On the one hand, his ideology is more or less identical to Orban’s (he used to be a Fidesz party member until two tears ago).
On the other hand, he is somewhat EU friendly, supports Ukraine and, most importantly, is the head of a different party. 16 years of Fidesz rule is over. That’s not nothing.
He was known in the party as someone who disagreed on many decisions made by Orbán. He also stated it was not easy to leave and/or cut ties due to mafia-like behavior, fear of his or his family’s life. His wife was head of Ministry of Justice, which she was kicked out due to also going against Orbán’s wishes. pardoning a pedophile, and they divorced soon after.
You have to understand that Orbán is literally an oligarch with tons of money, ties to Russia and the underworld. Magyar only quite recently collected enough support (about 2 years ago I think) to start his own political movement.
Oh okay. I am not arguing with you, just wanted some insight about how other countries cover the Orbán disaster.
The pardon thing might just be a “find a scapegoat” scenario, in the Fidesz party that was a really popular solution to scandals. We will see how Magyar differs from Orbán, the bar is not high so we have hope things will get better.
I’d say it helps that Hungary being in the EU probably limited Orban going full dictator. The EU had been chastising Hungary. Withholding EU funds hurts Hungary quite a bit. This is a reason why the far right hates the EU and looking to dismantle it, with the help of their American friends.
What a bizarre statement. If I want to conserve social democracy, workers rights, unions, public infrastructure, etc. where as my political opponents want to ‘liberalise’ or downgrade them, that makes me a left-wing conservatist.
Conservatism is an ideology based on the idea of family-first policies, nationalism and religious values. You might as well claim that anarchism is anything that creates chaos or that liberalism is anything that makes you free. You have misunderstood what the word means in a political context.
Not a single social democrat in my country would ever call themselves conservative, even though they want to preserve the welfare state that the right is eroding. Only the right and the far right call themselves conservatives.
Within politics these words are still context dependent and used to describe all sorts of stances and are open to various interpretations. It’s an umbrella term. To claim otherwise is simply besides the facts. I know lots of leftwingers who call themselves conservative. About liberalism and anarchism, yes you might use those terms in those ways, and that is actually being done all the time.
In most of Europe, “liberal” means being in favor of free trade, and of unregulated capitalism in general. Conservative parties in many countries are called Liberals. Even in the UK Conservatives, there’s a strong liberal (by the above definition) faction, along with the racists, authoritarians and religious reactionaries (the last of which are a much smaller minority here than in the US).
What is even funnier to me is that it lists the Swedish party Liberalerna as a “Conservative Liberal” party. That party has voted 100% (not 99% or 98%, exactly identical) to Moderaterna, a conservative party, during this latest four-year period. Nobody is going to vote for them in the upcoming election because they are a fundamentally unnecessary party that just does whatever Moderaterna tells them to do.
Bernie Sanders is also a Democrat. Big parties, by definition, have people from all over the political spectrum inside.
I don’t know enough about him, but from what I read he is very different from Orban and his victory will be a case study for politicians all over the world that want to defeat Trumplike right wing politicians.
FPTP is the poison that turns a good idea into a farce. On the surface, it’s far simpler to explain and thus a better way to “ease” people unfamiliar with democracy into the concept without having to explain the more democratic, but also more complex options.
It should be an initial stage at best, from which a more democratic solution would be developed, but by the time the need for that becomes obvious, the emerging “main” parties have a vested interest in maintaining power.
I don’t have a perfect solution. Humans are complex and flawed and education can be difficult if the motivation isn’t obvious. But I think pushing for more representative systems should be a priority for any movement trying to redeem democratic systems.
Big parties in MMP and other proportional systems have ideologies and stick to their ideologies.
Not really because big parties get more seats. In a voting circle with less people there will only be 1 or 2 seats available for that circle, so, they will go either 2 for the gov party or 1 for the gov and 1 for the main opposition party.
Smaller parties will only elect seats in the capital or big cities, which means if you want to have a political career you choose the party that more or less aligns with you from the big ones.
On the one hand, his ideology is more or less identical to Orban’s (he used to be a Fidesz party member until two tears ago).
On the other hand, he is somewhat EU friendly, supports Ukraine and, most importantly, is the head of a different party. 16 years of Fidesz rule is over. That’s not nothing.
He was known in the party as someone who disagreed on many decisions made by Orbán. He also stated it was not easy to leave and/or cut ties due to mafia-like behavior, fear of his or his family’s life. His wife was head of Ministry of Justice, which she was kicked out
due to also going against Orbán’s wishes.pardoning a pedophile, and they divorced soon after.You have to understand that Orbán is literally an oligarch with tons of money, ties to Russia and the underworld. Magyar only quite recently collected enough support (about 2 years ago I think) to start his own political movement.
