Weaken and divide the left like screaming Harris supports genocide?
Ah, so not only should they have voted for Harris, they should have been silent about the administration’s support of genocide. Even now, in retrospect, as everyone agrees that the genocide is a fact.
Clearly, someone so morally bankrupt as to feel the need to communicate their disgust at their candidate over such an insignificant issue as genocide should be subjected to, at every opportunity, public shaming, derision, and mocking.
It’s more important than they should feel ashamed now that their taking a stand over genocide had its own, worse consequences. I’m sure that, instead of putting them on the defensive and pushing them away, it will ensure they feel warm and fuzzy feelings for they next milquetoast candidate that refuses to take a stand on genocide. They’ll vote for them now, for sure.
Also, I love how everyone assumes I’m defending myself when I give people shit for being unable to move on. These people aren’t idiots. These people feel betrayed and hopeless. Explaining the way the game works is infinitely more productive than blame and derision.
Explaining the way the game works is infinitely more productive than blame and derision.
The way the game works is the person with the most electoral college votes wins the presidency and the party that controls Congress controls the country.
You want to pretend this was some grand gesture against one particular genocide, go ahead. It wasn’t, except in some people’s minds. The stakes were obviously descent into a fascist state or not and they couldn’t be arsed to even vote. These people are idiots.
The way the game works is the person with the most electoral college votes wins the presidency and the party that controls Congress controls the country.
That’s not the game they are trying to play. I think you know this and you are, unsurprisingly, arguing in bad faith.
“The game”, in this case, is to influence politics. Perhaps to get the Democrats to take a firm stance on Israel’s genocide, to get them to push for more progressive policies, to get them to be as inclusive as they claim to be, to get them to be more democratic in their selection of leadership, something else, or a combination of some or all of these things.
You want to pretend this was some grand gesture against one particular genocide, go ahead.
It was many things, like frustration about any or all of the things I mentioned above. It was not a grand gesture. It was desperate flailing of a demoralized subset of people.
You sound like you just want to feel superior. You sound like you are rightly upset by the current situation and are looking for answers and someone to blame. It seems counter productive, if you want things to get better.
It’s been a motherfucking year and we’re needed in the voting booths again. Do you want these “idiots” to sit out again or do you want them to back the not-fascists and maybe steer the country a bit toward sanity?
Honestly, I suspect many of you people who won’t fucking get over it are actually just fascists trying to stir shit up and discourage people from voting.
Isn’t it? You seem to know more about “them” than i do.
. . . to get them to be more democratic in their selection of leadership, something else, or a combination of some or all of these things.
And how would they be in a position to do any of those things, for good or ill? I reiterate that it’s via the electoral methods I mentioned.
It was desperate flailing of a demoralized subset of people.
It was self-sabotage, pure and simple. There was never any other outcome possible.
It’s been a motherfucking year and we’re needed in the voting booths again.
Indeed. Any why the fuck has it been a motherfucking year? It’s a goddamned mystery isn’t it! Holy shit if only someone could have fucking forseen it!
Do you want these “idiots” to sit out again or do you want them to back the not-fascists and maybe steer the country a bit toward sanity?
If these idiots are true to form they will fail us again regardless of who or what is offered. Because where we are is exactly where everyone said we would and it mattered sweet fuckall to them.
Honestly, I suspect many of you people who won’t fucking get over it are actually just fascists trying to stir shit up and discourage people from voting.
Certainly I have been called that and worse - *gasp* bourgeoise! - for demanding Americans who are eligible to vote do so because it’s their right, their privilege, and their duty to do so. And if that discourages people from voting, I don’t know what to tell you.
And how would they be in a position to do any of those things, for good or ill? I reiterate that it’s via the electoral methods I mentioned.
Your view of politics is extremely narrow and simple or you’re continuing to argue in bad faith. Campaigns don’t happen in a vacuum and suddenly you’re handed a ballot.
Holy shit if only someone could have fucking forseen it!
You missed my point entirely. My point is you are beating a dead horse and achieving nothing, save for maybe making yourself feel superior?
And if that discourages people from voting, I don’t know what to tell you.
There’s nothing to say. You listen about as well as you think “those idiots” listen and you appear incapable of empathy or compassion. There’s no point in discussing this any further.
My view of political elections is very practical. The sloganeering, ads, gaffes, and endorsements are done. There’s only the actual mechanics of it left.
And that horse is far from dead. Go to the progressivepolitics comm and see for yourself. We’ve got one year left to carry a majority in one or more houses. However that’s supposed to happen, it needs to happen.
You listen about as well as you think “those idiots” listen and you appear incapable of empathy or compassion. There’s no point in discussing this any further.
I have no idea what you think is supposed to happen to help the situation but if it doesn’t involve soundly defeating republicans then you might as well be living in a fascist hellscape which is what we said this time last year to the jeering jabbering of those who were too pure to vote Harris. It’s extremely fucking simple.
I’m not condoning the game as it currently exists but we do have to live in the aftermath. Given that fact, there are optimal ways to play the game, like voting for the lesser evil when the alternative is clearly much worse.
I don’t think anyone who abstained from voting for Harris in 2024 made the right move, but I empathize with anyone who became fed up with the game and just sat out or tried to use their third party vote or something to send a message. There are ways to improve the game but they are, admittedly, very difficult to pull off and it can be demoralizing when it doesn’t work out, over and over. What I think they don’t understand is that the Dem leadership won’t get the kind of message that people sent in 2024 - leadership is too isolated and the message was too muddled.
