According to Hans-Kristian Arntzen, a prominent open-source developer working on Vkd3d, a DirectX 12 to Vulkan translation layer, Starfield is not interacting properly with graphics card drivers.
No, Todd Howard doesn’t make mistakes, you just have to buy a more expensive graphics card!
/s
Todd Howard doesn’t do what Todd Howard does for Todd Howard. Todd Howard does what Todd Howard does because Todd Howard is… Todd Howard.
The Todd Howardest.
He permits you to bathe in the light of his Todd Howardishness.
It’s actually just pee, but not just any pee, Todd fucking Howard’s pee
Totally unrelated but did you know there’s a promotion deal for AMD’s latest and greatest RX7000 GPUs?
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That’s false, the mistakes are part of the experience.
It just works.
No matter how expensive your Intel Arc GPU was, Starfield won’t run on it.
The Intel Arcs are really cheap though.
People figured out the performance issues with Starfield when it was first announced: the Bethesda logo
Creation Engine 2.0.
AKA Creation Engine 1.0 with more patches than a 1sqmi quilt.
aka Gamebryo
That’s the engine in which Creation Engine was based on, so what? Saying that name won’t somehow invalidate everything that was developed using the two engines or accomplish anything really. By your logic, we should call Source 2 engine the Quake engine
I know you say that as a joke but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Bethesda splash screen genuinely had some actual performance cost
Bethesda needs to start handing out checks to these people for fixing their fucking games dude
Maybe it’s their business model to have players fix the games for free?
Has been since Oblivion.
Morrowind has a massive unofficial patch/esp as well
And you know to some extent, having a community help you with your games and find bugs is beautiful and probably pretty fucking cool for devs. But the fact is that the business side of things continues to put a sour taste in all of our mouths, devs included.
I really hope AI and the like push game devs out of big businesses and into self employment. Of all the types of people, I want problem solvers to have that life the most.
AI is still pretty bad at writing code, and often makes up API calls that dont exist. I wouldnt get your hopes up just yet.
Oh I’m aware haha. However I do wanna point out how much of an improvement gpt4 is compared to 3.5. The improvements have been pretty awesome imo even if they do tweak the ways you have to word things.
Ik a lot of people bitch and moan about how bad it is but I’ve had nothing but luck after pivoting around and wording things differently, following different techniques. But I get not everyone likes adapting so much so it’s fine ig.
As far as coding goes though I’m not mad about it being ass. That’s prolly the last part we should get working real well considering the implications for abuse we face now without considering the ability for it to write infinite offspring… :)
Black mirror should do an entire season on AI imo I think it would fucking kill
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You have completely misinterpreted what I said.
I specifically said self employed which does not mean:
- unemployed
- making less than what they were
- are in any way disappointed with the decision to work from home, on their own terms and rules.
Weirdo capitalist begone.
being ‘pushed out of big businesses’ because a machine can do the same work for cheaper generally doesnt come with connotations of a stronger position to negotiate for the actual workers
Weirdo capitalist begone
lol
Who was talking about automation?
I didn’t say pushed out by big business, is said out of. Meaning, they had some form of motivation which was strong enough to move them out of big business dude.
Why are you picking a fight with someone who literally is wishing the best for devs lmao.
im not picking a fight
you said i misinterpreted your comment, i read it back and deleted my original comment, and explained where the misinterpretation came from
They owe them quite a lot…
WHAT DID YOU SAY
Honestly, those Unofficial Patch mods for Skyrim and Fallout are amazing.
People actually need to stop doing Bethesda’s work for them. Release after release they just push out buggy and unfinished product and community fixes it for them while they somehow take credit. FO76 was a huge mess exactly because people couldn’t fix it. Bethesda is bad, and people need to see it as such. Paying full price for their products is downright insulting.
I think if they would just price the games more fairly and in accordance with how the game actually plays then that’d be a different story.
Why would they. Corporations are always most amount of money for least amount of work. Bethesda is lucky, people claim they love their games after community patches them. So they pay full price and never finish anything.
I’ll play in a year after most of the bug and performance issues are fixed. Which seems like my typical response to any major game release these days; just wait a few months at first.
Plus you’ll get to see if they add all the post-launch microtransactions like games are starting to do these days.
Launch to good reviews, and THEN rebalance and force players towards transactions and paid currencies.
Yup… dodged Diablo 4 by doing this.
Kinda sad about it though, really enjoyed Diablo II back in the day. Really miss the days when the name Blizzard meant guaranteed quality.