Can you provide a source for this please? I am a Hungarian and never heard of this.
She was kicked out because she gave an official pardon to a well known pedophile. They divorced after that.
They mentioned it in a Czech news podcast, so I’d link it to you, although I am not sure how useful that would be.
I’ve heard about the pardon, but not in direct relation to being kicked out because of that. Also sorry for my misinterpretation.
Oh okay. I am not arguing with you, just wanted some insight about how other countries cover the Orbán disaster. The pardon thing might just be a “find a scapegoat” scenario, in the Fidesz party that was a really popular solution to scandals. We will see how Magyar differs from Orbán, the bar is not high so we have hope things will get better.
I’d say it helps that Hungary being in the EU probably limited Orban going full dictator. The EU had been chastising Hungary. Withholding EU funds hurts Hungary quite a bit. This is a reason why the far right hates the EU and looking to dismantle it, with the help of their American friends.
Fidesz (Orban):
Tisza (Magyar):
I’ve heard this angle before, but these parties don’t seem to be in any way identical.
So like a Macron. Not great, but definitely an improvement.
“Conservative liberalism” is an oxymoron. Centre to centre-right means social liberalism and an acceptance/approval of the welfare state.
Conservatism of any kind is right to far-right.
What a bizarre statement. If I want to conserve social democracy, workers rights, unions, public infrastructure, etc. where as my political opponents want to ‘liberalise’ or downgrade them, that makes me a left-wing conservatist.
Conservatism is an ideology based on the idea of family-first policies, nationalism and religious values. You might as well claim that anarchism is anything that creates chaos or that liberalism is anything that makes you free. You have misunderstood what the word means in a political context.
Such a US view.
I’m Swedish.
Not a single social democrat in my country would ever call themselves conservative, even though they want to preserve the welfare state that the right is eroding. Only the right and the far right call themselves conservatives.
Within politics these words are still context dependent and used to describe all sorts of stances and are open to various interpretations. It’s an umbrella term. To claim otherwise is simply besides the facts. I know lots of leftwingers who call themselves conservative. About liberalism and anarchism, yes you might use those terms in those ways, and that is actually being done all the time.
Then you know lots of people who have no idea what they’re talking about.
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Funnily enough, the wikipedia page for conservative liberalism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_liberalism) lists Fidesz as the prime and only example of Hungarian conservative liberal parties.
In most of Europe, “liberal” means being in favor of free trade, and of unregulated capitalism in general. Conservative parties in many countries are called Liberals. Even in the UK Conservatives, there’s a strong liberal (by the above definition) faction, along with the racists, authoritarians and religious reactionaries (the last of which are a much smaller minority here than in the US).
What is even funnier to me is that it lists the Swedish party Liberalerna as a “Conservative Liberal” party. That party has voted 100% (not 99% or 98%, exactly identical) to Moderaterna, a conservative party, during this latest four-year period. Nobody is going to vote for them in the upcoming election because they are a fundamentally unnecessary party that just does whatever Moderaterna tells them to do.
In 2026 I take what I can get. And I am damn glad for it!
Bernie Sanders is also a Democrat. Big parties, by definition, have people from all over the political spectrum inside.
I don’t know enough about him, but from what I read he is very different from Orban and his victory will be a case study for politicians all over the world that want to defeat Trumplike right wing politicians.
Big parties in FPTP and other non-proportional systems have people from all over the political spectrum.
Big parties in MMP and other proportional systems have ideologies and stick to their ideologies.
Bernie Sanders would never be in the same party as Joe Biden in a proportionally representative democracy.
FPTP is the poison that turns a good idea into a farce. On the surface, it’s far simpler to explain and thus a better way to “ease” people unfamiliar with democracy into the concept without having to explain the more democratic, but also more complex options.
It should be an initial stage at best, from which a more democratic solution would be developed, but by the time the need for that becomes obvious, the emerging “main” parties have a vested interest in maintaining power.
I don’t have a perfect solution. Humans are complex and flawed and education can be difficult if the motivation isn’t obvious. But I think pushing for more representative systems should be a priority for any movement trying to redeem democratic systems.
FPTP is crap, but all electoral systems can be gamed and can produce anomalous and antidemocratic results in various edge cases.
True. That’s why education and critical thinking is vital to maintaining a healthy democracy.
Not really because big parties get more seats. In a voting circle with less people there will only be 1 or 2 seats available for that circle, so, they will go either 2 for the gov party or 1 for the gov and 1 for the main opposition party.
Smaller parties will only elect seats in the capital or big cities, which means if you want to have a political career you choose the party that more or less aligns with you from the big ones.