Nice article on Meshtastic. The problem is that, like anything, the actual distance is a lot more dependent on line of sight and the actual mesh existing. Which means we’d need a LOT more people to adopt these and put up repeaters for them to be useful. Which is doable, but not cheap.
Have a look at meshmap.net. That shows people who have voluntarily put themselves on a map.
Although it can be a serious underestimation, for example in my area, I’m the only one who lists myself on the map, but there are about 10 other nodes that don’t
Edit: Also, the number of nodes on MeshMap has pretty much doubled in six months since I started playing with it.
Hmm, more than I expected actually. None in my town but one in a nearby town and the nearest city.
Is there a limit to how far can you communicate through multiple nodes? Also is there anything special for setting up a repeater compared to just communicating on the network?
Though i don’t know anyone else that would be likely to use something like this sadly.
They’ve set the maximum at seven hops, but depending on weather conditions, that can easily be several hundred miles.
Nothing special is needed for a repeater except that you probably will want a node with a solar panel such as the seeedStudio solar. You would put it up as high as you can get it. I generally say if it’s more than 100 feet in the air, use router mode. If it is less than 100 feet but above 20 feet, use client. If it is less than 20 feet, use client mute.
Your node in your pocket or in your car should be on client mute mode since them broadcasting will not get the signal much farther and will just cause more channel utilization on high nodes.
That’s pretty much exactly what they are. Text message in walkie-talkies. With the added benefit that if your friend can’t hear you, but another friend is in between, your message automatically gets relayed through their walkie-talkie.
Sucks you can’t charge it and have to instead go to a central bank to exchange minted coins for notes that you can exchange for the commodity that is the radio.
Yeah, I’ve seen some clever stuff where they take a solar powered light and wire in a Heltec V3 for $30-$40. But I thought one of the new upcoming standards (WiFi? Cell?) incorporated a mesh capability.
I worked for Vint Cerf back in the early 90’s. I became aware of the politics around it when Al Gore pushed for funding so the Internet could grow into something bigger than a University/Military communication system. Rush Limbaugh was on the radio daily railing against Al Gore’s Boondoggle. Clinton/Gore secured funding and the Internet exploded in use.
During the 1999 Presidential election, Republicans took Al Gore’s greatest political accomplishment, getting Congress to fund the creation of the Internet, and made it a joke.
Eisenhower had probably the worst foreign policy record because of the Dulles bros. Almost all the CIA government coups that happened occurred during Eisenhower and ended up in disasters decades later.
At that point, given the extremely small bandwidth, we might as well just use a massive wifi, everyone already has the required hardware for that instead of producing more trash for a pretty much non-existing use case.
Funny thing about Wi-Fi, it overlaps with an Amateur radio band (the 2.4GHz spec does) and so hams are allowed to run Wi-Fi with no encryption but a tremendous amount of power and high gain antennas on like the highest channels.
A portion of the 5GHz WiFI band overlaps with the 5.8GHz ham band too. There are also a few WiFi radios that will also work above the US WiFi band where they can operate without interference from other license free devices. Those are used in the HamWAN network.
I wonder how much you could Jerry rig up Wimax for these days. That’s like 30 miles of range. I remember thinking if I was only going within a 15 mile area of my place it would have been cool, but prices 10 years ago immediately made it a no.
Edit: like it sounds dumb, but what prevents someone from picking up a used Wimax base station, putting it as an uplink from their router, then using a Wimax card to receive it? Could even maybe just rig up a small rechargable wifi box, that received the Wimax signal, then rebroadcasts it back out as wifi using your home network name/password. So anywhere near your home the antenna would just pick it up and rebroadcast, maybe just hook it to your cigarette lighter to charge so anytime your in the car it’s on. I assume most people would find it easier/cheaper to just buy a cellular card… haha. But hypothetically, I am curious what would make it not work
Ever since I switched to lemmy, I constantly stumble upon people trying to guilt other people for their hobbies. That’s pretty unhealthy.
