The inability to distinguish between creation and creator. It is completely fine to like Harry Potter and still think that J.K.Rowling is nuts. You can dislike Dolly Parton’s songs and still appreciate her for the awesome human being she is.
The vast majority of people obviously can’t do that for some reason. It’s either “both creation and creator are shit” or “both are awesome” and nothing inbetween, to the point that some folks automatically assume you’re a climate change denier because you listen to Meatloaf, or do a 180° turn about liking/disliking movies, arts, novels etc. depending on what their authors did IRL. And don’t get me started on Nintendo fanboys … if you tell them you love the Zelda franchise but dislike Nintendo as a company, they’ll rip you apart because you’re obviously not allowed to have anything else but a single-track blanket opinion about literally everything they ever did.
If you like someone, you are not obligated to support each and every one of their actions, decisions or world views, and if you dislike someone you can (and should IMHO) still appreciate it if they do something good.
Someone else more less touched on this but I think you’re missing the point.
I don’t know a single person who thinks you can’t like someone’s art because you dislike the artist. Using your example, I have plenty of friends who grew up with Harry Potter and still absolutely love the series in many ways. However they also think JK Rowling is a piece of shit.
The problem lies in giving a platform to people who, at the very least outspokenly, espouse harmful views, and/or engage in harmful activities. So generally speaking, they tend to take some amount of issue (how much varies person to person) with people continuing to support works from them without some demonstration of change or betterment. In turn, most of us stop consuming their content wholesale, as we don’t want to support their actions or views by contributing to their platform and would prefer others do the same.
People like what you’re talking about exist, sure. I also think that demographic is nearly exclusively terminally online people, who tend to be quite a bit louder than your average person. Which in turn can skew how commonly held of an opinion something can seem to be.
terminally online
Mind if I steal that description? It’s perfect ♥
As for your comment; I am completely fine with people deciding for themselves that they no longer wish to engage with some creation because its creator sucks - that’s a personal choice and I can respect that decision easily.
What I don’t get are people who try to force that decision onto others, like going “…but the author is shit, so you HAVE to now hate literally everything they ever did, and if you don’t then you’re just as bad as them”. No, I don’t have to do anything of the sort - and that does not mean that I support the world views of the author. It only means that the world view of the creator hasn’t ruined the creation for me.
Oh I certainly did not coin that term, so steal away lol
But yeah I definitely get your point. I suppose my only real contention is that I don’t personally feel it’s as ubiquitous of an opinion as it sounds like you do.
That said, in the case of someone like Jk Rowling I will absolutely bring up the topic should she come up. I have quite a few trans friends, and she has and continues to actively take steps to attack and harm the trans community. Liking the art she has created is one thing, but supporting someone who seeks to invalidate the existence of people, particularly those I care about, and take away essential care is another. I probably won’t start a fight about it, unless you’re a real shit head, but I take no qualms with standing up about it either.
Quick edit to note that’s not directed at you, to be clear. More just continuing to make the distinction I was before.
Quick edit to note that’s not directed at you, to be clear.
No offense taken, don’t worry ;) And I fully agree … Rowling is a malicious, hateful, spiteful asshole and deserves all the hostility she gets online and IRL for what she said, did and still does. There are no two ways about it.
I don’t think you should be upset with someone for liking an artist’s work despite their personal life but I’ve definitely stopped listening to artists for theirs. I’ll be half way through the opening verse and remember “oh yeah, this dude’s a rapist” and don’t want to continue.
On the flip side, I know Jackie Chan has had his fair share of controversy…but I still love his films and on-screen persona.
but I’ve definitely stopped listening to artists for theirs.
That’s a personal choice, and I’m completely fine with that. If you can’t help but dislike a work of art because it always reminds you of the bad thing its creator did/said, there is no shame in no longer engaging with said art as it won’t bring you happiness anymore.
What I don’t get are people who go “waaah noo, how DARE you like that song! The singer is an asshole, you have to hate their music now!” … no, I don’t have to. And that does not automatically mean I am okay with what the singer did - it just means that their actions haven’t ruined the song for me.
If you pirate their art, I suppose you have a point.
But if you’re financially supporting folks who are actively opposed to your existence or the existence of people you care about, that’s pretty foolish.
Harry Potter is the only reason folks care about J.K. Rowling. However, her words outside of her books have influenced politics and have hurt marginalized folks.
Because she’s making money, she doesn’t care.
Until JK doesn’t make a dime from Harry Potter, your fandom of the IP will financially support her hateful views.
