Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).
I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.
They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.
I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.
There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.
I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.
Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.
I mean, that’s great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it’s very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.
You used to be able to still buy ‘dumb’ TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they’ve stopped selling them now. (I’m kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance…)
It’s happening, but do you really believe a bunch of nonprofit low income “woke” “DEI” loving hippies are going to lobby more effectively than billion dollar corporations - er, sorry, PEOPLE - will lobby? These people literally bankroll candidates for office to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and have hundreds of lawyers to pick apart any resistance.
Sure, lobby. Just understand we are just continuing the fight on principle, not because it will have any impact.
We can’t give up, but we aren’t going to win, short of a literal uprising and even then it’s probably just going to remove the lipstick from this political pig, and the pretense of “for the people” will fall away.
I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.
If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.
What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?
Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”
If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.
If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.
Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don’t normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole’s logs. I’m fairly confident it won’t.
Best I can do is Google it and read it to you. I’m a little knowledgeable about how a pihole works since I have my Net+, and I’ve set up a few Pi-hole’s (or the same one a few times tbh), but I’m definitely not a networking expert.
No, it’s not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.
DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access.
But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.
To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it’s connected, then call the brand’s server for ads/updates/etc.
Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.
My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.
Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.
Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a “I’m never going to update again” beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn’t disable any ADB-level processes, and I don’t think the system let me disable updates.
Relatedly, Hisense also forces updates and disables use of the TV if you do not accept the update (via a full screen non-cancelable prompt).
I learned this the hard way after Hisense broke my TV via an update that I didn’t want and then refused to fix it even after 6 months of escalations and emails.
They’re not alone, either. I had to downgrade my Visio just to use the features that it shipped with. I’m sure this is illegal, but no one cares unless you’re rich.
I outright told them it’s illegal, since they are unilaterally altering the terms of any T&C agreements when we started using the TV and materially interfering with our ownership and use of the TV we purchased. They didn’t care. I then sent it to our state attorney general and nothing happened.
You can likely sue them in small claims court. Many states let you file for a couple hundred dollars and will give you 3x damages if you win.
The most likely outcome is they settle when the court date approaches or dont show and you win hy default.
There was a guy in Texas who thought a big tobacco company would settle out without showing, but instead he got counter sued to the tune of millions. That man? Rusty Shackleford.
There’s a good documentary about it.
I can neither confirm nor deny that @RustyShackleford@piefed.social is man of taste.
Time is a flat circle.
I can neither confirm nor deny baked goods preferences without counsel present.
And if time really is a flat circle, then one of us should remember this conversation already.
I don’t.
Which means you’re early… or I’m late. 🤔
Boil Up Some Mt. Dew, It’s Gonna Be A Long Night
I know they’re different manufacturers, but TCL tried this shit and I just factory reset and never setup the Internet on it. I use an android TV box for the smarts.
Unfortunately the firmware was the issue, not just OS software. So factory-resetting didn’t help us. But yeah, that definitely radicalized me to the “never connect it to the internet” camp for future TVs.
Buying the TV and then not connecting it still rewards the bad behavior.
We have to boycott these fucks and lobby to get the behavior outlawed.
I mean, that’s great in theory. But the amount of manufacturers of non-smart TVs is tiny, and if you are interested in the best panels and display technology, refresh rates for gaming, etc (even removing affordability), it’s very very hard to just boycott if you want to have a modern TV at all.
The best panels for gaming are on computer monitors, not tvs.
You’re implying there is an option other than not owning a TV. Please send us specifics so we can join you.
You used to be able to still buy ‘dumb’ TVs from Sceptre up until a year or so ago, but even they’ve stopped selling them now. (I’m kicking myself for not buying one when I had the chance…)
But the important part of my comment was this:
It’s happening, but do you really believe a bunch of nonprofit low income “woke” “DEI” loving hippies are going to lobby more effectively than billion dollar corporations - er, sorry, PEOPLE - will lobby? These people literally bankroll candidates for office to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and have hundreds of lawyers to pick apart any resistance.
Sure, lobby. Just understand we are just continuing the fight on principle, not because it will have any impact.
