Required readings would include passages from Old and New Testament for students in middle school
The conservative-majority Texas State Board of Education is considering adding at least 15 passages from the Bible to a required reading list as part of English lessons in public schools – the latest push from conservatives to implement Christianity into school curriculums.
Beginning in middle school, Texas students could be forced to read stories from the Bible including Jonah and the Whale, David and Goliath, and Lamentations 3 in addition to passages such as The Definition of Love from the New Testament, according to the list reported by the New York Times.
The new proposed changes have raised concerns from advocacy groups and academics who believe the changes will teach children a one-sided history lesson and “indoctrinate” students.
I could honestly see this backfiring in a really funny way. Not only will they actually try harder to get them to learn to read, but in my experience kids tend to hate books they are forced to read. In the setting that is church there’s more of a peer pressure from all the other kids and adults to learn the bible. In high-school/middle-school there’s peer pressure to not read the books you are supposed to read save for those that love reading. The only books I remember reading from those years are the ones I chose to read while the ones I was told to read had left my brain almost entirely by my mid 20s
Banned books are also popular.
They are probably gonna ban Quran soon if they haven’t already so double-backfire?
I dunno if that’s always the case. I still love The Phantom Tollbooth.
On the other hand, I remember being really frustrated by a phrase from another book. (I think it was “Kneeknock Rise”? I remember exactly nothing else about this book, though, so it might not be that.) It was a description of a scene, and it said the dog was asleep, “arms and legs akimbo.” Now, I was in… maybe third or fourth grade, so I had never encountered the word “akimbo” before, and asked my parents what it meant. They explained that “arms akimbo” was basically the only phrase in which it’s used, and it means having your arms out to your sides with your elbows bent and your hands on your hips. But this just confused me further, because the book said “arms and legs akimbo.” I had no idea what it was trying to describe, and could not picture it. I tried to draw a picture of what it seemed to be describing, and continued to find it baffling. My parents agreed that was odd, and suggested I talk to my teacher about it. The teacher was very dismissive, though, saying “well, obviously you’ve never had a dog, or you’d know exactly what they’re talking about.” Which…what? Why would you even say that to a curious kid? Couldn’t you at least draw a doodle of what it looks like?
So yeah, being forced to stick with a book you don’t like does leave a very strong negative impression.
Texas recently passed a law preventing books that involve sex from being in libraries. The story of Lot and his daughters, and the famous quote in Ezekiel mean the bible should be banned under that law.
Wasn’t there a ruling that the Bible is exempted because it’s “culturally important” or something?
At this point I’m surprised they haven’t started rewriting the Bible to bring it inline with their version of the faith. You know, drop the commandment about not committing adultery and swap it with “Thou shalt not abort”. Instead of Jesus feeding the masses and preaching neighborly love he says “get a job you fucking poors” and “hate the gays”. Moses frees his people with the power of the 2nd Amendment.
That would exempt basically most banned books
Naked Lunch is also culturally important.
Also Noah and his sons, and probably a whole bunch more. But god damn is it puritanical to pass such a law in [current year]
I don’t mind them reading the Bible, if they are able to read the whole thing, one end to the other. For many people, a thorough reading of the bible beginning to end is what causes them to question Christianity and realize that it is a population control tool for those with power (and riches), not the word of a God. It is such an incoherent mess that cannot literally be followed - if you follow one edict, you break another. Reading it destroys the idea that an all powerful, all knowing God was it’s roundabout creator. If there was a God surely it could have done a better job, even using inadequate humans to produce the product. So, after reading, you know it was a man made project. The Koran and Torah yield similar results. I think that is the main reason why religions try, or have tried in the past, to restrict reading to a select few leaders and try to keep the propaganda to what they want it to mean at any given time in history.
The Koran and Torah yield similar results. I think that is the main reason why religions try, or have tried in the past, to restrict reading to a select few leaders and try to keep the propaganda to what they want it to mean at any given time in history.