The silver lining here is that now when you see Blizzard, you know to avoid it no matter what.
Plus Plus you can get it on sale.
Yea, it’s maddening.
Even before release I figured I’d wait for a sale. Too many good games just came out I want more, big backlog of Yakuza games I recently started and got totally hooked on. Not interested in helping standardize $70 games, will wait for a sale, and by then there will be a better mod scene too. Less money for a better game, win/win.
Ah, I see your a r/patientgamers fan too =)
I’ve played it a little on Xbox since it’s on gamepass and I haven’t encountered any bugs, other than a single game crash. Is the PC release significantly worse than console?
Doesn’t feel revolutionary but I’m enjoying it. Created Amos Burton and it’s a pretty fun playthru so far.
Edit: Okay so let me correct that to replicatible crashes after xbox captures (both screenshots and recordings).
I’ve had 0 hard crashes but a few soft crashes since entering the final stretch of the MSQ. Sarah and Walter are stuck “talking” to each other permanently despite Sarah being in my ship and Walter the lodge. And if I try to talk to either of them the game locks up whenever it’s time for the other npc to chime in and I have to reload. I also had a random soft crash where I couldn’t enter the lodge from new Atlantis no matter what I did until I restarted the .exe(I’m thinking it’s related to the convos bug I’m experiencing). Also the weird movement bugs like someone walking away from you during a convo or crew members floating in or through random places in my ship. Also have a flashing texture issue for a few seconds after accessing the inventories in the armory ship habs.
Outside that I’m getting 50-70 fps with mostly high settings at 1080p.
The issues are way overblown. I have a mid tier system as best (2070S 8700k) and with the DLSS mod and some performance tweaks I play on Ultra.
Edit: down vote all you want losers you’re still wrong.
The issues are way overblown. I just bought a new car and with brand new tires and a few tweaks from my local repair shop I can go the speed limit now.
How is a 2070S equivalent to a new car?
I love Starfield and has been playing it every day since launch. It runs like dogshit. Sure it doesn’t stutter or anything but I can’t, for the life of me, get the average FPS in outdoor areas to be anything higher than 70. 5800X + 3080 Ti. It doesn’t matter how much I lower the setting, the CPU overhead is crazy.
so it does not stutter or anything and it does run on an average of 70fps outside and in taxing environments and you are describing this as dogshit?
lol. no further questions.
Give it up mate, even the first rudimentary workaround more than doubled the FPS people have been getting. https://linustechtips.com/topic/1530726-starfield-now-runs-twice-as-fast-on-linux-compared-to-windows/
I won’t click on a LinusTechTip Link 😀
And I dont say the game could be better optimised, but to say that a stutter-free expierence with an average of 70 fps is “runing like dogshit” is some kind of special. Could it be better, yes, is it running like dogshit, nope.
🤦 So you’ll just continue to ignore overwhelming evidence and get defensive. It’s ironic you’d call them special.
70 fps on average without any kind of wrong framepacing or stuttering is not “running like dogshit”, thats my whole point, “mate”. If the the game would run with 30 fps and crazy frame spikes on modern hardware I would agree but to call a >60fps stutterfree expierence that is just supid, on every game.
If I set the resolution to 1024x768 and the graphics to Low but the FPS is still the same, something is wrong.
That just means the bottleneck isn’t graphics rendering.
it seems the current meta is to hate on starfield at the moment. I would suggest to keep playing and enjoying the game if you do and not to post about it.
I will wait regardless.
only issue I see with the game at the moment is that they did not use those fly/land/dock sequences to mask the loading times. I think that would enhance the experience a lot
It really would have. Considering that my loading screens are scarcely longer than those sequences anyway it could have, should have been nearly seamless.
are you on pc? Normally my loading screens last about 2-3 seconds, which is really short and a reason that I dont mind them that much
I think that’s what he means, he could load faster if the animation didn’t exist and instead of using the time for the animation to load, you get the animation then a loading screen.
Exactly it almost seems like that was the plan and then something went wrong and they couldn’t fix it in time
As usual, it takes free labor for Bethesda to get their shit working the way it’s supposed to. What a garbage developer.
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Well written? Bethesda?
I mean sure their games are fun, but they’re not particularly good by any measure.
Hey now. Morrowind was beautifully written.
Then by Oblivion they cheapened out and used AI to start generating the map and dungeons.There’s a lot of interesting world building and history to draw upon, it’s just a shame Bethesda doesn’t do that.
