Luigi crowd stands for murdering people you don’t personally like and getting away with it.
The CEO stood for exactly what the CEO who immediately replaced him stands for.
I’m unsure how I feel about Luigi (if he is indeed the person who murdered the UHC CEO).
Are you arguing that murder through bureaucratic abstraction doesn’t count as murder? Because that sounds like the same vein as “Hitler didn’t actually kill anyone, he just ordered people to” or “Charles Manson wasn’t actually a murderer, his followers did the killing”. The former CEO intentionally caused death and suffering of thousands of people.
See now you’ve made a claim that offering healthcare coverage is murder.
It doesn’t matter that the company’s terms were shit or that the consumer’s delayed their own treatment and failed to file appeals in the vast vast vast majority of cases, this company’s mere existence net saved lives when compared to the real dark shit like health sharing ministries.
And then, even if what you’re saying were true, if Brian broke into people’s homes at night and stabbed them to death, he is just a fish in a pond, of which the pond is still there swimming with fish.
There is a significant difference between healthcare and insurance. Private insurance, like UHC, makes money by not paying out claims so that they can pocket the money that people pay in premiums. Healthcare is actually treating people’s conditions.
For people with severe illness, this in many cases resulted in their unnecessary deaths. These were not cases of triage to ensure that resources were available to those more likely to survive, it was purely to increase profits. These deaths were the direct result of his pre-meditated actions.
It doesn’t matter that the company’s terms were shit or that the consumer’s delayed their own treatment and failed to file appeals in the vast vast vast majority of cases
Ethically, it absolutely does. The relationship between people in the US and health insurance is an overtly coercive one. People generally do not have any choice in health insurance but that which their current or former employer provides. Engineering a system to provide significant roadblocks and delays results in severely ill people being forced to deal with a situation that they are physically incapable of (from your expressed view, this is the sick people’s own fault?).
And the fraudulent denial of claims and pre-approvals leads to specialists refusing to schedule life-saving treatment at least as often as the patients themselves.
The former CEO commited mass murder with a pen and paperwork, as much as any totalitarian dictator signing the orders for mass executions of innocent people. It’s just that Nixon helped lay the groundwork to make UHC’s murders technically legal.
However, there is no difference between healthcare coverage and insurance. The terms of the insurance are what they will cover in exchange for monthly payments and premiums.
If the treatments were covered then the patient should continue to get care despite a denied claim and should appeal the denied claim, and in the case of delayed care they should sue the insurer.
Is this murder? No. Is this a great system? Fuck no. But it’s the one Americans keep voting for, beyond all fucking reason.
Plainly, yes, it is. Every knowingly illegitimate denial resulting in death from delay or cancellation of treatment is a case of the insurance company murdering a human being.
You really seem to be pulling the blinders on on this topic. Voluntarily choosing an action that one knows will result in another’s death, even if behind bureaucratic abstraction, is more. Saying otherwise is almost literally the same as the fascists like Musk who claim that, since he didn’t personally kill anyone, Hitler was innocent of any of the atrocities that the Nazis committed in WW2.
If the treatments were covered then the patient should continue to get care despite a denied claim and should appeal the denied claim, and in the case of delayed care they should sue the insurer.
Ideally, yes. In the real world, people who are undergoing chemo or other treatments for diseases that are fatal without treatment generally do not have the capacity to get a lawyer or file a lawsuit, between bouts of vomiting and unconsciousness. Even if the denial is overturned, delay in necessary treatment caused by the denial can, and does, result in the disease progressing to a point where mortality is guaranteed.
The former CEO literally preyed upon some of the most vulnerable people there are in the country to increase shareholder profits. He chose company policies and actions that he knew were illegitimate and would lead to people suffering and dying. He got better than he deserved.
I’m unsure how I feel about Luigi (if he is indeed the person who murdered the UHC CEO).
Are you arguing that murder through bureaucratic abstraction doesn’t count as murder? Because that sounds like the same vein as “Hitler didn’t actually kill anyone, he just ordered people to” or “Charles Manson wasn’t actually a murderer, his followers did the killing”. The former CEO intentionally caused death and suffering of thousands of people.
See now you’ve made a claim that offering healthcare coverage is murder.
It doesn’t matter that the company’s terms were shit or that the consumer’s delayed their own treatment and failed to file appeals in the vast vast vast majority of cases, this company’s mere existence net saved lives when compared to the real dark shit like health sharing ministries.
And then, even if what you’re saying were true, if Brian broke into people’s homes at night and stabbed them to death, he is just a fish in a pond, of which the pond is still there swimming with fish.
There is a significant difference between healthcare and insurance. Private insurance, like UHC, makes money by not paying out claims so that they can pocket the money that people pay in premiums. Healthcare is actually treating people’s conditions.
During his tenure, the former CEO oversaw the implementation of a known faulty AI-based automatic claim denial system (https://arstechnica.com/health/2023/11/ai-with-90-error-rate-forces-elderly-out-of-rehab-nursing-homes-suit-claims/), among other actions and policies intended to prevent people from accessing the healthcare that they paid for.
For people with severe illness, this in many cases resulted in their unnecessary deaths. These were not cases of triage to ensure that resources were available to those more likely to survive, it was purely to increase profits. These deaths were the direct result of his pre-meditated actions.
Ethically, it absolutely does. The relationship between people in the US and health insurance is an overtly coercive one. People generally do not have any choice in health insurance but that which their current or former employer provides. Engineering a system to provide significant roadblocks and delays results in severely ill people being forced to deal with a situation that they are physically incapable of (from your expressed view, this is the sick people’s own fault?).
And the fraudulent denial of claims and pre-approvals leads to specialists refusing to schedule life-saving treatment at least as often as the patients themselves.
The former CEO commited mass murder with a pen and paperwork, as much as any totalitarian dictator signing the orders for mass executions of innocent people. It’s just that Nixon helped lay the groundwork to make UHC’s murders technically legal.
However, there is no difference between healthcare coverage and insurance. The terms of the insurance are what they will cover in exchange for monthly payments and premiums.
If the treatments were covered then the patient should continue to get care despite a denied claim and should appeal the denied claim, and in the case of delayed care they should sue the insurer.
Is this murder? No. Is this a great system? Fuck no. But it’s the one Americans keep voting for, beyond all fucking reason.
Plainly, yes, it is. Every knowingly illegitimate denial resulting in death from delay or cancellation of treatment is a case of the insurance company murdering a human being.
You really seem to be pulling the blinders on on this topic. Voluntarily choosing an action that one knows will result in another’s death, even if behind bureaucratic abstraction, is more. Saying otherwise is almost literally the same as the fascists like Musk who claim that, since he didn’t personally kill anyone, Hitler was innocent of any of the atrocities that the Nazis committed in WW2.
Ideally, yes. In the real world, people who are undergoing chemo or other treatments for diseases that are fatal without treatment generally do not have the capacity to get a lawyer or file a lawsuit, between bouts of vomiting and unconsciousness. Even if the denial is overturned, delay in necessary treatment caused by the denial can, and does, result in the disease progressing to a point where mortality is guaranteed.
The former CEO literally preyed upon some of the most vulnerable people there are in the country to increase shareholder profits. He chose company policies and actions that he knew were illegitimate and would lead to people suffering and dying. He got better than he deserved.