Whoever reads this, don’t feel guilty living your life. Spend time on whatever you’re passionate about. Build new things, even if they do not have a rational use case at the moment. They might play an important role in your future.
But the point of LoRa is in the name, long range. Wifi barely reaches outside my house. Also a WiFi mesh is dependent on a variety of complicated and proprietary networks and systems while meshtastic is entirely independent.
Yes. LoRa (from “long range”, sometimes abbreviated as “LR”) is a physical proprietary radio communication technique.[2] It is based on spread spectrum modulation techniques derived from chirp spread spectrum (CSS) technology.[3] It was developed by Cycleo, a company of Grenoble, France, and patented in 2014.
You can have one or the other. If you choose high bandwidth, you’re going to get very short distance because you can’t do serious error correction, etc. If you choose long range, you’re going to get low bandwidth because you need to include error correction, etc. In the transmissions.
In trying times you’re missing the big picture. If they were more commonplace, you’d have a decentralised communication network that can’t be shut down by the government.
Nice article on Meshtastic. The problem is that, like anything, the actual distance is a lot more dependent on line of sight and the actual mesh existing. Which means we’d need a LOT more people to adopt these and put up repeaters for them to be useful. Which is doable, but not cheap.
Have a look at meshmap.net. That shows people who have voluntarily put themselves on a map.
Although it can be a serious underestimation, for example in my area, I’m the only one who lists myself on the map, but there are about 10 other nodes that don’t
Edit: Also, the number of nodes on MeshMap has pretty much doubled in six months since I started playing with it.
Hmm, more than I expected actually. None in my town but one in a nearby town and the nearest city.
Is there a limit to how far can you communicate through multiple nodes? Also is there anything special for setting up a repeater compared to just communicating on the network?
Though i don’t know anyone else that would be likely to use something like this sadly.
They’ve set the maximum at seven hops, but depending on weather conditions, that can easily be several hundred miles.
Nothing special is needed for a repeater except that you probably will want a node with a solar panel such as the seeedStudio solar. You would put it up as high as you can get it. I generally say if it’s more than 100 feet in the air, use router mode. If it is less than 100 feet but above 20 feet, use client. If it is less than 20 feet, use client mute.
Your node in your pocket or in your car should be on client mute mode since them broadcasting will not get the signal much farther and will just cause more channel utilization on high nodes.
Nice, 0 within 25 kilometers of me lol.
Remember, that map is volunteer and only shows nodes of a day or less.
For example, I am the only node in my area who voluntarily puts myself on the map, but there are 10 others who do not.
I always thought these were more like walkie talkies for messaging than telephones that you can call anyone.
Like it would be good if cell serivce goes down.
That’s pretty much exactly what they are. Text message in walkie-talkies. With the added benefit that if your friend can’t hear you, but another friend is in between, your message automatically gets relayed through their walkie-talkie.
Can you message random people or have to already know their contact info?
It is channel-based, using Pre-Shared Keys (PSK).
There is a public line where you can message pretty much everyone with the blank PSK.
Oh, now that sounds fun
Companies are starting to manufacture repeaters and they are not that expensive. You can get one for about 100 Federal Reserve Notes.
Sucks you can’t charge it and have to instead go to a central bank to exchange minted coins for notes that you can exchange for the commodity that is the radio.
“Money can be exchanged for goods and services” - Homer Simpson
Yeah, I’ve seen some clever stuff where they take a solar powered light and wire in a Heltec V3 for $30-$40. But I thought one of the new upcoming standards (WiFi? Cell?) incorporated a mesh capability.
Not that im aware of. SeeedStudio has released a new solar node to be a repeater though
Why not just add networking capabilities or a SIM card?
You can’t expect me not to reinvent the wheel.
As we post on Lemmy, which is a reinvention of a reinvention of a reinvention of Usenet from 1979.
I thought Al Gore invented the internet in the ‘90’s.
Ok, rant time!!!
