps
Goes for both
US labor camps are not undeclared (though extraterritorial black sites are). They’re called prisons, and the labor is slave labor, thanks to the 13th amendment.
The previous user is a bit off base with the labor camps idea (not to say that the Xinjiang detention camps for Uyghurs aren’t widely known), but it is worth noting that China does utilize administrative detentions/行政拘留 for smaller offenses which are kept statistically separate from prison counts.
If Raiden needs a source, the law covering administrative detentions can be reviewed here:
Xinjiang reeducation camps were closed around 2022 though?
but it is worth noting that China does utilize administrative detention
Isn’t that the same as Jails in the US which is separate from prison statistics?
Jail is where you go for the night when arrested for disorderly conduct and are released the next day.
Administrative detentions can be longer. On paper they can hold you about a month, but it can be longer than that with a judge’s signoff if they have proof of a crime.
This is typically where the police try to get you to confess to something and drag it out as long and uncomfortably as possible until you do, after which you either get to go free (though you end up on a list for a long time) or you may go to a “black jail”/黑監獄 which is a sort of under-the-table prison.
The terms of release can also sometimes require completion of a rehabilitation program, which is often the voluntary alternative to prison, or getting transferred to a short stay detention center for a few months to perform community service.
Administrative detentions can be longer. On paper they can hold you about a month, but it can be longer than that with a judge’s signoff if they have proof of a crime.
And in the US, jail can be up to just short of a year.
This is typically where the police try to get you to confess to something and drag it out as long and uncomfortably as possible until you do, after which you either get to go free (though you end up on a list for a long time) or you may go to a “black jail”/黑監獄 which is a sort of under-the-table prison.
The terms of release can also sometimes require completion of a rehabilitation program, which is often the voluntary alternative to prison, or getting transferred to a short stay detention center for a few months to perform community service.
So pretty similar to the US.
And in the US, jail can be up to just short of a year.
I’d like to point out, ‘proper’ jail, for misdemeanor level offenses, is ‘up to a year,’ but I personally know individuals who have been in jail (where people awaiting trial stay, in addition to people convicted of misdemeanors) for over three years now, still waiting on their trial.
Yeah, the justice system in the US is pretty fucked up. Provably so, with plenty of data made publicly available to back it up.
That meme is working extra hard today but it’s just so perfect for the occasion.
Jail is usually for holding during due process and for sentences up to a year. Prison is generally for sentences longer than a year.
Source: The US propaganda you received and believe uncritically.
What’s next, you explaining their inherent need to lie because of their race?
This happened right before the cultural revolution https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine might have helped cut down the potential prison population…
First of all, I’ll take the honour of using .world’s favourite word: whataboutism much?
Second of all, wow, there was a hunger episode as a consequence of bad ecological policy on a preindustrial society?!
BTW, life expectancy in China at the beginning of the socialist revolution was 35 years, by the time Mao died it was above 55. Those are hundreds of millions of lives saved.
I’m not saying the US isn’t shit with for profit prisons, but I’m not believing shit for any number that China provides on pretty much anything.
Interesting because the number comes from the Institute for Criminal Research and not China, but go on with your total and complete acceptance of US propaganda and unfound hatred of China.
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We don’t believe our governments propaganda
You say, after regurgitating a bunch of your governments propaganda
fucking hell you’re a propagandized racist loser
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To be fair, China is 2nd in overall prison population by country globally, so it’s not like their numbers are complete bs. I’m sure there is some fudging in what constitutes as a “prisoner” when they have “re-education camps” though. That said, the US’s numbers are fucking insane.
they have “re-education camps” though
Do they, though? You, as a champion of human rights in China, are aware that the reeducation camps are closed for years now, aren’t you?
I’m sure the government that lied about wrongly imprisoning people in the first place is totally being truthful now.
I wouldn’t take the Chinese or US government’s claims at face value.
If by “the government” you mean “The Washington Post” and much more western media, then sure
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/23/china-xinjiang-crackdown-uyghurs-surveillance/
There’s an example article, a quick google for “China closed reeducation camps” will throw more results if you feel like doing a bit of research on the brave defence of human rights that you champion.
I mean, googling that does not give the result you claimed it would. In fact, it talks more about how they opened up different types of camps instead
It talks about how they opened up prisons, which is exactly what this post takes into account. There are more people in prisons in the US than in the entirety of China.
You clearly have done 0 research on this topic, and until 5 minutes ago you believed that the reeducation camps were still open and ongoing, despite them closing years ago. Educate yourself on the conditions of the people who you pretend to care about, or stop with your concern trolling.