Pretty sure she’d still have those views, even if she was poor. I understand and respect people who decide to boycott certain creators for their political views and statements–I stopped buying Orson Scott Card’s books after finding out things he’d said about homosexuality among other things–but I don’t think people who oppose a creator’s views, but still choose to pay for their work should be shamed for it. When you pay for a product, you’re paying for that product and are thus supporting only what went into that product. I think there’s more of an issue of hypocrisy in people who have problems with Apple’s labor practices in China or their anti-consumer practices, but still buy their products, as those issues are directly linked to said products and therefore their money is inherently rewarding them (but, full disclosure: I’m one of those people, as I own an iPhone). If the Harry Potter books had some anti-trans message in them, that’d be one thing, but I don’t think that’s the case, is it (I honestly don’t know, as I haven’t read them)? I think people can still enjoy and financially support the HP IP without tacitly supporting JK Rowling’s politics, just as Tesla owners can enjoy their cars without supporting Elon’s whacky political views.
–I stopped buying Orson Scott Card’s books after finding out things he’d said
I stopped buying new copies of his stuff.
But to my mind, buying used doesn’t add support to him nor add to his wealth.
On the other hand, I stopped reading Dilbert because it became unfunny, not because Adams turned out to be a shitty person.
.
I am reminded of people in my parents generation who stopped listening to certain musicians because they were rumored to be gay…
(I honestly don’t know, as I haven’t read them)
No anti-LGBTIQ content in those books whatsoever. If they did have such a message, then I could understand people hating the author and the books, but as it is, the books do not reflect the world view of the author about this particular topic.
…and on the topic of supporting the author by buying the books (from a different comment); you can buy them secondhand. That way Rowling makes one less sale as secondhand shops, private sellers etc. don’t have to pay royalties to her.
Ok? So what If you already bought and read the books, does that mean you’ll have to throw them away, burn them, and you’re never ever allowed to enjoy the fictional story of Harry Potter ever again because the author is an ass…? Or that by liking the fictional story you automatically support her world view as well, finances aside?
It’s the exact thing I described. Yes J.K. Rowling is nuts but that does not mean that you have to hate the Harry Potter books / movies. You can hate the author for what she did and said independendly from the stories she wrote.
Keep the books, cherish 'em. I don’t care.
I’m just saying knowingly giving money to hateful people is where folks tend to draw the line. Some folks can still enjoy the art, some folks have their perception of the art tainted by the hateful ideologies of the artist.
You’re free to do as you wish, but some folks have trouble separating the art from the artist, and have valid concerns around consuming of art from hateful artists.
We’re all so bad at communicating and it is the bottleneck in most relationships, workplaces, and in politics.
We talk past each others when we argue. We’re bad at definining the stuff we argue and talk about. We’re bad at ignoring the pedantic stuff and focusing on the “spirit” of the argument.
At the workplace I feel the ability to share information to all the relevant parties without it being noisy has never been solved in big corporations. It is either a free-for-all situation where you’re expected to read hundred of emails, answer anyone anytime, go in tons of meeting, OR to work in complete silos where you only talk to a supervisor once in a blue moon.
In friendships you have people who talk but don’t listen and people who listen and don’t talk. Oversharers, bullshiters, people who can’t get to the point, people who gives 5 minutes of context and disordered information for every little things. Friends who mumble, or who don’t finish half their sentences.
In relationships we let unresolved issues become taboos, and we let petty stuff buildup because we can’t addresss it without anyone feeling attacked.
Communication is important, as you’ve already been told by a poster or an HR person, but I rarely see people actively try to better themselves in that area, nor the corporations I worked at. You won’t have anything durable without it, or anything capable of scaling efficiently.
I am probably very bad at it too, for the simple reason that virtually all the people I know are ever good at best at a few aspects of it. I am self-conscious about communicating properly but I too probably suck at it and I have my blind spots just like everyone else. For this reason, this is the thing I hate about everyone, we can’t communicate for shit and we don’t even realize it most of the time.
What’s most frustrating about it is that even when I try to help others see that this is the real cause of friction between us - that poor communication or misunderstanding is the real cause of our arguments, many if not most would still fight me that I’m wrong and they’re right and it’s like nobody wants to reach a solution, they’d rather forever spin in the accusations
I hate that many people idolise other people.
It’s possible to like some of the work of somebody without idolising them and blindly listening to or following absolutely everything they do.
That we all think we’re far more in control of ourselves than we are. Yes, including me. A person isn’t in charge of the self, even a majority. Not by a long shot. We’re the smartest monkeys in the room, but we’re still monkeys. None of us are fully rational robots, but a lot of us pretend we are.
I think irrationality is evidence of our control if anything. Animals are generally more rational than us (I say this as someone who hates people who worship rationality.)
I don’t think animals are completely emotionless, but a lot more of what other animals do can be explained by survival instinct than humans.
That in times of conflict, human nature, the default mindset of humans, is often used as a crutch like a medical condition would be, and that we simultaneously still consider ourselves persons as we define persons as members of the moral community, the same one we use human nature to excuse ourselves for violating.
