As an outsider, I read about land being reclaimed by Isreali settlers but cannot see how this is different to any other similar situation, like the Ukraine conflict.
No no Russia is evil for invading Ukraine. But Palestinians are evil for being invaded by Israel
From my understanding is Israel has been oppressing Palestinians for years now. This is Palestine “fuck you” move that, imo, is long overdue. I do not want this conflict, but Israel has this coming.
The non-combatants being murdered did not “have it coming”, and thinking otherwise is psychotic.
Hamas could have restricted themselves to army bases; they’re not hidden. Instead they stormed nearby towns and started gunning down anyone they could find. There is simply no justification for this.
And before anyone asks, every innocent Palestinian murdered by the IDF is just as much of a crime. This isn’t how any progress is made. Who knows how many Gazans are going to pay for this, which Hamas is perfectly well aware of because it doesn’t actually care about them.
Youre right, I made my comment at about the start of this. I dont necessarily change my “this was coming” stance but at no point did i think this would change anything and will definitely make things worse for everyone involved.
I don’t know much about this conflict, so all I say is meant as big "maybe"s.
As a settler moving into occupied territory, maybe you shouldn’t be counted as 100% civilian. Not a military target either. I think it blurs the line.
Sucks for the next generation.
Netanyahu was elected despite Israel expanding so I guess the majority of citizens were fine with taking palestinian lands. If you’re fine with stealing something you’re fine with taking the risk that it will be fought for. They thought they could do it without risking their lives and then fucked around and found out.
And Hamas was also elected, and if you spend any time on Arabic social media, you’ll see this being applauded everywhere.
Is it that hard to think at even a slightly higher level? If you think these attacks were justified because of prior violence, then you also think that Israel is now justified at a brutal response, which will further radicalize all sides and make peace even more impossible than it already is. I mean, do you want Gaza to become a flattened field of rubble? Because that’s the road that you’re talking about going down.
Gaza is a prison and Israel is.the warden
It was only a matter of time. You can only oppress innocent people so much before they have no other choice left behind.
As usual the world turns a blind eye to this oppression.
Of course, now, Israel will feel they have the mandate to obliterate them even more.
Innocent my ass. Oppressors my ass. They negotiate in bad faith and have never wanted a peace, nor will they ever achieve anything by this violence. They’re a disgusting one trick pony that the world has seen through.
Lynching and raping and mutilating bodies and killing civilians for fun are not among things possibly justified by any oppression. As I’ve said elsewhere, they behave like Azeris or Turks. If you want a truly independent Palestinian state, then you’d want these thugs squashed, otherwise they’ll create a picture impeding the creation of such a state for decades.
What’s your view on 9/11?
I don’t remember the U.S. oppressing the Saudis. When did that happen?
Osama Bin Laden:
Terrorism against America deserves to be praised because it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel, which kills our people.
Did American civilians ‘have it coming’ on 9/11?
Do Israeli civilians ‘have it coming’ now?
“Our people?” Bin Laden wasn’t a Palestinian. He was just lying. So I’m pretty sure that’s not the same.
He claimed he was defending his fellow arabs.
Would 9/11 have been justified if Bin Laden had been a Palestinian?
I don’t play games like that. He wasn’t a Palestinian. He wasn’t fighting for Palestinians. That was a bullshit cover. It was a Saudi operation. It was funded by the Saudis and 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. If there is ever a Palestinian attack on U.S. soil, and I doubt there will be since they don’t have the funding or the organization, we can talk about whether or not it is justified and what measures, if any, should be taken.
But I’m not interested in “Would Hitler’s invasion of Poland have been justified if the Poles were the ones oppressing the Jews” questions.
The conflict in Israel / Palestine started under British rule, before the proper existence of either Israel of Palestine as we know them today. The population that would eventually declare Israeli independence came riding in on migrant ships, not tanks. The one decisive moment everyone can agree an internationally recognized border was violated was the Israeli expansion in '67. So I would say that it’s fruitful and apt to ask “how is demanding Israel return to '67 borders any different from demanding that Russia go back to Russia?”, but stretching the analogy to the whole I/P conflict is probably out of place.
Al Jazeera has a timeline going. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2023/10/7/israel-palestine-escalation-live-news-barrage-of-rockets-fired-from-gaza Israel-Palestine escalation live news: Hamas starts Operation Al-Aqsa Flood
militants travel from palestine to palestine
I have to admit my understanding of Hamas is imperfect at best, I’m mostly aware of them from their work during Israel’s illegal invasion of Southern Lebanon…
But doesn’t this seem uncharacteristically… aggressive for Hamas? Attacking civilians at a music festival?
Taking civilians hostages?
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/07/middleeast/hostages-hamas-israel-gaza/index.html
What has caused this sudden change in their MO? If you had told me Hezbollah was doing it, I wouldn’t have batted an eye, (and they seem to approve - https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-gaza-rockets-attack-palestinians/card/hezbollah-praises-hamas-attack-warns-against-normalising-ties-with-israel-rbqLpR9QDzCyiUGQw0xl) but this seems just so much more radical than Hamas has been previously.
Hamas, for years, had “the extermination of the Jewish people” in their charter. Not “drive the Jews out of Israel,” but exterminate them.
I believe they technically removed it a few years ago, but they obviously didn’t ditch the sentiment. They’ve also fired rockets at civilian targets multiple times.
Hamas is a terrorist organization masquerading as a governing body.
The creation of the Israeli state was the worst move in geopolitics since the scramble for Africa and the border fuckery that ensued from that. They couldn’t have stuck the Jews somewhere more hospitable than the holy land of two opposing religions?
they should have put it in New Jersey instead tbh
“Palestinia”Terrorists momentThis is going to be a shitshow on Lemmy with the amount of tankies on here who’ll be defending terrorists killing civilians.
I just block them all, maybe i should make my block list public lol
A lot of them already went on there during red September when the the Hexbear federation happened. The ones who’ll use this a way to justify their mask off anti-Semitism will be going on there too.
You can have issues with the state of Israel and Palestine without being antisemitic
Yeah they need to be defederated these bastards are just a pain in the ass.
Yeah, they’re straight up authoritarian propaganda. Lemmy.ml isn’t much better, they’ll delete your comments and leave outright lies, just happened to me a couple days ago.
Yeah best instances are Shitjustworks and burggit.
Do not fucking use us in the same sentence as that place.
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No, no, these are peace operatives /s. But yes, get rid of them all. They have a death wish, simple as that. They can never/ won’t ever build themselves up. The Arab world is moving past the Palestinian nonsense cause. They should’ve done a deal years ago instead continuing the bloodshed. Life could be so much better for them if they only chose a better way.
Say the same of Ukrainian then.
