Reminder! China has 1,000,000,000 more people than the US. Not trying to be a China simp but fuck we need to fix the zoning and whatever else they got us in this mess if we can’t even compete at this difference of population.
And I say this as someone who bought last July and would be kinda screwed if prices started going down
BUT AT WHAT COST?!
No seriously how much does it cost I need affordable housing??
China is building a middle class, Americans are ripping it down.
Housing as a commodity instead of a human right will continue to be a blight on humanity.
How britian almost solved the housing crisis
Or, you know, do what China is doing. You dont have to agree with someone to learn from them.
That last sentence in particular
imagine not having to pay an entire minimum wage monthly to bankers (at the bare minimum) just to have a roof over your head.
Minimum wage isn’t enough to pay for a roof over your head… unless you mean the roof of a car…
not with all the other bills and stuff to pay for. at least here.
and cars are getting more and more expensive because our car industry doesn’t want to sell to consumers anymore, living in cars is not as viable.
living in cars is never “viable” it’s just what some people do when thier only other alternative is living under a bridge…
Unhoused people living in cars aren’t buying new cars, so it doesn’t really matter what car manufacturers are doing today for them… and the maintenance costs are still way lower than paying rent
I’m paying 3x my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to own in a fairly modest 1100 sqft house in a semi walkable area in a major city.
Before here I used to pay my states monthly minimum wage for hourly workers to live in a fucking slum just outside the city. House was by an interstate so I got soot on anything I left outside, all the houses in the neighborhood were water damaged and molded to hell, the roads were so cracked it was fucking up cars, and everyone who lived there seemed miserable.
It’s grind or die, I got so fucking sick living in alleged affordable housing. Nerve damage and all kinds of weird chronic health problems from living in such a toxic death trap for years. They don’t call it the Dirty South for nothing, this place is completely fucked.
Renting is when your landlord makes you pay an extra 25 dollars a month because you yelled at him one time over leaving cat shit in the shared bathroom all day
Shared bathrooms, what a concept.
Doesn’t China have an issue with 65 million of their homes sitting empty which belong to people with no intention to ever move in?
It’s my understanding that owning a home in China is seen as social leverage so people buy homes that don’t even benefit their lives.
This isn’t too be a pessimist, I do think China’s rising middle class is much better off than it has ever been. I just don’t idealize their housing.
70% of China’s millennials are Americans, Canadians and homeowners? Something’s not right…
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china, being a dictatorship of the proletariat and having an actually-working participatory democratic process, has its press in the hands of the people. western countries, being dictatorships of the bourgeoisie, have their press in the hands of a few billionaires, and somehow according to shitlibs that makes it “free and fair” lmfao
lmfao a western-backed “freedom index” is not a substitution for media literacy, nor does it excuse you from providing literally any material evidence to support your argument.
Also, do you want to explain why Israel is ranked at 112; 50 places above Venezuela and Palestine; and why Saudi fuckin Arabia is right there between VZ and PA? Seems to me like this “freedom index” doesn’t correlate very well with democracy or human rights, much less evidence-based journalism or state transparency.
“china ranked a senseless brutal dictatorship according to their enemies”, nice try.
your so called land of the free has the largest prison population in the planet period. you guys are literally getting the gestapo to kill innocent bystanders on the streets while calling yourselves a democracy.
you guys could really use learning from socialists and arresting some of your fascistic “journalists” and politicians peddling genocide on so called “dictatorships” you know nothing about abroad. maybe then you can have affordable housing.
Ah, the same Reporters Without Borders gaslighting the world about journalist deaths in Gaza?
You know how it’s frustrating when far right reactionaries roll up in lib spaces on reddit spewing propaganda the sources of which they haven’t investigated critically? That’s you. You’re doing that here. Please stop.
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Not that it is true that they are just tiny boxes… But even if it were true. That’s the difference between China and the US isn’t it?
One provides at least a “box” for everyone.
One provides a big home with a yard with a white picket fence around it for some, but leaves others living in the streets.
Do you really prefer the last one? So many people in the US would be happy with a box at this point.
Their comment was removed but if they’re referring to the tiny boxes I think they are (known as coffin homes), that’s actually in Hong Kong which is notably still very capitalist.
Not even just left to the streets. Many cities are death marching the homeless around, arresting, terrorizing, and stealing personal property of the homeless every step of the way.
https://projects.propublica.org/impact-of-homeless-sweeps-lost-belongings/
The freezing homeless people you pass every day in glorious freedomland would love one of those.
As nice as it sounds a ton of ppl are still on the streets on both sides
Even tho one has ghost cities
Neither has ghost cities, but one has ghost towns in the southwest and the rust belt.
Mb i meant towns
Isn’t the land underneath the house never owned by the person, always the state? So while they may “own” the structure, it’s always in doubt of whether they will be able to lease the land again after the current lease expires.