The inefficiency. Why the fuck are we walking so goddamn slow? Why can’t you eat faster? Oh god, don’t make me watch you not use keyboard shortcuts. Why is everyone living like they want to be here in this goddamned line more than anything else in life?
Why the fuck are we walking so goddamn slow?
I also walk fast all the time but I am trying to be a little slower so I don’t get sweaty while going places. Maybe it’s like that for other people as well. What I don’t understand is why so many people seem to be completely oblivious to their surroundings and the way they block the path for other people.
Why can’t you eat faster?
Some people like to enjoy their food.
Oh god, don’t make me watch you not use keyboard shortcuts.
I can actually get behind this one.
Why is everyone living like they want to be here in this goddamned line more than anything else in life?
I’m unable to decypher what exactly you are complaining about here. What line are you talking about?
People slowly going about their lives in every manner instead of doing everything as quick as possible so you can get back home and be alone for longer.
for some folks that’s full power / max speed.
other folks are just happy to be out and about.
not my preferred way but I get that for some people it’s their reality.
Yes. This.
deleted by creator
We do not keep planets very well.
Mass hysteria/idiocy, like how easy it is for a crowd to drop logic and reason and be worked up into a frenzy because some populist/talking head/anonymous online account is telling them what to think or manipulating them with a bunch of half truths.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
The fallacy of the middle ground. This is where most ‘centrists’ fall.
That’s interesting, because I was going to say I hate how a lot of people are very susceptible to extremism and binary thinking.
Agreed, but some solutions have a fairly binary answer. Extremism is a huge problem, but that is part on centrists tolerating intolerance and not taking a stance. There is no middle ground for racist ideology. There is no room for it in society. The answer to “I believe the Jews should be exterminated” is simply opposing it, "Jewish people have a right to maintain and cultivate themselves and their culture. To put it simply, for someone who wishes complete death for the Jews, the answer is not the middle ground. You cannot compromise and say “how about we kill half a Jew only?”. This example is stupid and has lots of flaws, but I just came off of night shift.
There is no middle ground for racist ideology.
Perhaps, but what counts as an expression of “racist ideology?” It’s usually not as simple as the true extremists make it. Is a comedian making that tired old joke about how Black people fought to be able to sit at the front of the bus and now they all sit at the back racist? How’s about when a Black person cals a White person a cracker? What about when White people say the word removed when talking about the word historically? I work with the poor and mentally ill (therapist), and I have plenty of clients who have made generalized statements about the other racial groups they share their neighborhoods with, but they wouldn’t consider those statements racist, because in their experience they’re true, and they can’t be racist if they’re factual, right?
95% of the racist content out there is not so easy to discern and we as a society agree far less on it than our academics and news organizations suggest.
The hypocrisy of caring and Hallmark holidays.
Some calendar days were created by companies out to make money, others by organizations trying desperately to raise awareness for their worthwhile cause.
The end result is often the same, jump on the bandwagon for one day to be seen as doing good or being good, then hop off and return to business as usual.
There’s a calendar day coming up that every year makes my life worse. For one day a year, acquaintances ask me a question, don’t care about or listen to my answer, and then go back to ignoring me for another year. Oh but hurrah for them, they did the thing they normally wouldn’t because social media gives them warm fuzzies for announcing they did the thing. They don’t even remember the questions or answers, for them, it was a thing to do, instead of being a better caring person for the other 364 days.
Saturday, September 16th is Batman Day. And everyone asks “wouldn’t a billionaire help more by using his wealth than his fists?” right before they get the smack.
Apologies are always forced or insincere. Nobody finds themselves in the wrong on their own anymore.
Well there are those of us who just feel we’ve done the wrong thing all the time and practically apologise just for existing. Not that that’s better.
Not always, but most from the majority of public figures tend to be.
100%
I immediately gain respect for people who matter-of-factly admit when they’re wrong and apologize for doing or saying something that warrants an apology. I think it’s a sign of an emotionally mature and self-confident person. You don’t lose anything by admitting an error or fault, it fact you gain perspective and knowledge that helps you develop as a person, while giving credit to the person who knew the right thing. Everybody wins.
Can’t they just fucking read AND comprehend.
If people would not just read things but also use some brain power to comprehend the words they just read, then the world would be a few percentage points smarter overall.
Also while they are at it, observe the world you are living in. People ask stupid questions all the time because they don’t open their eyes and take in the world for a few seconds. “where is the bathroom?” As they ignore the sign. “What time does the bus come?” As they ignore the printed schedule. “How do you open this hatch?” As the arrows point to the handle.
I’ve honestly been astounded at how much of the population appears to be functionally illiterate. You tell them how to spell a url and they’re more likely to just hand you the phone because that’s hard.
I sometimes wonder if that’ll be what’s left - illiterate masses cared for by a few not-quite-dumb bastards that can work a can opener or read the instructions on the pump.
That they’re people…
Damn humans, they ruined humanity!
Their snot