Regarding the Koran, your statement is verifiably false. It was widely read and memorized by the masses so that a select few leaders couldn’t control what they want it to mean.
Quite a large number of those masses, in non-Arabic-speaking countries such as Pakistan and Indonesia, memorize the Qur’an without knowing what it means, which is a piss-poor way of preventing elite capture. More effective is that fact that, in Sunni Islam, there’s no formal religious hierarchy, and each congregation operates independently (like the Christian Congregationalists used to). Though social conformity squeezes out the diversity of beliefs, and there are respected institutions and scholars such as Al-Azhar university that are widely respected, but there’s no Sunni Pope. Sufis are structured similarly. Shia’s, on the other hand, have a hierarchy of authority that puts the Catholics to shame.
Not knowing the language is a problem which doesn’t fully eliminate the issue, you’re right, but it does eliminate the possibility of changing the written scriptures. As a result there will always be thinkers who can return to the original text and come to their own conclusions, challenging the prevailing thoughts of their region or era, something that has repeatedly occurred in Muslim history.
Your claim of their statement being verifiably false is in itself verifiably false.
Their claim was the works do not inspire a belief in God (for them), and they know it was a man-made project. Since they know themselves so much better than you, they are the only ones who can give their opinion.
Yes, people memorized the Koran, Bible, Tanakh, throughout the history of each faith. However, there are many examples (legions!) of those same works (in whole or in part) being protected by a variety of sects… not one of those faiths was consistent throughout their history.
Remember, God hates liars! Don’t call others liars just because one of their points isn’t all-encompassing. Recall, they said “I think”… this means it’s an opinion. Don’t lie, Allah would be ashamed of you if He was real.
I was responding to the text I quoted, not the full post 🙄
Do you know how long and boring that is? This would be like just a dozen pages.
you really don’t need to get to the end.
But you do! The ending is the very best part, it renders everything before it into an absurdity.
It’s the punchline
Kids, there’s plenty of verses to read from if you’re called upon. Try this one first:
NIV Ezekiel 23:20 “There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”
Me too, thanks.
There’s a lot of….interesting sexual things in there. Anyone thinking of the children here!? 🤣
I really am tempted to walk into a bible thumping school and read every single sex related verse just for kicks. but I’m trans so chances are they would shoot me and claim I had a bomb.
What Would Jesus Do? Flip every fucking table on the planet.
Jesus says they are wicked, meanwhile, He promises to kill everybody on Earth who won’t bow to Him.
That’s kinda creepy, don’t you think? His promise is to be the greatest murderer of all time (again)
I was finishing elementary school in the late 1960s, in extreme right wing Anaheim, California. Twice a month, the (public) schools had something called “released time religion.” Two trailers would pull up to school, one for the Catholics and one for the Holy Rollers. The kids whose parents had signed a release would spend the afternoon learning Jesus things. The rest of us were expected to sit quietly, reflecting on our moral inadequacy for not being in the trailer.
As you might imagine, the majority of students who did go to the trailer, took umbrage at those who did not. And even then, I noted that there was nothing for the Jewish or Muslim or Hindu kids.
we had a few things like that back in the 90s when i was in HS. I went to every available one. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan (we actually had a Wiccan club!). It got me out of class and was fun to learn about other cultures.
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Genesis 19:30-38
New International Version
Lot and His Daughters
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and slept with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I slept with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and sleep with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went in and slept with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab^[a]^; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi^[b]^; he is the father of the Ammonites^[c]^ of today.
Like others in here, I have a lot of concerns about indoctrination and separation between religion and government. However, I can see a serious argument for Jonah and the Whale and especially David and Goliath as cultural touchstones that are regularly referenced in modern media. Other stories may be a harder pitch, maybe Cain & Abel?
Yeah, if I set aside my deep seated hatred for religious people undermining the Texas public education system-
I do actually think some of those stories are relevant literature to have read, alongside beowulf, epic of gilgamesh, the Iliad, arthurian legends, etc.