You’re never really presented with moral choices. The story never really has you think about things. There’s a tonne of lore books and tapes and what have yous that spill a rich tapestry of stories at you, but you’re never really shown any of it. I’ve had fun with Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Skyrim, and to a lesser extent Fallout 4, but at this point I’m kind of tired of it. They’re all the same game. They have the same floaty combat. The same lacklustre storytelling. The same awkward “talk at you” conversations.
Been there, done that.
Oblivion being developed with AI driven layouts is a hilarious supposition. It was 2002 dawg.
Oblivion was 2006, Morrowind was 2002.
Regardless, your point still stands.
No it doesn’t.
Morrowind’s entire map was hand made. All of its quests were hand made.
Starting with Oblivion, they moved to make most of the map and quests automatically with minimal human intervention.
To the point that they admitted it was too much for the tech at the time and actually hurt the gameplay, and pulled back for Skyrim, using a mix of computer made and human made content, adding in the radiant quest system in an attempt.to make the gameplay “endless”.
The modern thing we call AI is just the chatbots from a decade prior with improved processing power and vastly larger data sets to work with. The tech in those chatbots had been working in various pieces for a decade before that.
Yeah when people tell me that Fallout or Skyrim are “well written” I know that they don’t read.
what does this even mean? “sure they’re fun” and also “not particularly good by any measure” are conflicting statements
Fast food can be delicious and filling, but it’s not good food.
Bethesda makes the game equivalent to fast food. Specifically instant ramen. You can tweak instant ramen, add veggies, eggs, meat, seasonings, etc. and transform it into something new. It’s still instant ramen, but it’s different.
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Fast food can be delicious and filling, but it’s not good food.
this is a completely different argument. Fast food is “good by any measure” because it’s good by the measure of delicious and of filling. It doesn’t make sense to complement something and then say it’s not good in any aspect.
Biodome with Pauly Shore is one of my favorite movies. I have fun every time i watch it. It’s not a “good” movie.
isn’t it “good” by the measure of it being your favorite?
I would like to add Hook to this list. I was flabbergasted when, as an adult, found out it was poorly received. Then I rewatched it as an adult and was forced to agree. Still one of my favorites.
E.G. Fallout 4 is fantastic exploration.
It’s best gameplay is when your ignore the plot entirely and create your own story.
Same with Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Oblivion.
The actual main plots are simplistic, boring and oddly quick. Weirdly, each of the games has an expansion that has a well done quest line, so its not that they can’t do it, they choose to not do it.
Better than Larian and Fromsoft by a country mile
So many PS5 owners in the comments today
I’m gonna go back to enjoying Starfield
I’m not sure what this means. Is the game not on PS5?
You’re absolutely free to enjoy the game. Like I mentioned in the comments, Bethesda’s game is like instant ramen. It can definitely be delicious and enjoyable, but it’s not good/healthy food.
Lmao, bruh you haven’t played the game … slow it down on the haterade, it’s not good for ya
Bye, go collect your trinkets
Thanks for admitting you’re just a butt hurt hater
It does not matter how extensive the lore, character design and world building is if the fucking game runs like shit and crashes. The game being in a playable state is the bare minimum.
Its like a chef spending hours decorating a dish made with spoiled raw chicken.
Bethesda is sub-par in just about every aspect of game development. Shallow combat. Basic dialogue trees. Skill/feats haven’t evolved in several games. Engine so old it has to have loading screens for every type of transition.
But you picked the story and acting to tout as good? Bethesda is well-known to have pathetically bad main-story arcs. Only a handful of side quests end up being engaging to most people. The face animations are…better now but still deeply in the uncanny valley. Their acting is usually deadpan with only the merest speck of emotion and shown as if the actor is reading their script for the first time during recording.
Honestly the main thing that Bethesda games have going for them are a detailed, hand-crafted world that is fun to explore and experiment in. Which…Bethesda handily disposed of to have the majority of its world and worlds be procedurally generated.
Wow, so informed you are, you are talking of Starfield right?
You wouldn’t happen to just be talking out of your ass trying to make broad generalizations about games made 20 years apart to try and cast shade on a game you’ve never played would you?
This comment doesn’t actually say anything. It’s just casting aspirations against me because you didn’t like what I said. It doesn’t rebut anything or offer differing opinions on anything I proposed.
