• for_some_delta@beehaw.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 days ago

    The aim is to establish communal horizontal power while living under existing power structures. An example is bringing neighbors the excess fruit from a harvest. The practice is common in rural communities. The magic is cooperation and mutualism. No bosses required.

    • lemonwood@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      2 days ago

      Yes, but there are bosses right now. And they would still be very powerful, even if they lost control of the state. They don’t care about what’s best for everyone. They care about what’s best for them. They would still control all those machines, institutions, money, private armies, the media and they would have the total support of all the capitalist militaries of the world, ready to come in and completely crush horizontal power and suppress mutualism. So the class of bosses wouldn’t magically disappear over night.

      If people organized (either “horizontally” or otherwise) to form some thing, some kind of organization or institution or loose federation of grassroots cooperatives or whatever you want to call it, that would be able to suppress this boss class and their military and everything. That thing would be what marxist leninists call a state by definition. Because when we talk about a state, we mean nothing more or less than a weapon able to force the will of one class upon another. Even if that will is just:“stop forcing your will on us non-bosses”. How horizontal it is internally dosn’t matter at all for the definition of a state.

  • pineapple@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    8
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    This seams contradictory. Isn’t communism also supposed to be stateless?

    Edit: Oh nvm you mean the socialist transition.

  • Mangoholic@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    15
    ·
    2 days ago

    I say try both, enough states to try, cooperate and well see which is better. People died for worst experiments. Also anything more left is better than the current system.

  • shneancy@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    17
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    3 days ago

    idea: we do the whole leftist infighting thing after we win against the common enemy, deal?

  • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    2 days ago

    Nation states, power, fiat currencies, religions, borders constitutions and laws are just games we play in our heads. A tally stick doesn’t work anymore as a measure of value. Kings are dethroned. Old ideas are replaced with new ones (for better or worse)

    We make these thoughts in our heads real, but they dont exist unless we make it so. We actually could wish this all away as though a spell was cast. Magic as you say.

    People are to busy trying to make life happen or are to invested in their favorite flavor of boot polish to think of a new way to live our lives unfortunately.

    Fine by me. I got a vasectomy. I didn’t force a kid to play y’alls reindeer games. Couldn’t care less. Back to playing the world’s smallest violin in the world’s tiniest box.