Oh no, the state in China prevents rich assholes from buying up and hoarding property, how terrible!
it’s a lifetime lease and prevents the accumulation of generational wealth in real estate. not flawless but generally still miles better than what westerners have. (nothing)
It does? Do you have anything to back up that claim?
the fact that real estate is dirt cheap and therefore it’s not a feasible way to become a leech (landlord) and live off rent because it’ll not pay off
That’s not backing it up, that’s saying “nu uh” in an echo chamber.
Do better. Cause I actually want proof. Like, please, give me proof it’s better.
You are sealioning right now. You’re asking someone else to do a shit ton of work under the guise of “just asking questions” pretending to have healthy discourse.
A lot of this sites people suck and its filled with people justifying absurd things, but right here, you are asking a question so open ended its tantamount to asking for a thesis paper, and those would still be scrutinized.
Uh if the 90% overall homeownership rate isn’t “backing it up” I want to know how you define “better”
OK, do you have a source for the 90% home ownership rate?
Why? Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise? Is there a particular reason you’re so adamant that China’s system must be worse than the commodified system we have in the west?
eChO cHaMbEr
And what’s the problem with that?
This may be a hot take but I think there should not be forever private ancestral lands.
The city/state should periodically get the land back and resell it to cover the ever changing maintenance costs (heck you are paying this with the increasing property tax)
The city/state should have a relatively predictable timeline of when they can reliably gain control of a land back so they can plan development around it (particularly infrastructure) and not deal with someone who know they can just squat on such land to sell for an inflated price.
Having an “expiration date” on the land is a surefire way to stop ever increasing property prices, getting a home with a shorter remaining lease period might be preferable for some who is not going to stay there permanently but long enough to want to own a home and having these options be a cheaper option is a very good thing. Such expiration date also means it is easier to modernize each property as needed, this will not be the death of historic buildings because the city/state still can make exceptions for them if needed.
Also how many of the US-ians are getting a house as their inheritance anyways? Oftentimes when a generation passes away post retirement, their house gets sold to some investment firm and becomes a rental.
So the city/state should be covering maintenance costs by reselling the land… what the fuck are rates and land taxes meant to cover again?
There are no property taxes in China last I checked.
It’s almost like people are talking about implementing this in other countries, strange concept I know, once you’ve caught up perhaps you could contribute meaningfully to the discussion.
Being a jackass is also not a meaningful contribution.
Agreed, you should try not doing it sometime
Pointing out someone being rude does not make me rude.
If they have to pay to renew the lease, that’s is a kind of property tax, especially if an individual has to compete to buy their own lease. This may or may not be the case.
There are also ostensibly value-added taxes and land appreciation taxes but I’ll admit those are not property taxes per se.
There is also this source that says that select cities such as Shanghai and Chongqing have pilot programs for property tax primarily targeted at high-value residential properties and secondary homes but they don’t have any sources, so I have no clue if it’s true.
The news about the pilot is correct. Xi Jinping had been pushing for it for a long time and this is all he has been able to get so far. He is strongly against speculative growth of real estate.
AFAIK residents don’t have to compete to renew the lease. We have seen the first batches of leases expiring in recent times and no one got evicted. What I understand is that, you can’t sell your house after the lease expires, but you can continue living their indefinitely till the building crumbles. If the government decides to demolish and redevelop, then they give you a new house in the same place.
Awesome! Do you have another source for the pilot? I expect it’s all in Mandarin and I am terrible at finding things in other languages.
I don’t have anything handy but I believe there’s a wikipedia page which has references for this topic. I can’t remember which one.
Yeah the us would never force anyone off of land.
Every government does, that’s no “gotcha”.
The US did and does it.
China did it with 1.3 million people to build a dam.
Russia is doing it in Ukraine.
Doesn’t make it any of the instances right.
Human Rights Watch? Seriously? Do you look into your sources at all, or are you just happy to spread imperial apologia?
Wikipedia is a terrible source for current affairs.
Your attempts to smear the three gorges dam project are part of a tradition older than the Internet. Of course, the human rights watch was all over that propaganda.
How long is the lease for?
70 year lease, renewable via application.
The land under your house is owned by the Indigenous people you stole it from. So while you may “own” the structure, when Indigenous law is restored after the illegitimate occupation falls, you will be told to GTFO.
That’s incorrect.
Indigenous people as a general idea did not believe that land could be owned by an individual due to viewing the Earth as one’s relative, requiring respect and care, as are all the animals and plant life the land supports. Judeo-Christian religions, likely along with many other religions that I haven’t studied from Eurasia and Africa, view land as being able to be subjugated like cattle or sheep.
This is unlikely to change until climate change and its disasters convince people that they need to actually take care of the earth.
Don’t use facts. It upsets the edgelords
