For context, I’m circumcised and expecting a son and my wife and I are torn about the circ. We’re American so from a cultural standpoint circumcision is the default choice. Thing is, there’s no real benefit besides practicing a religion we don’t believe in, and I’m uncomfortable about cutting the tip of my son’s dick off.
On the other side, I’ve met a guy who was bullied in high school so bad for it he got a circ as an adult. Apparently crazy painful recovery. I’ve also talked to women who are generally grossed out by uncircumcised men. I don’t want to make him feel like something’s wrong with him his whole life because I was uncomfortable with the idea.
From a moral standpoint I’m against it, but from a social and cultural standpoint I feel like I should do it? It’s a crappy situation. If there’s any uncircumcised American men who want to talk about their penis I’m all ears.
Edit: I really appreciate everyone’s responses I never expected to hear from so many people. With the decision hinging on social and cultural norms it’s been really helpful to be able to take the temperature like this. I obviously need to talk to my wife, but given the overwhelming support of dick hats I don’t thing we’re going to do it. Thanks, lemmings!
Male circumcision is genital mutilation.
If it’s your culture, your culture is dumb.
Except it has more upsides than downsides. In fact, except for extreme outliers there are no downsides. Not once in my life had I ever thought “I wish my parents would have not circumcised me as a baby”. From a US perspective, I think it looks better, most women think it looks better, and it saved me from cost, pain, and awkward teen years of waiting until adulthood to make the decision.
OP, you said it yourself, really. You aren’t unhappy to be circumcised. You know at least one guy in real life who hated not being circumcised. Do you know anyone in real life; not the internet where people with negative outlooks on an issue tend to be the most outspoken, and not from all the other countries with different cultures and norms, but that you actually know that was mad about being circumcised? I work in a field that’s very… Not shy about bringing up things like this. I’ve never met a guy who wished he wasn’t circumcised.
Nanook can go ahead and call it mutilation, trying to lump it in with a dangerous and sexual pleasure ruining practice done to women in a handful of places, but I’ll hard disagree. Mutilation is “a severe and disfiguring injury.” I don’t see circumcised as any of that, and neither do most people where OP or myself are from.
There is like, no upside its literally you making up reasons to justify your condition lol.
You’re doing the same thing, but hey, we can both start throwing links at each other to back up our points, if you’d like.
But you know what, lets just say for the sake of argument neither dick has any medical or hygiene or STI risk differences (because there’s loads of evidence showing uncircumcised people are at a greater risk of getting those)
I think it looks better, and most people in my country think it looks better. Personal preference? Sure. But personally, we got better looking dicks. The other medical benefits are just a bonus.
You’re not going to bring up the sensitivity arguments? Foreskin is a natural part of the body, the fact that it’s the norm is meaningless. If we were chopping off the tips of ears or male nipples would there be “no downsides” either? Why not just NOT do the thing? You can’t undo a circumcision.
Sensitivity arguments? Go check Google search trends and tell me if the searches for guys trying to last longer is larger than the searches for lasting too long.
Sure buddy, go play with your half dick
Smegma
Imagine arguing “I’m a child who can’t clean his own body” in public to justify mutilating children so their genitals are prettier
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The infection risk only becomes an issue when you’re old. I’m getting circumcised at 70, I’m keeping my dick whole until then. Your dick looks ugly, sorry not sorry.
Also, I’m happy you like your dick, I’m sure you’d also like it if your parents didn’t remove a piece.
I don’t know who told you it was only a risk when you’re old, but that isn’t true at all.
Something tells me this guy could talk about dicks all night slong.
Something tells me this guy could talk about dicks all night slong.
All night schlong XD
There are a number of men who are upset about it, they’ve formed advocacy groups and some use therapies and procedures to regrow foreskin.
https://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/
For some balance, this isn’t very informative, but it does fairly frame the debate:
I mean, there’s groups for everything. If just 1% of men in the US were unhappy about having been circumcised, while the other 99% were happy or indifferent about it, that’s still over a million people unhappy. It’s still a super minority of people.
If any other elective medical procedure had a 1% chance of extreme regret, it would be considered psychologically risky, in addition to the chance of complications.
Do we know the actual numbers for how men feel about the procedure? I think that’s important if we’re debating this on the merits of joy/regret.
I couldn’t find any good sources that surveyed adult men on their parents’ circumcision choice.
No.
You are wrong.
There are literally 0 upsides.
There are 0 medically valid reasons to fully or partially circumsize a penis that is not suffering from some kind of rather rare, actual congenital malformation.
The only things you list as upsides are aesthetic, fashion choices, they’re only ‘popular’ where you are … because they are common where you are.
It literally is a disfiguring injury.
It signifcantly changes how the thing looks, and works. Thats disfigurement.
No, it is not as severe as female clitoral removal.
But, the foreskin has a ton of nerve density in it, comparable to how many nerves your head/glans has in it, as opposed to the significantly lower nerve density on a cut shaft.