David and Goliath whitewashes and celebrates a genocide.
Yeah, but those stories are plagiarized along with most things in the Bible.
A more correct way of putting it is that they’re embodiments of far more ancient cultural traditions (none of which were copyrighted, you can’t steal a myth).
none of which were copyrighted, you can’t steal a myth
and wouldn’t
Time for the Satanic Temple to do its work.
It is funny when you see one theocracy (Israel) in alliance with another (the US is a de facto theocracy, not a de jure one) bombing a third theocracy (Iran) killing indiscriminately. And they all believe in the same God, practicing similar methods, only their rituals of worship are different. Is there a more obvious fact that religion is the source of all evil in human history?
Are they using the original book written in Aramaic or are they using that NEW one in English with all the translation errors?
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And any translator had an agenda.
You can bet it won’t be the Ge’ez translation with 81 books.
Yeah, they forked the canon before it was cut down. The greatest omission that the Ethiopians retained is the Book of Enoch, which is arguably the first sci-fi. Really whacky origin-myth narratives.
By that standard: First? Have you read Genesis? Exodus? Leviticus? Numbers? Deuteronomy?
Good, the best way to get more atheists is to force students to read the Bible.
it’s ridiculous tripe
There are some passages they could read to open their eyes about religion. Those that their pastor never uses in church…
Do it. Forcing students to read the Bible will create a loooooot more Atheists. Better than “believers” who don’t even know the source material, which is what we have now.
There’s a reason they choose specific passages, and they’ll come with specific interpretations as learning goals.
I mean, that’s what they tried to do with me and my fellow students at my private christian school, but it just raised questions, and when the adults didn’t like our questions it was very insightful. Most of the people I went to school with are no longer evangelicals, in fact I don’t think a single one is.
My kids’ mother’s family are Muslim, so the kids were offered Islamic instruction when they were young. When they were teaching about the 99 prophets who preceded Muhammad, my daughter said “hey, wait a minute, this can’t be right, none of them are women.” So the school called me, I had to take her home from class early, and she never went back.
They also told her that her Barbies had djinn living in them, which she immediately realized was ridiculous.
My other kids also figured it out, but in a lower-profile way.
All my kids were also given the opportunity to be instructed in Christianity and to attend Jewish services, and all but one took that opportunity, but didn’t buy what they were selling either. All are now atheists.
You’re anecdote is nice and all, but it’s an anecdote.
I couldn’t find much data specifically on rates of students of religious schools leaving that religion, but what little data I found says more people stay in the religion when enrolled in religious schools than not.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4621974
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S073805932500238X
Most students in religious schools have very religious parents who indoctrinate them from early childhood, and my anecdotes are different from yours. Few students decide that losing their friends and support system are worth leaving the religion, and remain in it even if they have doubts. The more you force religion to be a part of a person’s social support system, the tighter you hold them in.
I agree that if they start reading and studying it honestly the more disillusioned they’ll become, that’s my personal experience also. But most people in my experience do not have the critical thinking skills or the ability to study independently to come to those conclusions, they rely on the religious text being interpreted for them, and they accept a figure head (priest or pastor or Imam or Rabi) to answer difficult questions and reject anything that makes them “question” their faith, because they’ve been warned about the evil world that will try to get them to question their faith their whole life. They don’t begin engaging critically with counterarguments because religious apologetics give them comfort.
Cult members might be fooled, but cult leaders aren’t stupid, they know what they’re doing. They’re targeting people who aren’t in religious schools, and don’t have religious indoctrination already, so there’s no effect on “leaving” the faith to consider here, any hooked student is a success.
Forcing students to read the Bible will create a loooooot more Atheists.
Forcing students to pretend to be Christian in order to get educational perks and avoid harsh discipline will create a lot more implicit segregation and cliches of Mean Girls who can harass non-confirming students with impunity.
Check out The Third Wave