I worked for Vint Cerf back in the early 90’s. I became aware of the politics around it when Al Gore pushed for funding so the Internet could grow into something bigger than a University/Military communication system. Rush Limbaugh was on the radio daily railing against Al Gore’s Boondoggle. Clinton/Gore secured funding and the Internet exploded in use.
During the 1999 Presidential election, Republicans took Al Gore’s greatest political accomplishment, getting Congress to fund the creation of the Internet, and made it a joke.
Vint Cerf wrote this letter as a result:
https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/gore,net.txt
So he did invent it?
Eisenhower gets credit for building the Interstate Highway system despite not pouring any concrete.
Eisenhower also didn’t drone strike anyone.
Eisenhower had probably the worst foreign policy record because of the Dulles bros. Almost all the CIA government coups that happened occurred during Eisenhower and ended up in disasters decades later.
General Eisenhower definitely bombed some people.
At that point, given the extremely small bandwidth, we might as well just use a massive wifi, everyone already has the required hardware for that instead of producing more trash for a pretty much non-existing use case.
This has much greater range compared to wifi
Funny thing about Wi-Fi, it overlaps with an Amateur radio band (the 2.4GHz spec does) and so hams are allowed to run Wi-Fi with no encryption but a tremendous amount of power and high gain antennas on like the highest channels.
A portion of the 5GHz WiFI band overlaps with the 5.8GHz ham band too. There are also a few WiFi radios that will also work above the US WiFi band where they can operate without interference from other license free devices. Those are used in the HamWAN network.
I wonder how much you could Jerry rig up Wimax for these days. That’s like 30 miles of range. I remember thinking if I was only going within a 15 mile area of my place it would have been cool, but prices 10 years ago immediately made it a no.
Edit: like it sounds dumb, but what prevents someone from picking up a used Wimax base station, putting it as an uplink from their router, then using a Wimax card to receive it? Could even maybe just rig up a small rechargable wifi box, that received the Wimax signal, then rebroadcasts it back out as wifi using your home network name/password. So anywhere near your home the antenna would just pick it up and rebroadcast, maybe just hook it to your cigarette lighter to charge so anytime your in the car it’s on. I assume most people would find it easier/cheaper to just buy a cellular card… haha. But hypothetically, I am curious what would make it not work
You can transmit over whatever, but there’s trade-offs with everything. LoRa is kinda neat because it’s low power.
Might be smarter… wonder if
And you don’t need to be a ham to run it.
Ever since I switched to lemmy, I constantly stumble upon people trying to guilt other people for their hobbies. That’s pretty unhealthy.
Whoever reads this, don’t feel guilty living your life. Spend time on whatever you’re passionate about. Build new things, even if they do not have a rational use case at the moment. They might play an important role in your future.
People are just discussing the pros and cons of technology in the Technology comm. Chill out.
Some people already are
https://map.nycmesh.net/
But the point of LoRa is in the name, long range. Wifi barely reaches outside my house. Also a WiFi mesh is dependent on a variety of complicated and proprietary networks and systems while meshtastic is entirely independent.
Isn’t LoRa proprietary? Like, Meshtastic is open source, but something about the radio itself is proprietary tech?
No.
Yes. LoRa (from “long range”, sometimes abbreviated as “LR”) is a physical proprietary radio communication technique.[2] It is based on spread spectrum modulation techniques derived from chirp spread spectrum (CSS) technology.[3] It was developed by Cycleo, a company of Grenoble, France, and patented in 2014.
Did you have a question?
You can have one or the other. If you choose high bandwidth, you’re going to get very short distance because you can’t do serious error correction, etc. If you choose long range, you’re going to get low bandwidth because you need to include error correction, etc. In the transmissions.
In trying times you’re missing the big picture. If they were more commonplace, you’d have a decentralised communication network that can’t be shut down by the government.
And then they make it illegal to protect the terrorists
…for you.
I can see a use-case where a low-powered off-grid communication device can be useful.