We can’t give up, but we aren’t going to win, short of a literal uprising and even then it’s probably just going to remove the lipstick from this political pig, and the pretense of “for the people” will fall away.
I got a TCL last year and it wouldn’t let me use the TV until I set up the internet. After 4 factory resets I figured out how to put it in store demo mode, and plugged in a separate streaming device that connects to the internet. Now I realize I could have connected the TV to the internet and then blocked it at the network level.
If you are using a network level block, make sure it’s a black hole and not just a DNS filter. I tried a DNS filter with a Roku and found that they bypass it with hardcoded values, even when the DNS server was statically assigned and DHCP assigned.
What you mean by black hole and filter? I blocked a bunch of tcl domains on my pihole and made my router drop everything in port 53 coming from every other device that wasn’t pihole. It seems to have worked for now… Is that a good solution?
Pi-hole blocks the name resolution. TV wants to go to Hisense.com, asks your Pi-hole where that site is. Your Pi-hole sees that Hisense is on a block list, so it says back to your TV “sorry, no idea how to get to that site, it must be offline.”
If the manufacturer wants to get around this, they program a public DNS in, like 8.8.8.8, or they hardcode the static IP for their website into the TV. Now when it wants to go to Hisense, it never has to ask your Pi-Hole where that site is, and it doesn’t get blocked. Heck, it probably won’t even show up on your Pi-hole’s logs.
If you black hole the site, then any traffic going out there gets dropped, and the hard-coded addresses on the TV don’t matter for shit.
I don’t think my tcl TV has it hardcoded because my pihole is always blocking tcl domains
![(https://media.piefed.social/posts/tU/o1/tUo1JxYy1qjG7g4.jpg)]
Your Pi-hole can only block the things that query DNS. Try this, ping a website you don’t normally go to, and you should see that show up in Pihole log. Next, ping an IP, I usually pick on 8.8.8.8, and see if that shows up in your Pi-hole’s logs. I’m fairly confident it won’t.
Where can I find out more about black holing a site?
Best I can do is Google it and read it to you. I’m a little knowledgeable about how a pihole works since I have my Net+, and I’ve set up a few Pi-hole’s (or the same one a few times tbh), but I’m definitely not a networking expert.
Cool! Thanks!
No, it’s not robust. It may work for your TV, but it can be worked around.
DNS is like a phone directory for Internet: it translates domain name to IP addresses. If you block the DNS (what pihole does), it blocks the directory access. But if the IP address of the servers are hard-coded in the firmware, the TV does not need a DNS, it can reach the server directly.
To trick the TV, you need to restrict the IPs it can reach. It might be delicate: it probably tries to ping some comme IPs to check it’s connected, then call the brand’s server for ads/updates/etc.
Wait till they start paying netflix to relay data for them :)
Yep, same issue with Firestick here.
Their Google TV models have a basic mode which lets you use it without internet with no bypassing.
As do the Roku TCL models. I currently have mine disconnected and plan to keep it that way.
Unfortunately manufacturers are starting to get wise to this as well. I recently bought a new Vizio smart TV with no intentions of connecting it to the internet and during the initial setup it kept very persistently insisting that it needed to be connected and after setup it constantly bitches at me that it’s not connected.
I did the same thing, their bullshit ad infested updates were the final straw,
My mom has a Hisense TV (because my parents invariably buy the very cheapest they can. They’d get a B&W if they could), and it just started something new - on start up, it now shows a static page of color wash, then you choose a channel. It doesn’t start on the same channel you turned off last night. Must be a new update came through. She let it sit on the screensaver all day, because it never occurred to her to try to change the channel.
Not a big deal, but weird, and NOBODY asked for this.
Chargeback?
Would have loved to. It was just over one year (right after the warranty ended as well), though.
Is that your card issuer’s policy? I’ve done a chargeback past a year.
My Hisense got worse in some ways after an update, support provided a file to get the previous firmware back and told me to disable updates. ¯\(ツ)/¯
Funny story, they actually did this to me before this all happened, and I was on a “I’m never going to update again” beta firmware that they gave me a link to, when the forced-update happened that broke my wifi. I didn’t disable any ADB-level processes, and I don’t think the system let me disable updates.