I’m not sure I’d give them well acted. The characters feel like puppets when they are talking. Maybe I’m just spoiled by BG3…
I wonder if this has anything to do with not being able to load my saves. I went to mars and exited the game after a long gaming session. Came back the next day and I get a full system crash upon trying to load the exit save. Tried the autosaves, same deal. Tried my last normal save, same deal. Every once in about 5-6 full system crashes I can reload one of the saves from just landing on mars but if I try to enter caledonia then it’s a full system crash. It’s weird too, I can still hear the game running in a loop but I can tell there is no input and the graphics fully fail. Very frustrating. I finally got back to my main rig to be able to play and the game has just been straight not playable since about the day after it came out. Can’t even get a hotfix from Bethesda. Bummer. I’ll just have to wait to play it again. I’m not going to restart a new character just to run into the same thing.
The crash on loading has bricked two of my characters now. I don’t think I can be bothered again till they patch. One bricked in mars, the second bricked before I made it there. Waste io many hours.
That’s where I’m at. I’m excited to be able to play again but I have to wait for however long it takes them to release a patch addressing this. I’m not mad about anything I’ve seen. But I literally can’t play a game that I can’t trust to save and be reloaded.
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I had the same problem, this vkd3d update fixed it. But had to run it with lutris where i can select the vkd3d version manually.
Are you playing on PC/Steam? Something weird happened to me yesterday where an exit save wouldn’t load. Upon trying an earlier save, I found none would load (game crashed to desktop when selecting). I could not figure it out.
On a whim I verified files in Steam, which triggered a 30 MB update. After verification, my exit save worked fine. I’m at a loss for why core files would change.
Yup, steam with a Ryzen 5600x and rx 6800xt. I’ve tried verifying the game files a couple times. I’ll give it another go in a bit. I’d love for there to be a change but I think I’m in that weird category that should work fine but it’s just borked. The game ran great otherwise. Just trying to load saves and on the one attempt that actually works if I try to enter Caledonia it’s an automatic I have to reboot my system.
Looks like Hans implemented a workaround in vkd3d-proton 2.10, using the open-source AMD vulkan driver on linux (RADV).
Device generated commands for compute
With
NV_device_generated_commands_computewe can efficiently implement Starfield’s use of ExecuteIndirect which hammers multi-dispatch COMPUTE + root parameter changes. Previously, we would rely on a very slow workaround.NOTE: This feature is currently only enabled on RADV due to driver issues.
I don’t imagine it will take long for this to make its way into a Proton experimental release. Folks with AMD graphics who are comfortable with linux might want to give it a try.
I preferred the Little Mermaid, the Ugly Duckling, and of course the Emperor’s New Groove, but his commentary on graphics in Starfield is also a compelling work.
Why hasn’t emperor’s new groove gotten a remake yet tho
Not safe enough. Give it another decade; I’m sure they’ll get around to ruining it by then.
Do we know for sure that the Starfield devs weren’t able to figure out the problems with performance? I find often with companies, the larger they are, the more bureaucracy there is, and the more prioritization of tickets becomes this huge deal, where you even end up having meetings about how to prioritize tickets etc.
I would be surprised if the devs didn’t know what was wrong already, I think it’s more likely that management and higherups doesn’t care about them fixing it right now.
Game devs have many teams all with different jobs, for a big game like this you’d typically have multiple teams dedicated to optimization in different areas (and between them). The specific problem in this case was how the game was communicating with graphics drivers (among others), which for any graphics heavy game is very fundamental to performance optimization. The problems aren’t even an after-the-fact optimization sort of thing that teams should have to identify and follow-up on, batching jobs is standard practice when interacting with GPUs whether or not there’s a translation layer.
When the devs of a core translation API between two supported graphics drivers that are commonplace in the gaming ecosystem have to write code to specifically fix issues with your application you’ve done something fundamentally wrong.
A lot of posts like these also seem to imply that the open source community should somehow be less competent than these companies and are surprised that the open source community can fix these issues. But the open source community has a ton of very respectable and extremely smart developers, it shouldn’t be any surprise really.
To be even more direct: there’s a huge overlap between the circles of “works in software dev” and “contributes to open source projects”.
I really try to do different things at home than work, but I’ve definitely contributed fixes to game mods (why do so many modders fail to do null checks before trying to interact with short lived shit like projectiles?) and open source software I’ve needed to do stuff.
developer working on Vkd3d
I.e. graphics driver developer. Listen what he says, Bethesda, not many driver developers will point out where gavemdevs act stupid.
I’m amazed that Bethesda has one of the premier game developers in their stead in id Software and didn’t bother to just use their shit. Instead they actively chased their staff away.