A circumcised XY male person literally is not physically capable of experiencing the same level and variation of sensation, of sexual pleasure, as an uncircumcised person.
It also removes the ability of the penis to ‘glide’ along the foreskin when inserted, which means it changes how it functions.
Automatic male circumcision at birth is literally a brutal, nonconsensual method of reducing the pleasure an XY man can experience from sex.
Thats what it is.
Thats a cultural norm in the US, mainly, and not so much anywhere else.
For the record:
Circumsized guy here, done at birth, then, I learned things.
The US is a brutal and delusion place by the standards of basically everywhere else.
We are the weird ones, we are the brainwashed ones.
We just happen to also make the most porn, and we invented the internet, so our cultural norms have had an outsized importance and level of influence.
Outside of the US, male circumcision is generally only done by fairly extreme religious groups, and for very rare but actually medically necesssary and valid reasons, like some kind of actual congenital abnormality/malformation of the penis that is present at birth.
You say their are literally 0 upsides, but then you name a couple of upsides. Lol.
Also, if you want to be a dick about it, there have been several scientific studies done showing that HIV and most other STI’s are significantly less at risk of contraction if you’ve been circumcised.
You realise people can scroll up and read what he said?
Outside very rare medical conditions, circumcision has zero medical benefit.
Several studies have proven circumcisions significantly reduce the risk of getting an STI, including HIV, during sex.
Don’t do it. Let your kid choose as an adult. You can’t undo circumcision.
This.
Regardless of the up and downsides respectively, it should be the penis owner himself to decide.
Dude I have a foreskin and it’s fucking rad. I can pinch it closed when I pee and it’ll fill up like a balloon. How could you deny your son that?
Can’t argue with that
Lmao love all this genuine life advice and you say nothing, one dude shows up and is like "I get to play with my dick like this and you’re 100% in hell yeah territory.
Rad.
It’s more relatable than some moral position hah
I feel seen
There’s also this wonderful comment about memories of playing “peek-a-boo” in the bathtub.
It’s important to take time to enjoy the simple things in life.
Can confirm
You can’t be bullied if everyone is uncut. And as you say it’s cultural, it makes absolutely no sense for me and I don’t understand parents who voluntarily butcher the genitals of their children. I can’t believe it still exists.
I had a “friend” in highschool try to make me feel bad about being uncut. Saying the typical pseudoscience of “you’re dirty” “girls don’t like it”, it was that day that I decided this guy was stupid beyond repair.
It still exists because people with circumcisions see it as an improvement. It’s better.
You may like it better, and it should be your choice to have it. It should be an elective procedure for the individual to make, that’s all I believe they are saying.
I’m glad I didn’t have to go through 18 years before paying to have it done and being in pain from the surgery.
Okay, but your experience isn’t universal. Some people may and some people may not have preferred to have it done as a baby when viewed in hindsight, but it doesn’t change that their individual choice was removed.
It isn’t universal, but in my country it’s the majority.
Because it was thought that it would prevent the moral danger of masturbation by the guy who made Kellogg cereals a thing.
That’s it.
Sole reason.
Good job simping for the dude that thought it you never pooped and only had colonics you’d live forever.
Who cares how it started? It looks better, women generally like it more, and it makes you less likely to get an STI.
I’m uncut and went through my childhood and teenage years in the US. No one cared in preschool, and no one cared in the Highschool locker room, none of the women I slept with cared. It might be painful as an adult to do, but it’s a choice the person gets to make for themselves. I am grateful my parents stopped the doctors from cutting.
It’s painful regardless, the baby just can’t complain about it. I’m not circumcised nor are my kids, with the first kid, the nurse let out an unintentional “good” after we said no to it.
Frankly, it’s a bloody weird thing to do unless medically required. Leave him be.
Don’t mutilate your kid. If there’s a medical reason go ahead, otherwise leave it be.
Your son can’t put it back if you remove it, but he can remove it if you leave it. Let it be his choice over his body.Parents who perform unnecessary surgery on their children because society says they should are bad parents.
That might seem harsh, but it’s true. You have a responsibility to make the right choices for your kids, and “society” doesn’t get a vote.
I faced the same question, but found it to be a no-brainer. You don’t perform unnecessary surgery on a baby.
The reason it is performed in the US is to stop boys from masturbating.
Ignore any excuses for doing it that people have come up with since. That’s the only reason the US started doing it, and every other reason is just people trying to rationalize why they keep doing it.
The “reasons” people come up with to explain it now are based on extremely unlikely events. All the serious issues that come up are avoided with proper hygiene. Unless they still have a stupid masturbation hangup, it all comes down to this:
Parents feel icky about having to explain to their child how to wash their penis.
If you can’t handle that, I’ll tell you right now that you’re going to have a hell of a lot tougher conversations.
What I told them was to imagine they were wearing a hoodie in the shower. You’d need to pull the hood back before shampooing your hair. Same thing goes for the little head, but don’t use shampoo, that might burn.