Big, organized grassroots movements, like Mamdani’s in NYC are what is needed. The party leadership will need to be dragged kicking and screaming, possibly primaried and ousted, for things to get better. It’s way too easy to be the less-conservative-billionaire-funded minority opposition party and just campaign on that while only marginally pushing for change that the billionaires can agree on.
Ah, so not only should they have voted for Harris, they should have been silent about the administration’s support of genocide. Even now, in retrospect, as everyone agrees that the genocide is a fact.
Clearly, someone so morally bankrupt as to feel the need to communicate their disgust at their candidate over such an insignificant issue as genocide should be subjected to, at every opportunity, public shaming, derision, and mocking.
It’s more important than they should feel ashamed now that their taking a stand over genocide had its own, worse consequences. I’m sure that, instead of putting them on the defensive and pushing them away, it will ensure they feel warm and fuzzy feelings for they next milquetoast candidate that refuses to take a stand on genocide. They’ll vote for them now, for sure.
Also, I love how everyone assumes I’m defending myself when I give people shit for being unable to move on. These people aren’t idiots. These people feel betrayed and hopeless. Explaining the way the game works is infinitely more productive than blame and derision.
The way the game works is the person with the most electoral college votes wins the presidency and the party that controls Congress controls the country.
You want to pretend this was some grand gesture against one particular genocide, go ahead. It wasn’t, except in some people’s minds. The stakes were obviously descent into a fascist state or not and they couldn’t be arsed to even vote. These people are idiots.
That’s not the game they are trying to play. I think you know this and you are, unsurprisingly, arguing in bad faith.
“The game”, in this case, is to influence politics. Perhaps to get the Democrats to take a firm stance on Israel’s genocide, to get them to push for more progressive policies, to get them to be as inclusive as they claim to be, to get them to be more democratic in their selection of leadership, something else, or a combination of some or all of these things.
It was many things, like frustration about any or all of the things I mentioned above. It was not a grand gesture. It was desperate flailing of a demoralized subset of people.
You sound like you just want to feel superior. You sound like you are rightly upset by the current situation and are looking for answers and someone to blame. It seems counter productive, if you want things to get better.
It’s been a motherfucking year and we’re needed in the voting booths again. Do you want these “idiots” to sit out again or do you want them to back the not-fascists and maybe steer the country a bit toward sanity?
Honestly, I suspect many of you people who won’t fucking get over it are actually just fascists trying to stir shit up and discourage people from voting.
Isn’t it? You seem to know more about “them” than i do.
And how would they be in a position to do any of those things, for good or ill? I reiterate that it’s via the electoral methods I mentioned.
It was self-sabotage, pure and simple. There was never any other outcome possible.
Indeed. Any why the fuck has it been a motherfucking year? It’s a goddamned mystery isn’t it! Holy shit if only someone could have fucking forseen it!
If these idiots are true to form they will fail us again regardless of who or what is offered. Because where we are is exactly where everyone said we would and it mattered sweet fuckall to them.
Certainly I have been called that and worse - *gasp* bourgeoise! - for demanding Americans who are eligible to vote do so because it’s their right, their privilege, and their duty to do so. And if that discourages people from voting, I don’t know what to tell you.
Your view of politics is extremely narrow and simple or you’re continuing to argue in bad faith. Campaigns don’t happen in a vacuum and suddenly you’re handed a ballot.
You missed my point entirely. My point is you are beating a dead horse and achieving nothing, save for maybe making yourself feel superior?
There’s nothing to say. You listen about as well as you think “those idiots” listen and you appear incapable of empathy or compassion. There’s no point in discussing this any further.
My view of political elections is very practical. The sloganeering, ads, gaffes, and endorsements are done. There’s only the actual mechanics of it left.
And that horse is far from dead. Go to the progressivepolitics comm and see for yourself. We’ve got one year left to carry a majority in one or more houses. However that’s supposed to happen, it needs to happen.
I have no idea what you think is supposed to happen to help the situation but if it doesn’t involve soundly defeating republicans then you might as well be living in a fascist hellscape which is what we said this time last year to the jeering jabbering of those who were too pure to vote Harris. It’s extremely fucking simple.
“Vote for me or else”
The words of an abusive spouse essentially.
I’m not condoning the game as it currently exists but we do have to live in the aftermath. Given that fact, there are optimal ways to play the game, like voting for the lesser evil when the alternative is clearly much worse.
I don’t think anyone who abstained from voting for Harris in 2024 made the right move, but I empathize with anyone who became fed up with the game and just sat out or tried to use their third party vote or something to send a message. There are ways to improve the game but they are, admittedly, very difficult to pull off and it can be demoralizing when it doesn’t work out, over and over. What I think they don’t understand is that the Dem leadership won’t get the kind of message that people sent in 2024 - leadership is too isolated and the message was too muddled.
Big, organized grassroots movements, like Mamdani’s in NYC are what is needed. The party leadership will need to be dragged kicking and screaming, possibly primaried and ousted, for things to get better. It’s way too easy to be the less-conservative-billionaire-funded minority opposition party and just campaign on that while only marginally pushing for change that the billionaires can agree on.