Do any genuine DPRK defenders have sources or statistics to help me break my brainwashing or whatever because all I have ever seen are reasons to oppose and people saying yeah but what if that’s not actually true.
Some introductory de-brainwashing links:
- Is north korea a totalitarian dictatorship? Are they all really required to get the same haircut? A short documentary.
- South Korea boosts reward for defectors to $860k USD.
- Are north korean defectors really paid to lie by the south? A short documentary.
- What is everyday life like? A conversation with a North Korean Citizen.
Thanks for the links. I’m curious if you see North Korea as an actual positive example of state governance or socialism, or if you simply mean to point out certain specific myths?
The haircut video is an interesting demonstration of how state-run media spreads falsehoods, but overall it’s really more of an indictment of America than a defense of North Korea. South Korea paying people makes sense, I never really gave defectors too much credence anyway. The interview is interesting but I wish it were longer and more in-depth.
The DPRK is a success story, they succeeded in defeating both the Japanese and US imperialists (despite the US killing 1/5 of their citizens), fought the US comprador government to a standstill (which still serves as a US military base and carries out attacks and propaganda against the DPRK), and made it through the incredibly hard period of the 90s (the arduous march) after the fall of the USSR.
Socialism can take on many forms, all of which can’t be divorced from the historical context in which they arose. Other comrades can give some deep dives into the DPRK’s governance system, which can show how it’s far more democratic than the capitalist dictatorship in the south.
We should all admire the DPRK for standing up to the US empire, and debunk the lies told about it first and foremost. Liberals tend to think its mordor or something, when in reality its a country where ppl go to work and live regular lives like any other.
Point taken that they overcame adversity and that there is propaganda against them. To be fair, that can be said to varying degrees about a lot of countries.
Everyone has reasons to do propaganda but if you’re mostly exposed to western media then it’s definitely a good idea to fact check everything they say about their geopolitical enemies, because they’re always gonna be slandered to hell and even in countries with actual problematic leadership the idea isn’t to uncritically defend them but just push back against narratives that will never serve the people in those countries regardless
Fair enough. The original meme seems to suggest, though, not just that people are subject to propaganda, but that North Korea is, in fact, good.
What does good mean here? That’s a very vague idea by which to classify entire societies, it would probably serve our understanding better to have more concrete criteria. For example, I would say the continued existence of the DPRK has had a net positive effect on the development of the global south: their development under seige has created a blueprint for other countries to examine, they counterbalance the power of imperial vassals in the region such as Japan, and the military deterrence they provide against US aggression has most likely saved a lot of lives.
if your attention span has been ruined by social media like mine is; madeline pendelton does short form videos that touches on it and she backs it up with a linktree full of sources and north korea seems to be her favorite topic. she’s also on almost all of the social media platforms and you should be aware that her videos comment are mostly filled with hate from brainwashed people.
she also does a twich channel where she goes over the current news and explains the propaganda in it; i watch it everyday.
here’s the most recent video of hers that i shared: https://www.tiktok.com/@madeline_pendleton/video/7610963982198770975
Stopped reading and Madeline Pendelton. I dont trust people who are racist.
leftists aren’t racists; that’s only liberals and conservatives.
Im not generalizing. Im talking specifically about Pendleton.
so am i and pendelton is not racist
Her crashout against Xtian Divine on tiktok was plenty of proof that she’s a racist person.
google can’t even find this xtian divine person; so post your source instead of baseless accusations, but don’t bother if it’s a carefully stitched, out-of-context talking points.
Thanks for the link. The source doesn’t really pass the sniff test, though. Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
From the Article 63 of this 2015 criminal law document:
A citizen who has committed an act of treason against the state, such as by betraying the State and escaping to another country or surrendering, defecting or giving over secrets, shall be sentenced to a term of reform through labour of more than 5 years. In particularly grave cases, he or she shall be sentenced to life-term of reform through labour or to the death penalty and confiscation of property.
This doesn’t sound like a law only applied to violent criminals.
Take, for example, the claim that North Koreans are permitted to leave the country.
They absolutely are. I met more than one during my many years in university.
betraying the State and escaping
You very clearly misread this. It’s a crime to commit treason and then escape. AND. “escaping” to another country is not a crime.
Do you have a take on 2 and 3
I know you didn’t ask but 3 and 4 seem normal to me defecting during wartime and espionage are punished everywhere on Earth for a reason it makes them no better or worse than any other country.
As for surrender I have a feeling it’s a purposely unflattering translation whose real meaning is likely more inline with international norms such as
Article 99 of the UCMJ
Section 2 of the Armed Forces Act 2006
Section 74 of the National Defence Act
Section 15 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982
Section 34 of the Army Act 1950
and so on.
Are you suggesting that these laws only apply during active service in the military?
No that’s not at all what I said.
if you look at the links in the video, you would see that several organizations; including the UN; has made up shit about north korea.
also, it’s bonkers that you would use the same organization that condemned iran for defending itself and has slow walked justice for the gaza genocides for decades.
if you refuse to look beyond western sources, you’re going to be stuck being brainwashed for the rest of your life.