Not circumcising my kids only caused me one problem:
My mom reacted like it was a direct personal attack on her, because I was circumcised. She saw it as me saying she was wrong. I found it difficult to convince her that I was not judging her. She didn’t have the same information available to her as I did. When I was born, she didn’t really have a choice.
Parents who perform unnecessary surgery on their children because society says they should are bad parents.
That’s me you’re talking about. And yes. I agree 100%.
Letting them do an elective surgery on my healthy child was a parenting failure I deeply regret.
The other reality of being a parent is that regret comes with the job.
You try to do the best you can do, and you deal with your mistakes as best you can. None of us is perfect.
I was talking to a work colleague about how I was agonizing over mistakes I made. He said if I’m concerned about my mistakes, then I’m doing ok. He said his parents never thought they made any mistakes or they didn’t care if they did. His attitude was if you’re trying, you’re a good parent.
Of course, I didn’t stop agonizing over my mistakes. After all, what does he know? He had shitty parents!
He said if I’m concerned about my mistakes, then I’m doing ok.
That’s helpful to hear. Thank you for sharing it.
Of course, I didn’t stop agonizing over my mistakes. After all, what does he know? He had shitty parents!
Haha. Yes.
but don’t use shampoo, that might burn.
Eh?? If your shampoo burns you shouldn’t be using it anywhere on your body.
And actually, I find non-soap-based products (e.g. shampoo) better for my bellend.
How does it stop boys from masturbating?
Covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success. A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an anaesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.
John Harvey Kellogg - Plain Facts for Old and Young
He got around. I keep hearing of things related to him and a lot of it’s not great. I’m skeptical of it working well but nice quote
I’m also skeptical the cultural reasons for circumcision have much to do stopping masturbation or Kellogg when I look at a map of where it’s practiced:
And surprised that map doesn’t line up with this one:
I guess it’s probably the abrahamic religions:
My bad
It’s primarily a Jewish and Muslim thing. Christianity doesn’t really require it.
True, and if you kind of remove the Muslim map from the circumcision map I think you’re roughly left with the US, Canada and Australia. I originally thought British colonies, but a lot of the commonwealth doesn’t circumcise much. It’s not even British colonies that are still christian, since the UK doesn’t seem to circumcise much.
Anyway, I wonder why it’s these non-Muslim countries. I don’t think the Kellogg-masturbation narrative would have had that strong a hold in Australia, but I’ve been wrong a lot before
Almost a perfect match, with the addition of the US.
Not quite:
https://mander.xyz/comment/22680300
And I’m not confident that their aren’t more that I’m missing in a quick scan
Horrifying.
It doesn’t
It doesn’t.
No sane beings cut off parts of their children as part of a retarded ancient ritual. Let alone part of the genitals; unfathomable perversion.
Pardon my French, this angers me.
Edit: Oh, and pro tip: Mutilating children leads to antisocial behavior.
A few counterpoints to the circumcision pros that you mentioned:
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Circumcision rates are dropping across America. In some areas they ared dropping faster than others, but from what I recall the get are basically dropping everywhere to some degree. So I expect bullying about it is on the decline as it becomes less common.
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Also, the simple fact is that bullies will find any reason to be shitheads. So if it’s not circumcision it’ll be something else.
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Any straight women who are grossed out by a natural penis are idiots, and your kid will be dodging an asshole bullet if they do reject him over that.
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Better to let him decide if he wants to get it cut later or leave it uncut than to take away his free agency.
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Don’t mutilate your child. Just remember to teach them to retract the foreskin and wash under it, by the time they are 10, it should be unfused from the glans.
I dont remember having to do anything special. Its just separated, there is plenty of it lol.
It’s mainly about teaching hygiene.
The idea of wanting a circumcision has never once occurred to me. The notion of having my most sensitive area permanently exposed… eugh.
The idea that you would cut off a part of your kids genitalia just so they could ‘fit in’ culturally is kinda blown away by the fact that it is now less common to be circumcised than being natural, even in the USA. By the time your kid is old enough to care, it will be a complete non-issue, and they can always get one as an adult if they want. Don’t take that agency away.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/pediatrics/generalpediatrics/117464
The idea that it has a population-level health benefit is completely debunked. It is medically advisable in only a tiny fraction of kids (sub 1%). The fact that %60 of the US population is circumcised is all thanks to religious hooey from puritans who don’t want children to masturbate, and think chopping a sensitive part of their genitals off to make it harder to enjoy is the best way to go - thanks to education and a wider exposure to the rest of the world via the Internet, US parents are finally realising this which is why it’s in decline.
I’m a chick, responding because you mentioned some women are grossed out by intact dicks.
Every penis is different in its own weird way so whether there’s foreskin or not is just an extra thing. Size/shape/foreskin/existence doesn’t affect how I think about the person.
Any person who thinks men ought to be mutilated to be attractive is lacking in empathy and judgment, and my entire friend group thinks the same thing.
Definitely not but I’m not American.
Please do not mutilate your child because of tradition.