Bethesda the publisher and Bethesda the developer are different things.
The publishing arm seemed to know what they were doing, certainly enough for MS to buy them.
The developing arm is nothing if not consistent. You know what you’re getting into. An RPG, with lots of character build possibilities (even if a particular build overpowered enough for 90% of players to accidentally stumble across it, like Skyrim’s stealth archer build), a handful of memorable NPCs, no real character development, so-so performance, and a shitload of bugs.
If people are still buying them and still not enjoying them I don’t know what to say. It’s like watching Fast and Furious 10, and going “well that’s fucking dumb”.
I saw the ending of the last F&F by mistake (they sold us tickets for a movie that started an hour later), and let me tell you - that was fucking dumb.
I watched the first one many years ago, which appeared to just be Ocean’s 11, but for people who think putting blue lights under your car makes it go faster.
Then I watched F&F9 on Netflix the other month. I don’t remember any of the plot. At one point a car did a Tarzan rope swing.
Oh god, what? I haven’t seen any since the first either, was the movie fun enough to make it worth watching the series of them?
Given that I remember none of it, I’ll give it a resounding no.
Save yourself many hours of wondering what the fuck you’re doing with your life and just watch that one scene on YouTube.
ID and Bethesda Softworks and both using different custom, proprietary engines. Retraining your entire studio on a new engine is extremely time consuming, especially if it’s a custom engine with limited learning materials, like ID tech. There’s a big cost/benefit analysis there, and frankly, if Bethesda ever did switch engines, I think they’d be more likely to go with Unreal for this reason. Current staff, and certainly new hires, are much more likely to be familiar with it.
I wish they had gone with Ue5. The game would look better and perform better.
Nah, Bethesda will just do the same as they did with the Creation Engine. Let the community patch their crap and never fix it.
It’s shitty but at the same time, if people are gonna do it anyway… idk it’s tacky and the audacity to slap a $70+ price tag on the thing? Fuck that
Just wish they would have incorporated the fixes into the game engine at some point. I bet some of the devs would have even signed away the code for free or at least very cheap. It was annoying not being able to use mods to fix bugs in Fallout 76 that were patched in Fallout and Elder Scrolls games some as far back as Morrowind. Sure they were mostly rare like being able to get pushed into the void behind what should have been solid meshes and the game engine seeming not to care as you fall endlessly or it crashed.
Link to arntzen’s technical description. https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/pull/1694
I’m so glad steam hired this guy cause if he was doing this sh*t to cover slack for Bethesda and the huge publishers all for just a personal side project I would lose any hope I had for humanity.
I’m eagerly awaiting the radio silence from all the people blaming it on obsolete hardware lol
Overall I like the game though, it has a lot of very entertaining ideas.
It’s clearly not due to obsolete hardware. Not getting 60fps in New Atlantis while playing on a beast with 50-70% usage max points to optimization issues.
I honestly don’t know why those people think it’s hardwareOh it’s because Todd Howard said so
I dont understand how this is even an argument dude, bethesda has the worst reputation for this stuff. Literally every game they have released has been buggy as shit with terrible performance, but for some reason people just handwave it and say “its a bethesda game” when did they get so brainwashed, why is it acceptable for them??
Yeah, exactly. I’m getting tired of this too. Even with all of the evidence in the world that this issue is halving game performance people are still dismissing it. $1000 dollars worth of performance I paid for down the drain and yet “a smooth 60 FPS” is enough justification for people.
It’s like if somebody sold you a full-priced V8 that had 4 of the cylinders not firing and your peers telling you to deal with it because “at least it runs”.
It blows my mind how critical everyone was of Cyberpunk, despite it running fairly well on PC especially a few weeks after release, and how much of a pass everyone gives Starfield.
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I mean people are trying to say it’s another FO76. It’s not even remotely close to another FO76.
You’re just taking the claim of some random guy and a website at face value though.
It’s not just “some guy”, it’s a translation layer developer posting all of his findings on his git: https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton/commit/88e4f300cc0b5b6f0880c1233d562cf506b546fb
It’s also verified by Proton users noting a marked increase in performance with just a code commit. I’d urge anyone not to listen to this troll and go have a look.
This really isn’t a good take when the “random guy” has provided proof, open source code demonstrating, and a relatively easy way to verify his claims (using his code).
It’s all there out in the open if anyone has specific counter points, and this type of thing isn’t an unusual situation with Bethesda developed games, or games on this engine.