I am totally open to looking beyond western sources. Do you have a link to a non-western translation of North Korean criminal law?
it’s in her linktree; the video says so.
did you even watch the video? because it’s starting to feel like you’re being willfully ignorant here.
Genuinely, I do not see that in her linktree. She links to this document for information about North Korea: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fPJjTYGBo4QRuafFkbWTA8imbpr-QP3tD_946Yv_v3A/edit?tab=t.0
I do not see a translation of North Korean criminal law in the document.
she doing her live stream on twich right now as she does almost every day; ask her for this specific one.
I think I found the original on https://www.unilaw.go.kr/bbs/selectBoardList.do?bbsId=BBSMSTR_000000000021&bbsSubId=008 (number 5 “형법”)
While I meant to try and figure out translating it literally, it has turned out more difficult than I had hoped. So if any korean understanders would like to check it instead, here is the specific article:
제63조 (조국반역죄)
공민이 조국을 배반하고 다른 나라로 도망쳤거나 투항, 변절하였거나 비밀을 넘겨준것과 같은 조국반역행위를 한 경우에는 5년이상의 로동교화형에 처한다. 정상이 특히 무거운 경우에는 무기로동교화형 또는 사형 및 재산몰수형에 처한다.edit
“공민” meaning “citizen,” suffixed with “이” probably marking the the noun as the subject.
“조국” meaning “motherland,” suffixed with “을” “indicates the future intention of the subject.”
“배반” means “betrayal, treachery, [or] treason,” suffixed with “하고” meaning “and” or “with.”
“다른” means “different, [or] other.”
“나라” means “country,” suffixed with “로” meaning “to, [or] toward.”
It is presumably “도망쳤거” although wiktionary does not contain such an entry. Wiktionary does have some entries starting with “도망” that all mean “to flee, to escape.” Presumably suffixed with “나” I think meaning “or”
“투항” meaning “surrender”So a very literal translation might be something like “citizen(subject) motherland(to be done) betrayal-and other country-toward flee-or surrender” … and then the rest which this is more effort than I can.
No one in the history of discourse has cited being a free thinker as why they thought ill of North Korea.
While generally true that people rarely argue from the position of being a freethinker as a vocal core of their argument. What is not rare, however, is the habit of many calling anyone who points out that English sphere narratives about the DPRK are manufactured nonsense brainwashed. To label someone brainwashed on a given issue rests on the presupposition that you yourself are not. It assumes you operate as a free thinker. This posture persists even while their views align almost entirely with propaganda generated and circulated by the imperialist hegemon against an ideological enemy they remain at war with. Claiming intellectual immunity while repeating hegemonic talking points with little to no evidence (The core of the joke.).
Oh wow I guess no one has ever in the history of discourse accused someone of being in an echo chamber for being to the left of Bernie Sanders
Hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer is bad.
Very intelligent person: “Heh did SOCIETY tell you that?”
In this case hitting yourself in the dick with a hammer is analagous to crippling your ability to understand the world by thoughtlessly swallowing the Epstein Empire’s propaganda about other countries you’ve never seen or been to. So yes, it is bad and yes, your society did tell you to do it.
It’s gobsmacking how every time these kinds of people have refused to open their eyes, finally had them forced open (eg couldn’t ignore/deny/whitewash material facts) continue to uncritically, without serious investigation (outside the same Western sources) continue to deny/ignore/whitewash everything else leftists try to tell the world. They are actively harming humanity by suppressing the truth just because they can’t accept it.
You don’t even have to do anything but look at their own propaganda to realize something is up. the way they praise Kim jong un is creepy
In the cartoon squirrel and hedgehog they portray one of the characters being a child soldier as a good thing the overall message of the show is that you should always be willing to sacrifice yourself for your country (despite this cartoon being propaganda it’s pretty good give it a watch)
I don’t understand DPRK Stans.
I don’t disagree that the personality cult around the Kim’s is a troubling part of the DPRK’s political culture, I don’t think that kind of thing is necessarily conducive to a healthy democracy. But, this is a country that has been forcibly chopped in half, bombed so much that people were forced to live in caves, and has been cut off from the global economy by US sanctions.
If you expect a country to endure that without issues, then you’re crazy. If you want to end that cult of personality, you should be advocating for an end to sanctions, and end to the Korean War, the removal of US military bases and an internationally mediated settlement between North and South Korea about what the peninsula’s future might look like.
“If you believe The Official Story about everything that happens, then you’re not thinking, you’re repeating. If the only thing you question is the questioners, then you’re not an individual with your own mind, you are an enforcer of the status quo.” Caitlin Johnstone
North korea is a great country, and anyone who thinks differently belongs in the gulag
Yeah, everybody in North Korea says it’s great!
Yes, it’s better for they health and those from their families to do so and to love their leader, same as in the US.
You have been banned from [REDACTED]
